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[mert]

Hi guys

Was going to get Delos in December, since then I changed scopes, I'm now looking at the 24mm Panoptic, does anyone own one?

Thanks

Sent mobile

[Moonshane]

not now but it's one of two eyepieces I really regret selling, the other being a 11mm TV Plossl. for me it's the best 1.25" wide field eyepiece you can buy. certainly the best I have ever tried.

[John]

I agree with Shane - the 24mm Panoptic is a really superb eyepiece. It was definitely one of the best 1.25" eyepieces I've used but I've not used a Delos so far.....

[Damo636]

Like the guys above, I have also owned the 24 Panoptic & would have to agree with both, its a superp optic!

[crazyjedi]

The 24mm Panoptic is something of a legend! Apparently offering the widest fov in a 1.25 inch barrel and sharp optics.

I was hankering after one for many months until finally plumping for the ES 68 degree 24mm as I just could not afford the price of a new Pan and found them to be extremely rare on the second hand marketplace. I doubt you'll hear a bad word said about the 24mm Pan

[Space Dragon]

I use a pair of them in Binoviewers and they are great EPs. The field stop is 27mm which is the widest for a 1.25". Pin sharp stars out to the edge and very comfortable to use.

The only thing is the rubber eye guards, they are nice and soft but are made of the kind of rubber that dust sticks to easily, I replaced mine with some winged ones.

Having said that, a lot of people say that the ES 68º 24mm is just as good but have been out of stock for ages in the USA, you may find them in Europe.

In short, you can't go wrong with a 24mm Pan and they retain their value well.

[crazyjedi]

I use a pair of them in Binoviewers and they are great EPs. The field stop is 27mm which is the widest for a 1.25". Pin sharp stars out to the edge and very comfortable to use.

The only thing is the rubber eye guards, they are nice and soft but are made of the kind of rubber that dust sticks to easily, I replaced mine with some winged ones.

Having said that, a lot of people say that the ES 68º 24mm is just as good but have been out of stock for ages in the USA, you may find them in Europe.

In short, you can't go wrong with a 24mm Pan and they retain their value well.

It would be good to do a side by side comparison of the 24mm ES 68 deg vs the TV Pan.

I rate my ES 24mm very highly but the Panoptic has always been the gold standard in most peoples eyes for the 24mm focal length in a 1.25 inch barrel. It would be good to see if the young pretender can truely match the old master in performance

[Space Dragon]

It would be good to do a side by side comparison of the 24mm ES 68 deg vs the TV Pan.

I rate my ES 24mm very highly but the Panoptic has always been the gold standard in most peoples eyes for the 24mm focal length in a 1.25 inch barrel. It would be good to see if the young pretender can truely match the old master in performance

Well somebody on CN did an in depth test of EPs in that focal length and in his opinion the ES came out on top of the Panoptic. I had to go for the Pan because of the tapered design, it allows for a narrow IPD and allows clearance for the nose. Some people can use the wider ES.

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2729

[Space Dragon]

Having said that, the Pan in the tests he used may have been an older model and it's thought Televue update the coatings at regular intervals and if he'd used a more recent one, the results may have been different.

[crazyjedi]

Having said that, the Pan in the tests he used may have been an older model and it's thought Televue update the coatings at regular intervals and if he'd used a more recent one, the results may have been different.

Could well be.

The other problem with some of the reviews that I have read is that they can at worst be too subjective or at best include too many variables.

That said I'd be suprised if there was a great deal of difference between the two lenses myself. If it turns out that the ES offering does in fact edge the contest then it makes the ES lens a bargain buy as it cost me around half the price of a Panoptic

[Space Dragon]

Could well be.

The other problem with some of the reviews that I have read is that they can at worst be too subjective or at best include too many variables.

That said I'd be suprised if there was a great deal of difference between the two lenses myself. If it turns out that the ES offering does in fact edge the contest then it makes the ES lens a bargain buy as it cost me around half the price of a Panoptic

You may have seen the results of a test where someone put Televue and ES EPs through an X-Ray and it revealed that the inner workings were in effect the same.

And yes, it can only be a good thing that ES can produce these at such a relatively low cost but I bet it won't stop Televue from putting up their prices again.

They know there will always be mugs like me to buy them.

[John]

You may have seen the results of a test where someone put Televue and ES EPs through an X-Ray and it revealed that the inner workings were in effect the same.

And yes, it can only be a good thing that ES can produce these at such a relatively low cost but I bet it won't stop Televue from putting up their prices again.

They know there will always be mugs like me to buy them.

Tele Vue have only had one price rise in 6 years I believe.

[Space Dragon]

Tele Vue have only had one price rise in 6 years I believe.

Which would suggest they were insanely expensive to begin with

Put it this way.......I can't see them cutting their prices to match ES

[alan potts]

Fabtasic eyepiece in every way. I have a good number of Televues and where this 24mm Panoptic takes the biscuit is in it weight and size, We can argue till the cows come home about the others being better, sharper or more contrast, but for me where it wins is it is compact. I have had the Meade 24mm SWA and it is lighter and smaller. It is an eyepiece that will always be sort after of that I am sure, mine is not and never will be for sale.

Alan Potts top tip buy one! you know it make sense.

Space Dragon, why should they cut there prices they are better. I know a number of site members that have had faulty ExSc eyepieces.

Alan.

[crazyjedi]

Fabtasic eyepiece in every way. I have a good number of Televues and where this 24mm Panoptic takes the biscuit is in it weight and size, We can argue till the cows come home about the others being better, sharper or more contrast, but for me where it wins is it is compact. I have had the Meade 24mm SWA and it is lighter and smaller. It is an eyepiece that will always be sort after of that I am sure, mine is not and never will be for sale.

Alan Potts top tip buy one! you know it make sense.

Space Dragon, why should they cut there prices they are better. I know a number of site members that have had faulty ExSc eyepieces.

Alan.

Yes I have seen a couple of comments in passing that mentioned having to return ES 82 deg EP's...... Worrying.

Thankfully not had a single bad experience myself though.

[John]

Which would suggest they were insanely expensive to begin with

Put it this way.......I can't see them cutting their prices to match ES

If they were not worth their price folks simply would not buy them. Astronomers are shrewd people generally and can see through hype pretty easily and forums like this spread the word quickly.

[Space Dragon]

Fabtasic eyepiece in every way. I have a good number of Televues and where this 24mm Panoptic takes the biscuit is in it weight and size, We can argue till the cows come home about the others being better, sharper or more contrast, but for me where it wins is it is compact. I have had the Meade 24mm SWA and it is lighter and smaller. It is an eyepiece that will always be sort after of that I am sure, mine is not and never will be for sale.

Alan Potts top tip buy one! you know it make sense.

Space Dragon, why should they cut there prices they are better. I know a number of site members that have had faulty ExSc eyepieces.

Alan.

Alan, I don't think they should drop their prices, although I did have to take a deep breath before pulling the trigger on two 24mm Pans

It's obvious TV put a lot of this money back into R&D and I hope they continue to innovate.

And from this innovation of course came the compact and light 24mm which is tailor made for binos, like no other 68º in that focal length.

And all ES have done is copy TV.

However if ES continue to build a reputation, TV may be forced to think about their pricing to stay in the game.

I agree about the size and weight, that was the deciding factor.

[crazyjedi]

I think you would need to have your nose removed to use two ES 24mm in a binoviewer

[Space Dragon]

I think you would need to have your nose removed to use two ES 24mm in a binoviewer

I know......some people somehow do manage to use them, the 20mm isn't much smaller, but the 16mm are doable.

[mert]

Thanks for all the replies, I think I'm sold, I would have loved the 22mm Nagler but I've spent enough on equipment recently. I've read reviews where people say the 24mm sits in the scope most of the time.

[Dunkster]

By some freak occurrence, I now have both in my possession... long story !

I've only had a chance to use the Panoptic so far, what with the weather and all. The Panoptic is slightly smaller and lighter, but there's not a huge amount in it ... but I'm used to ES82 sizes.

I don't think you can go far wrong with the Panoptic, money aside. Lovely pin sharp star field in my little frac, but I'd expect nothing less from TV The ES is meant to be exceptional too, if you can find one. Not sure I can justify both in my collection, but the the weather doesn't seem to be favouring a comparison anytime soon and I'd expect my little frac to be more discerning than my small SCT

[alan potts]

Mert,

Even though I have many focal lenghts I tend to use the 20mm Nagler the most, so almost in agreement with you.

Space Dragon, Yes I agree ExSc have grown fast but I am sure you know to copy is cheap and easy and they are not exact copies in any case. We wiil have to see what happens. Now though we are seeing them do some R&D themselves with the 5.5mm 9mm and 25mm in the 100 plus degree line. Going back to problems, I had a 6.7mm Meade made by the same Factory as ExSc and that had a very serious fault with glue between to elements, I never saw it because I never used it, didn't see it when checked it before I sold it and had to give the guy his money back. QA costs money and this is now of little importance to many Companies. The Company I used to work for once had 17 QA staff on 2 sites, now there are 2, and that is in the UK.

Anyway by what you say you have some Televue eyepiece and as John said there has only been 1 price hike in 6 years which is not too bad.

Alan.

[Dunkster]

I think that's a little harsh at best, unfair at worst Alan!

FYI copying precision manufactured objects and reproducing them to an acceptable standard isn't as easy as we might be led to believe. And while the x-rays of the ES100 vs Ethos were somewhat damning, there's been no such evidence that the ES82, 68, etc were cut from a plaster cast, so please give them a little more consideration if you have no personal experience. If anything, the ES are close family members. And I don't even think I'm deluding myself. We might never know, but without evidence all we have is speculation.

Also, it's impossible to draw conclusions such that just because (at one point) ES and Meade EPs were/are made at the same factory, that they undergo the same level of quality control. Unlikely, due to a common process in manufacturing called bin splitting. If you are manufacturing the same product for multiple clients, you draw up contracts based on the expected yields and tolerances of the items being produced, and during quality control these are separated (split, into bins) according to what the clients have agreed to (1) pay for and (2) accept. In some cases, the yields and/or tolerances are better than expected and every client wins. However, it constitutes a breach of contract to supply a substandard product to a client with a product that fails to meet the agreed quality. Now, that's not to say it is actually achieved, but that is a matter for the parties involved. We will probably never know the parameters/details of the contracts between JOC, Meade and ES.

So, please - can we try to remain objective rather than quoting speculation as fact - only through our own experimentation and experiences can we really judge the quality of ANY of these items. I am not saying this to defend the ES range that I currently have - I am happy with them for what I paid, that's enough for me - and my sig doesn't sufficiently reflect the green-lettered collection I seem to be accumulating However, we need to remain as faithful as we can to guide and assist others in making the right choice for them - not everyone has TV in the budget - and in this case, the ES 24mm is rated very highly up against the Panoptic by a reputable source.

[alan potts]

Dunkster,

Ok then I agree, Cheaper may have been better on it's own Sorry if I upset any ExSc owners but it is true that there are problems that have come out the JOC factory and the Meade versions of these eyepiece cost more when they were first put to market.

Alan.

[Dunkster]

LOL, not sure about upsetting Alan, paying 1/3 the cost I'd really hope there is a difference between them (if anyone expects TV perfection at 1/3 cost then...), but ultimately we just need to keep it real, it's our responsibility I'd love the opportunity to all get together to road test all these beasties, preferably somewhere warm what with all the snow falling here

As is often the case with production runs, the yields and therefore cost to manufacture improves through the life cycle. Maybe that's what happened here with JOC. On the other hand, reports from over the pond claim the UWA and ES82 at very least use different coatings, but I don't have both in comparable focal lengths to tell the difference ahhh if only I had deeper pockets

Aside: Apple users/owners are often said to be under the "reality distortion field", but it was beginning to sound like TV owners are/were too (<ducks>)