Debayering a DSLR's Bayer matrix.

[Luis Campos]

Hello all,

Good to hear from you that are getting there with debayer, Gina very glad this one is working, keep it up! Pixueto, you're wellcome mate, that Ha image looks great to me, now you just need a cooling system to do very long subs with no noise

From my side, I made another 350D sensor, this time all went well, not a single scratch on this one, I used the wooden tool and a great deal of patience, still some very small particles to clean but as i'm doing also a TEC cooling system for this camera I will dismantle it again and give it a good clean up

Here goes "first light":

Today I'm gonna try my luck on a 450D camera, I have some good friends that's are helping me out with this, some are willing to sacrifice their cameras to get a mono sensor...can't promisse anything though, we will see if I can do this one

Cheers,

Luís

[Gina]

Great image Luis

[pixueto]

Hi Gina,

How exactly are you removing the CFA? are you using a scraping tool at all or is it the ajax on a cotton bud?

I'd suggest caution with the bud cause you could easily knick those wires cause its broad, and you won't be able to get to the edges.

as for removing the cover glass, yes you use pressure with a small screwdriver or blade inward slowly till it gets white right to the inside of the frame and you contnue around.

one of the guys in IIS took a 350D sensor, scraped away the edges of the glass, apparently that removed the glue at the sides, and then was able to remove the glass the same way, that is pressure inward till it turned white and removed the glass in one piece.

i think that's the first time anyone's taken off a 350d intact. but I might try that as well although I know the glue doesn't bleed off the glass edges.

with testing the sensor at various stages, isn't that risking the ribbon cable connectors? i flipped one on the 350d and the clip came off. couldn't put it back.

wish all the ribbon cables were the slide in type like the 600d.

good luck.

Alistair

Gina, Alistair is right. It isn't advisable to open your camera so many times. The black/brown plastic hinges locking the ribbon cables in place are very weak and they are prone to breaking when you release and lock the cables a few times.

Edited September 1, 2013 by pixueto

[Gina]

Some more debayering... This time I'm using a cut down sensor swab. I cut it down in width and length as I found it too flexible at the original length. I removed the cloth to cut the plastic down in length and reattached it with a rubber band - crude but effective Here's a couple of photos against a background of stripboard with 0.1" hole spacing to show scale.

So now to the results of a bit more CFA removal.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Gina

[Gina]

THE END

[Tf2k]

*screams in pain* noooo..... can't be... Gina, i am so sorry.

[pixueto]

Oh no! I'm so sorry Gina.

[Tf2k]

Just something for the knowledge database:

ATA scrubbing powder has a micron size of round about 50 micron.

Does a good job on the first layers of the CFA, but for polishing i would go for something more softer.

Got a hand on a NEX 3 and a Nikon D80.

I know the Nex3 from my Infrared Conversion.

<-- got mad, debayering everything with a APS-C Sensor, should get some positive results some time... to legitimate my actions.

[pixueto]

Alistair, are you sure you want to process those files? I mean, the noise in the 20 minute subs was horrendous. Also, they are each very big files! I'm showing you attached the jpeg files right from the camera. The camera has surely applied some demosicing but it will help you get an idea of the noise with the lights, darls and offset frames, as well as the state of the sensor with the flat frames.

However, I think IRIS dis a pretty good job and I'll be using it in the future. Thank you Luis.

[Chris]

oh Gina Your one of the most tenacious people I've come across but is there a limit? You've passed my limit and I take my hat off to you for it I've got my stripped down 300D infront of me and I'm staring at the cover glass thinking errmm maybe I should look at cooling instead.

hope your ok?

Chris

[pixueto]

Just something for the knowledge database:

ATA scrubbing powder has a micron size of round about 50 micron.

Does a good job on the first layers of the CFA, but for polishing i would go for something more softer.

Got a hand on a NEX 3 and a Nikon D80.

I know the Nex3 from my Infrared Conversion.

<-- got mad, debayering everything with a APS-C Sensor, should get some positive results some time... to legitimate my actions.

What about the dichloroethane you were using before? Wouldn't that remove the CFA on the CCD sensor in the nikon 80D?

[pixueto]

Hello all,

Good to hear from you that are getting there with debayer, Gina very glad this one is working, keep it up! Pixueto, you're wellcome mate, that Ha image looks great to me, now you just need a cooling system to do very long subs with no noise

From my side, I made another 350D sensor, this time all went well, not a single scratch on this one, I used the wooden tool and a great deal of patience, still some very small particles to clean but as i'm doing also a TEC cooling system for this camera I will dismantle it again and give it a good clean up

Here goes "first light":

http://www.flickr.co...N08/9633235880/

Today I'm gonna try my luck on a 450D camera, I have some good friends that's are helping me out with this, some are willing to sacrifice their cameras to get a mono sensor...can't promisse anything though, we will see if I can do this one

Cheers,

Luís

Luis, could you please advise on the ISO and sub length you used for that wonderful photo of the Eagle nebula in H-alpha with your first debayered 350D?

Thanks

[Tf2k]

My Dichlormethane "Carbon and Paint Stripper" did a good work on my two Nikon D40 Sensors (both dead anyway, went too deep while scraping, the other got smashed removing the cover glass).

5 minutes after the application of the Dichlormethane, the CFA is really soft and much of it can be easy to remove with a q-tip.

BUT it leaves some traces of the CFA, which are not so easy to remove with a second application of dichlormethane or my cherrywood tool. (one possible explaination: the tool is used directly after the dichlormethane, so the wet wood does not scrape enough).

In my opinion, i don't get away so easily with just using Dichlormethane.

The Dichlormethane Method works also on the NEX-3 Sensor (CMOS), just tried it.

The Nikon D80 is the next in the row...

[pixueto]

Here is the link to the Tiff file from the stack of three lights (20 minutes each) with the H-alpha 7nm filter, ISO 800. In the stack there also are 9 flats, 9 bias and 9 darks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mstmdpi9tbrk0y/NarrowbandTest.tif

[pixueto]

My Dichlormethane "Carbon and Paint Stripper" did a good work on my two Nikon D40 Sensors (both dead anyway, went too deep while scraping, the other got smashed removing the cover glass).

5 minutes after the application of the Dichlormethane, the CFA is really soft and much of it can be easy to remove with a q-tip.

BUT it leaves some traces of the CFA, which are not so easy to remove with a second application of dichlormethane or my cherrywood tool. (one possible explaination: the tool is used directly after the dichlormethane, so the wet wood does not scrape enough).

In my opinion, i don't get away so easily with just using Dichlormethane.

The Dichlormethane Method works also on the NEX-3 Sensor (CMOS), just tried it.

The Nikon D80 is the next in the row...

Thank you. How do you apply the dichlormethane?

Why would be so easy to remove most of the cfa with dichlormethane but not the leftovers? Any possible explanation?

[pixueto]

Alistair, here is the link to the original raw files you wanted to process:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/knygb2tb7e9jky9/PAmW2n58wF

[Tf2k]

to be precise, i only use a spray which contains dichlormethane and some other additions.

its a very viscous spray, which is like foam after applied, so i spray it on the sensor and wait for a little time.

In my opinion, it could be that the leftovers react in the wrong way with the spray.

So that we have a small timeframe, in which we can remove everything, when we leave this timeframe, the CFA "hardens".

Contents of the spray, (from a german safety datasheet):

Dichlormethan 50%-100%

Propan 10-25%

Methanol 1-10%

Toluol 1-10%

[Gina]

Drat my post has just disappeared Have to start again - groan

[Gina]

Thank you everyone for you "condolenses". It wasn't exactly unexpected. But the way it happened was - there was a stray strand sticking out from the cloth on the removal tool that touched the fine wires. You can see the broken wires in the photo.

[Gina]

oh Gina Your one of the most tenacious people I've come across but is there a limit? You've passed my limit and I take my hat off to you for it I've got my stripped down 300D infront of me and I'm staring at the cover glass thinking errmm maybe I should look at cooling instead.

hope your ok?

Chris

Yes, I'm alright, thank you Chris And thank you for your comment on my tenaciousness I think I must be totally mad spending all that money on cameras purely for research into debayering just so that I have a better chance of success with an 1100D sensor. OTOH I may be able to sell off some of the parts and recoup some of the cost.

As for debayering or cooling, I think debayering would be pointless unless you have a well cooled camera. Cooling to -10C or maybe -15C makes an enormous difference to DSLRs. Cooling isn't without it's problems though - conquering the damp/dew/condensation problem is no small matter as I found myself.

[Gina]

My experience with the 1000D sensors has provided quite a lot of information One thing in particular - "stop while you're ahead" I think that I can avoid those dreaded fine wires as long as I don't go too close and watch out for rogue fibres. I've decided that I shall leave a margin around the area of CFA removal on the 1100D sensor and use 1.25" filters with it. OK so I won't be getting the full very large sensor area but it will be much bigger than my Atik cameras. There's a possibility of a second widefield imaging rig But the my main aim of all this is to show it can be done and that I can do it

[Zakalwe]

Would it be possible to make some sort of protective "screen" that could be clamped over the sensor to shield these wires from damage?

[Gina]

I wondered that but one slip and a whole row of wires will be gone. However, it's an idea worth re-considering. Thinking about it I'm wondering if a jig with hinged arms might be possible. Something that could take the sensor, maybe using its fixing holes. I'll give it some thought.

Thank you for suggesting it Mark

He he, another little project

Edited September 1, 2013 by Gina

[JamesF]

I had at one point considered the viability of a "scraper" or cleaning arm driven across the sensor by a screw thread (or a pair, working at right angles to each other. Such an arrangement might be quite a faff to rig up, but could well help with keeping the connection wires safe.

James

[Gina]

I'm going to have a go at the "fences" idea. A jig to hold the sensor and either arms or a frame to hinge down with "fences" that just clear the sensor (or covered with tape to protect the sensor). I have plenty of scrap sensors to play with BTW, I'm still waiting for the non-working 1100D to arrive!