Entry level AP digital camera?

[deadfraggle]

Mainly interested in taking wide field pictures of the starry night sky right now. So many specifications, not sure what to look for. A camera with manual focus and the ability to change lenses to start. ISO and shutter speed selection too. Probably good if it was waterproof, cold rated and drop resistant. Rechargeable maybe?

Lol! I'm probably asking too much for what I'm willing to pay. I know that a lens alone can easily cost several hundred dollars. Just want to spend the minimum for now.

[Spikey]

fraggle you could get very good resuts with a second hand DSLR. Most folks tend to go for the Canon brand as it has better software support within the astrophotography communities (such as APT), this allows some versatility for future use such as adaption to telescopes. A decent camera is one part of it, getting access to the right software, support and experience is also just as valuable. You're off to a very good start with your star shots in your other thread

[pel]

I purchased a used Canon 350d body for £120 on ebay. I think that's about the cheapest you'll get a Canon DSLR for in my experience.

[RikM]

Canons are well thought of for imaging. You don't need a gazillion megapixels for astrophotography either so the basic models are fine. Looking secondhand the 350D would be good. A 1000D or 450D even better as they have live view which makes focusing much quicker.

[deadfraggle]

Canons are well thought of for imaging. You don't need a gazillion megapixels for astrophotography either so the basic models are fine. Looking secondhand the 350D would be good. A 1000D or 450D even better as they have live view which makes focusing much quicker.

Please explain 'live view' in contrast to a camera without it. How is focusing accomplished without live view? Trial and error?

[Viv]

Please explain 'live view' in contrast to a camera without it. How is focusing accomplished without live view? Trial and error?

Live view, is having the screen on the back, which show's exactly what the lens is viewing 'live'.

Without live view, it's through the eyepeice or having to use laptop with software.

[ollypenrice]

...but you will get incomparably better results if you do use a laptop because focus is soooo critical and looking at stellar images and guessing is not the way to do it.

Olly

[deadfraggle]

Cool, as at least I already have a laptop I can use. Would the 350D model allow for laptop focusing? Is there special software to do this, or will basic webcam video software suffice?

[RikM]

I use Astrophotography Tool (APT) on a laptop. The 350D is supported but you would need to use a serial cable or DSUSB cable to link to the camera. A 1000D or 450D would be better. More sensitive and lower noise. You can also display the live view preview on the laptop, which is a big help.

[sgazer]

Get the cheapest Canon you can with liveview. Liveview will save lots of time and you will achieve much better focus (although the 300d and 350d are very low noise, but no liveview, so you'll have to focus, take a shot, view and zoom in, change the focus slightly, take another shot and repeat 20 times). Don't disregard the 18-55mm and 55-250mm kit lenses either. Their optical quality is something to be reckoned with. All the measurements taken by photozone.de show them to be very good and they correlate well in practise with images of the stars, very sharp to the edge. Don't however get the original 18-55mm non-IS, it's utter rubbish in this respect, the IS is the one to go for. You can get a good 15s on a tripod with 200mm, more with lower focal length. Take plenty of pics, Iso 800-1600 (up to 100) and stack in DSS along with some darks and flats. You'll be amazed at what you get.

[sgazer]

should also add that the 1100d had mirror lock up removed from the menu (nice one Canon). Not having it can be an issue with vibration for shorter exposures, bright stars, planets and moon.

[deadfraggle]

Ok, wow. That's a lot of info to digest. So I'm looking for a used Canon for about $200-300 U.S/CAN with live view. Budget constrains mean I will have to wait a couple of weeks, but I will definitely post any model I find in this thread for review before purchase.

[RikM]

should also add that the 1100d had mirror lock up removed from the menu (nice one Canon). Not having it can be an issue with vibration for shorter exposures, bright stars, planets and moon.

You can get round that by shooting from liveview. With that running, the mirror is already up out of the way when you take the shot. They seem to have sorted the ampglow issue and it doesn't add appreciably to the noise on these short exposures (which is where you would use lock up). You can even set the onboard timer to take the shot while in liveview, I use this at work for low light macro with the 1100D.

Alternatively, APT can simulate mirror lockup by using a very short burst of liveview before the exposure. This works very well for lunar images where the exposures are so short that camera shake would show up.

For long exposures, mirror lock up isn't really needed anyway. I generally don't use it for deep sky images with my 1000D.

[sgazer]

yeah, I never really used it for long exposures (3-5mins) as the Canon s/w couldn't control it anyway. The APT feature sounds good. I find I need it for short exposures with my fast lens as the stars are so bright in a short time, so any wobble is noticeable.

[pel]

Cool, as at least I already have a laptop I can use. Would the 350D model allow for laptop focusing? Is there special software to do this, or will basic webcam video software suffice?

Hi , Yes I use the 350d with Backyard EOS on my laptop, there is a focusing ability in there. It allows you to take snapshots of the sky through the software and it displays on the laptop. Do that with a Bahtinov mask on and you can achieve great focus.

The 350D hasn't got Liveview though which would be nice, but it isn't difficult without it. Just snap adjust the focus and then snap again or stick BYE on a loop.

Quatermass's Blog has a bit on using BYE with a Canon 350d -

http://astrocasto.blogspot.com/

Perry.

[Photosbykev]

Check that the Canon camera you choose to buy has drivers for the Operating system on your laptop. Some of the older bodies are no longer supported by the modern operating systems and may not work with the laptop

[pel]

Good point Kev. There are driver problems for the 350d on Windows 7 64-bit.

I dual boot my laptop though and use Windows XP (32-bit) for all my astro apps.

[deadfraggle]

Buying used concerns me though. Without any experience on how these cameras are supposed to behave, I may not notice defects until it's too late to be returned. So perhaps waiting a bit longer, getting something like this:

Canon eStore Canada / Cameras / Photography / Digital SLR Cameras / EOS Rebel T3 with EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Kit

I don't see the model #s you guys are talking in what's available in the online Canon store. Navigational help required.

[deadfraggle]

edit: double post

[Mr TamiyaCowboy]

deadfraggle,

i picked my canon eos 350d with a 18-55 kit lens , a 90-300 kit lens a memory card and remote trigger from a local second hand camera shop, cost me all in £210 gbp.

as for second hand, i would pop to a local second hand camera store, have a chat ask to see a couple makes/models up and working have a play around with them, pop a few shots of then make your choice.

price wise you can always haggle a bargain, do not tell them what you want to spend just have that ball park in your head. also look at asking for things like a memory card chucked in, could find a 1gb card thrown in for free.

make sure it comes with a box if possible and the manual/+CD.

i was so glad after visiting a local store so much better holding product in hand and getting a feel for it. less stress to thinking if you have purchased a donkey from ebay

[deadfraggle]

Are 350d & 450d retired models, or is are they labeled differently in Canada. I can't find any ###d models in Canon's store.

There are no used camera stores near here, just some pawn shops. Think I'd rather spring for new + extended warranty anyway, but can't make head nor tails with what's available.

[Shibby]

There's a 350D on Astro Buy Sell now for £95...

[russellhq]

I'm assuming you're in Canada; a quick check on ebay brought up the following for around £200GBP

Canon 1100D Manufacturer Refurb:

Canon EOS Rebel T3 12.2 MP CMOS Digital SLR Camera - Body | eBay

[deadfraggle]

I've since talked to a local photographer, who has recommended a used camera store two hours away. If I can make it, I'll visit soon. One thing about using the budget camera I have now, is that I'm learning about all the features I wish were included. I don't doubt the recommendations posted here, but it's still a nice chunk of change. I'm also wondering about the skill level required to operate these professional models. I can get a Canon SX150 new for $160, which has a ton more features than the GE T145 I'm using now. Just not sure about what settings, like shutter speed, I could control with it. What drawbacks or features is it missing?

[Polar Bear]

The SX150 has a small sensor compared to the EOS DSLR APS 'C' sensor. Simply put you will have horrendous noise problems at the higher ISO settings / longer exposure times that you will need for Astro Photography.

The SX150 will not be compatible with the software you require or have the settings you need.

Stick with the EOS 450 / 1100 route as it enables use of dedicated software and has all the features you will require. If it means saving a for a while longer don't worry, the stars will be there next month.

Don't try and cut corners with gear as it will frustrate and infuriate you.

Paul