Traveling with my 127mm Mak (Ryanair)

[rodrigol]

I'm planing a trip to the south and really want to take my 127mm SLT with me. However, I've look all over the place for a suitable carrier or bag. I've looked into specialists, but they charge too much for too little. I've also looked into DIY stores, such as B&Q. Can any of you please provide advice for traveling by air (ryanair!) with a scope?

R:)

[angusb1]

I wrapped my 90mm mak in bubble wrap and put it in a rucksack. There was room for my EPs and a couple of books.

[Naz]

What is the weight of the scope? RyanAir are strict on weights, also, do not consider taking it as hold baggage, unless you want it damaged. If they handle baggage at all their destinations the way they do at Stansted, you can be sure that it may not survive the flight.

[tjr]

Maplins' flight cases look pretty good and have been recommended before. They come with foam inserts that you can cut to fit the scope.

[russ.will]

Enjoy.

http://youtu.be/OISGykO6Z7U

Russell

[LukeSkywatcher]

My best advice is do not ever travel with Ryanair. When i fly.................i pay the extra to fly in comfort with Aer Lingus. I hang my 70mm travelscope to my wheelchair and i bring it onboard as my hand luggage.

[JonH]

I avoid Ryanair like the plague but if you have already booked your flight, make sure that whatever case/bag you buy for your scope falls within the airline's carry-on size restrictions. Also check the cabin baggage weight allowance. Good luck!

[Naz]

My best advice is do not ever travel with Ryanair. When i fly.................i pay the extra to fly in comfort with Aer Lingus. I hang my 70mm travelscope to my wheelchair and i bring it onboard as my hand luggage.

Sorry Luke, you are still giving your money to Ryanair http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/df47055e-95de-11e1-a163-00144feab49a.html#axzz1tyXX4WRC

Ryanair are the major shareholders:eek:

[Carbon Brush]

My experience of flying generally is that any hold baggage has to be really really well packed. I means lot and lots of packing around the hard breakable bits.

A glance out of the windows while waiting for flights will usually show cases being thrown off a truck onto a conveyor, sometimes via the (not always near) floor.

Don't forget that anything in the hold will be subject to serious pressure reductions. On a long flight it will encounter extremely sub zero temperatures.

My experience of budget airlines is that you need watch both cabin and hold baggage limits very carefully.

Once with Ryanair, they grumbled that my suitcase bound for the hold has grown to 15.5Kg on the trip. That was 0.5Kg over the limit and they wanted me to pay an excess charge.

On cabin baggage the same 'weightwatchers' precautions apply. But the size and weight restrictions vary by airline.

Take WRITTEN evidence of the their web site posting with you. I have had to argue a few times about both cabin and hold allowances. Printouts from their literature sorted it every time. A tape measure in your pocket/flight bag helps.

I was though told a nice story to get back at the penny pinching airlines.

A friend had bought two cabin bags on wheels for himsel and his wife. Don't know where the confusion came but when the bags were put into the airlines size cage at the desk, the wheels (just) exceeded the limit. They were told the bags would have to go in the hold and cost hundreds of pounds. The irate but resourceful passenger went out of the terminal building with the intention of getting a taxi to the local B&Q to buy a hacksaw and remove the excess wheels! Yes all this was much cheaper than paying the rip off excess baggage charges. As it happened there were building works going on just outside the terminal building and a kind workman lent him a saw.

On return to the terminal building , they dragged their heavy bags, on the stumps of the wheel fixings, up to the check in desk. The cases were accepted without extra charge. Looking back, they saw two sets of gouge marks from the doors to the check in desk.

[ollypenrice]

Your telescope came from China by air, in the hold of a ship or a plane. If you pack it carefully in a hard, very well shock-insulated box (which you can make out of ply) it should be fine. I've flown scopes that way. Damian Peach flies his C14 to Barbados to take the best planetary images in the world. I've flown around sixty times all over the world with my bicycle. I think the airlines are pretty nasty but I also think there is a bit of hysteria creeping in here.

Olly

[pete_l]

I fly Ryanair a lot, they aren't any worse than any other carrier (so long as the plane turns up). However they are strict about oversize/overweight hand luggage. If your packed scope won't fit within their restrictions either it goes in the hold or you don't fly - there's no third option.

So far as hold baggage goes, that's purely the domain of the ground staff at the airports. Ryanair luggage is treated no better or worse than any other carriers - it's all handled in the same way by the same airport employees.

However, Ryanair flights do tend to pack 'em in. Most flights are pretty solidly booked and because they charge so much extra for checked luggage a lot (including me) of pax only travel with hand luggage. Now the overhead lockers on flights aren't nearly big enough to accommodate a max-sized bag for every seat. There just isn't room. So anything you put in an overhead locker has to be able to withstand getting crushed as the cabin staff try to force that last wheeled case into a space far too small for it - and some of those people could push a grapefruit up a hosepipe as the saying goes.

[rodrigol]

I'm really grateful for all the advice. I'm still not quite sure if I will take the 127 with me for fear of having it crushed. It would be a shame not to, as the sky there promises a better show than we've had in the UK for the past weeks. I'm considering packing the tripod in a semi hard suitcase with all our clothes in and around it. Then, the GOTO in one hand luggage roller and the scope in another. It should fit and be within acceptable limits. I still need to test. Will let you know...and potentially post a couple of pics.

[E621Keith]

If you are worried, then you can consider packing it in a pelican case within a suitcase. It should protect the scope from crush and most other abuse the airline can throw at it. You can probably get one big enough for your scope from fleabay for less than £100 used.

[Carbon Brush]

A general comment about the differences between the scope's delivery run from China, and a flight in the hold. This should help in deciding how to pack and the reasons to generally avoid reusing the original packing materials.

After manufacture, the scope is placed in packaging intended to provide support and ends up in a rectangular stackable box. Loads of these boxes are then stacked (like bricks) onto a pallette. The pallette is lifted into a shipping container by forklift, along with lots of others. Safe stacking heights/rules are known. The outer pallette wrapping and container sealing are chosen to withstand a moisture and salt laden journey. The container is hitched up to a truck and goes to the dock. It is then craned onto the ship and goes to the UK. At the UK end, it is craned to a truck and taken to a wholesaler. He unpacks the container, no doubt using a forklift again. Eventually the pallette contents are broken down to the individual cardboard boxes and shipped direct to the end users.

There are several aspects of the above journey that ensure the scopes arrive safely. The cardboard boxes are stacked in a controlled manner. The container remains upright from factory to UK warehouse. It is not subject to excessive shocks. There are only minor knocks and drops between ship/truck. Temperature goes from cold (but proably not sub zero) to tropical. Moisture is kept out of the scope immediate wrappings. The cardboard box is chosen to be strong enough to withstand one set of UK 'white van' handling from warehouse to end user. In fact this is probably the most challenging part of the journey as it may get thrown about and have other things puts on top. But if the box arrived looking bent/crushed, or wet, or split, you just refuse the parcel. No loss to you, just a minor delay until another is sorted.

Now consider your holiday journey. If you try to reuse your original packaging, it will have been weakended by it's delivery journey. Then it may be put at the bottom of the hold container, having many 20Kg cases dropped on top. This box was designed to hold a scope when other identical light boxes were neatly stacked on top. It was never intended to tolerate sharp corners of other luggage items totalling hundreds of Kg. These will deform and break the cardboard. Then of course there is the small matter of handling. We have all seen luggage items thrown from truck to conveyor, etc. Sometimes the handlers miss and there is a meeting with concrete. Every time I have tried to make a baggage mishandling claim, I have had so many obstacles and delays put in my way that I have found it easier to just walk away and buy a new case. While your scope is in the hold, the package may drop colder than your deep freeze if the flight is long. Plastics harden and fracture if stressed.

A tale from somone who a few years used to travel almost weekly to the USA, Middle East and other places. It did not matter whether he paid £10 or £100 for a case. After few flights it would get wrecked by the baggage mishandlers. He found the same obstacles to claims that I had, and concluded it was easier to walk away.

A peli case is a good choice. Very strong. Lots of foam inside and don't forget to open the vent plug. The hold is generally unpressurised. I would not though put the peli inside a suitcase. It the baggage mishandlers do smash the case, you can see immediately. Think about what happens if you take a hammer to the case. This is the equivalent of a sharp corner of a heavy case dropped from a height. A plit pelicase is obvious abuse and any airline will be hard pushed to claim this case was not suitable for the journey. Scuff marks on the outer suitace will hide the smashed peli beneath and you don't find out till you unpack later.

I'm going to be trying to take my WO80 on holiday this summer. As yet i haven't worked out whether to take the OTA in the cabin, or pack it deep in a case. I have the well padded WO rucksack for starters. But if it goes in the hold, the rucksack will have things like dive fins either side for armouring.

[username]

I fly with Ryanair a lot, I like them of course there's a lot to complain about but if you play the game it's cheap travel.

I invariably have my laptop with me as hand luggage and after my first flight with them seeing how things get crammed in the overhead lockers I know put my bag containing the laptop underneath the seat in front of me. They haven't got a problem with it (actively encourage too). This way I know it's safe. You just can't do it sat in any of the emergency exit rows

[Delboy_Hog]

Enjoy.

http://youtu.be/OISGykO6Z7U

Russell

Absolutely brilliant!

(I also like this guys 'electric toothbrush' sketch - well worth a look if you are a fan!)

Let us know how you get Rodrigol, and best of luck!

[Jessun]

Don't forget that anything in the hold will be subject to serious pressure reductions. On a long flight it will encounter extremely sub zero temperatures.

It's not much worse down in the holds than in the cabin.The holds are heated and pressurized. Dogs etc often fly in the holds. Stories of frozen people are from when they hide in other areas - like the landing gear bays.

Rough handling is a different matter though, and is not really airline dependant. You should be able to put 4-6 heavy bags on top, and it should be able to withstand a drop from the cargo hold onto concrete - since bags often slip off the belt they are going down on. That's a 2.5 meter drop from a short haul Airbus. Boeings ride lower. Finally the bag should be able to fly off a cornering baggage truck at something like 25mph.

I'd be nervous.

[E621Keith]

Most shipping box from China are designed to protect the cargo for a 1m drop on to a corner. It's probably more protection than most people luggage, but probably not enough to protect it being thrown from the plane to the ground.

A pelican case will offer the most impact protection. The current peli cases has automatic 'valve' made from Gortex which allow the pressure to equalise without compromising the water proof. However, a peli case is a thief magnet, it shouts 'I have expensive stuff inside', so it's best to pack the peli case inside a regular suitcase.

[rodrigol]

Delgog_hoy: you made my day! We've been looking at this at work all day!

[rodrigol]

Russell: thanks !

[rodrigol]

Can't stop laughing....

[rodrigol]

Again thanks for all the feedback. It is indeed quite scary to travel with expensive kit. I take my photo kit with me everywhere I go and so far, so good. After all the stories here I'm considering insurance. It should not be that expensive and some standard bank accounts provide automatic cover for some optical equipment. I need to finds out if a telescope qualifies as a photographic lens. I think it should. That would take care of replacing the kit if it gets damaged, but not of the missed opportunities to do some observing during the holidays. I'm not going to spend an good EP's worth on brianair or airports violent luggage handling. Some pelican cases cost more than than the SLT! Just need a plan to ensure cabin luggage is sensibly packed in order to enjoy the holidays.

[russ.will]

I posted that link in jest and glad it caused much amusement, but should have added this:

I have stood at the departure gate and seen, with my own eyes, baggage handlers throw my case onto the conveyor. I've seen them pick up the ones that missed and physically slam them onto the conveyor. That's slam, not as in lift and drop, but put down with excessive, unrequired, force.

The funny thing is the tripods, lenses, cameras and laptops that have been surrounded in cloths within, have never, ever been damaged - Not even when Alitalia managed to shatter a hard shell Samsonite. I've stopped being paranoid about it, because I make sure everything is well wrapped in clothes inside.

I'd still take something as fragile as and as small as a 127 Mak as hand luggage thought. They just aren't built the same way camera lenses are. Me? I bought an ST80 and video head for my photo tripod for holidays. At £50 for the scope, finder and diagonal off UKABS, it's no biggy if it dies on holiday.

Russell

PS.

[Delboy_Hog]

Well, inspired by all the postings on this and other threads, I wombled into Maplins yesterday to inspect their travel cases. They've got a reasonable range of sizes available, but i've opted for the "high impact case, large" and spent last night working on it. It comfortably holds the scope, prism, and several eye pieces.

Definitely better for transporting kit around than the cardboard boxes within big old cardboard box that it came in! On the downside though, (even if you could live with having nothing in your hand luggage apart from astronomy kit), it's just on the wrong side of the Ryanair handluggage spec for 2012 I believe - apparently maximum size allowed is 55cm x 40cm x 20cm, with the case being 51cm x 41.5cm x 20cm. Mighty close, but you can bet they'll pick up on this excess 1.5cm at the airport! You'll also have to find room for mounts / gotos / tripods etc (not to mention all your non-astronomy belongings!) in your suitcase.

The best alternative I could think of would be to put this case inside your suitcase and pack it in even more with clothes etc. If the suitcase was sturdy too i'd fancy my chances, but still a risk I guess.

As an aside, they (Maplin) have a variety of other cases, but most of them are not deep enough to fit the 127 mak and pack sufficient quantities of foam around it to make it worthwhile...(at least in my opinion - always happy to be proven wrong! ).

Alternatives? I guess a reasonably sturdy hand luggage bag, with scope wrapped in a towel / clothes? Just might be worth warning the folks at the x-ray bit so they don't fling it around too much, and stash it under your seat if they'll let you, or keep a very close eye on it if it's going in the overhead locker!

Best of luck!

[Carbon Brush]

Quote:

Don't forget that anything in the hold will be subject to serious pressure reductions. On a long flight it will encounter extremely sub zero temperatures.

It's not much worse down in the holds than in the cabin.The holds are heated and pressurized. Dogs etc often fly in the holds. Stories of frozen people are from when they hide in other areas - like the landing gear bays.

...................................

I think that it all depends on the aircraft. There have been times I have unpacked luggage fairly quickly after a long northerly flight. Items inside the case have been freezing.

Certainly anything in a 'cargo' hold may not be heated or pressurised. I have taken up this matter with TNT in particular when organising shipping goods overseas. There are no minima for temperature or pressure. Or if there are, they won't let on.