Advice for Beginner scope for 6 year old

[Ian99]

Hi,

My daughter has been learning about the solar system at school and is quite interested in planets and stars. I was considering buying a telescope that could keep her interest and grow into, but didn't want to spend too much money just in case she quickly loses interest.

Basically I'm hoping to get something that will give wow views of the moon, clearly see the rings of Saturn and moons of Jupiter. Seeing some minimal detail on Jupiter would be a bonus. Seeing some galaxies and nebula would be a bonus but I see that as something to grow into.

I have been googling for reviews for telescopes and keep coming back to this site which has a lot of useful information. In fact, I followed the link to astro-baby's review of the Sky Watcher 130PM and if I could get views of the moon and views of Saturn's ring like it is sketched then that would be perfect.

I have tried looking through binoculars (7 x mag) at Venus and Jupiter in the back garden this week and this held my daughter's interest for a few minutes but then she wanted to see the planets on youtube. So I'm not keen to splash too much cash just yet.

So after a a lot of reading reviews, I have a shortlist of 3

Startravel 80

Skyhawk-114 Catadioptric

Explorer 130P

If I went for the 130P I would be looking to buy second hand. And I would be with my daughter at all times when using the scope, but I am still thinking maybe the 130P would be a little too big? I would also like to take some nice photos of the moon and planets if possible, but that is fairly secondary.

From reading up on this, refractive and catadioptric scopes are easiest for maintenance and best suited for viewing planets, reflective scopes for deep space viewing and need collimating and possibly other maintenance? Is that a fair summary? Of course I've learnt from this forum you can never have too much aperture, so a bit concerned about the startravel's 80mm. I'd be gutted if the rings of Saturn are only viewable as 2 smudges either side of a sphere.

Appreciate any advice or personal insight for this. Okay, I will be hoping to enjoy the telescope along with my daughter, but it is really for her to spark her imagination.

Thanks.

[Atlas]

I introduced my young daughters to astronomy with a small cheap 60mm refractor. picked up one decent eyepiece for it. About 2 weeks into it the oldest used it as a baseball bat on the fence.

I recommend the cheap one to start with, you are able to just make out the rings of Saturn with it. If she understands to be gentle (my two youngest are very gentle with equipment)with it, bump it up to an 80 or 90mm.

[jonathan]

I have the ST80 and is a fine budget scope, needs next to no maintenance and is very easy to set up. Through it you can easily see the Andromeda galaxy, several easy star clusters, excellent views of the Moon, some detail on Jupiter (depends on seeing conditions) and it's moons. You can also see some nice double stars.

As you quite rightly pointed out, the bigger the aperture the more you will see, so for a little more money you might consider a StarTravel 102. I can't honestly remember viewing Saturn through my ST80, I may not have tried for a while, I will have a go when the skies clear (if Saturn is still up) and report back to you. I would be comparing it to my 8SE which gives rather nice views of Saturn, but that scope costs over £1,000.

Edit: You will not see quite as much detail through the ST80 as in the photo in Atlas's signature, even my 8SE does not show that much detail visually but then that is just from my back garden.

You will need a moon filter for viewing the moon and jupiter (they are very bright!), Saturn is bright too but you may lose some detail with the moon filter fitted.

Providing your daughter can understand that the views through a small telescope will look nothing like what is on youtube (unless it is through the same small telescope), she could get a lot out of it. The thrill for me is seeing the things with my own eyes, rather than some fancy photograph that has been processed to within an inch of it's life - that's just not reality.

[Frank the Troll]

Ditto the ST80

It will be small and simple enough for her to use by herself.

[Saleratus]

I have two daughters, now 12 & 14 years old, but I was doing astronomy with them when they were 6.

I really worry that your daughter will lose interest if you get her one of these smaller scopes. She'll find a few things, sure, but at that age, you can't expect her to appreciate these little fuzzes that much, and she already knows they are more interesting on YouTube.

What a child needs at the age of 6 is a scope she can share with her Dad. It's more about time together than about the scope. If your equipment is too expensive to share, I'd suggest you get an inexpensive Dob with a decent aperture for the both of you, and for her to use next to you while you are at your own equipment. She'll see much better images than in the smaller refractors that have been mentioned here, and you'll probably have more fun together.

Also, if you can manage it, it's great for children if you have one or two easy high-eye-relief Eps, as they often have a hard time using some of the close Eps that we grownups are used to.

Good Luck!

[Ian99]

Thanks everyone for the great replies. I think it confirms one thing that refractors seem easy to use and child friendly - i.e. can take some bumps and knocks.

In truth, this started by seeing a x250 telescope at Toysrus, and my suspicions that the magnification wasn't the most important factor were confirmed when I read some online reviews of it. That led me to consider the Mercury 707 and 705, then the ST80 and finally up to a 130 size.

I guess I was getting aperture fever on my daughter's behalf....

So thanks for the replies - I think the fever has passed (for now).

The ST80 does sound like a good one to go for. My local camera shop has one for £109 with EQ1 mount. It sounds like a good price but having done some more reading it sounds like an EQ1 mount is not so good for kids - I'll reply to Saleratus in a minute about about "Dobs". So would I be shooting myself in the foot getting what seems a good refractor with the wrong mount?

I've also read some another links about starting off with just binoculars and going to the library to learn about the sky first. I think binoculars are probably not going to work for my daughter because "the planets were jumping around" as she told me. I think I might visit the local library though. Now that the fever has passed I don't think I need to buy a scope in the next few days.

Thanks again for the helpful advice.

T

[JamesF]

My eight year old son manages an ST102 on an EQ1 without too many problems. He still needs some supervision, but he's not overly gifted with patience which probably has something to do with that. An alt-az mount probably is a bit more intuitive for a child, but on the other hand I put an RA drive on the EQ1 last week and my son was thrilled that it tracked the sun without him needing to touch it when we'd set a couple of scopes up for solar viewing.

James

[Ian99]

Saleratus,

Now that I know what a Dob is, that does look a good option for a child. I've looked at the options for Starwatchers (because I don't know any better and it seems like a lot of people recommend the make).

Options seem to be

Heritage 76 - I like the price!!!

Heritage 130P - again, like the Explorer 130P, I think I would look to buy second hand as I'm not sure how much she is going to use it.

Was there any other model you were thinking of? Would the smaller Heritage be of similar quality for viewing as the ST80? Of course, as she's from the youtube generation I'm not sure yet how impressed she's going to be with the views compared to the internet.

Thanks again.

P.S. When I saw a picture of the Skyliner I thought WOW. Unfortunately the smallest size seems to be 150P which is a bit out of my budget.

Btw, I often see P on the end of scope models and sometimes not. For example the Explorer has a 130, 130P and 130MP. The M seems to stand for motorised but what does the P stand for?

[RikM]

I can recommend this little scope as nice one for kids. First Light Optics - Skywatcher Mercury 705 the mount is much better than the EQ1 for just getting out and looking at stuff.

I also agree that my kids and I get most fun out of spending time together using the bigger kit. My 8 year old is quite fond my 10" Dob and quite often will sit on my lap glued to the eyepiece nudging the scope about on his own.

[heathenwoods]

I went through a similar kind of decision making process for my eldest. I bought cheap and bought twice. In retrospect I think what I should have done was get a 'scope which will give a few years of use whilst also pleasing any interested adult parties in the household and, with the benefit of hindsight I would get a SW Heritage 130P. It seems a great little 'scope which punches above its price bracket whilst also being a handy height and weight for nippers. Every time my lot come out to stargaze they all have to balance on a rickety chair to see into the Tal-1 eyepiece.

[Moonshane]

given that you are buying for youngsters, I am not surprised you underestimate them on this issue. I started an astro club at the primary school where I work and although it was for slightly older kids (Year 5s so 9-10) I thought a 200mm skyliner would be a good buy. within minutes they were using it and finding planets themselves with the red dot finder I added - this is an essential purchase in my opinion.

I'd recommend you buy a 150mm skyliner but wait for a used one. this will allow you to buy a really great scope and also allow you to sell at little or no loss if they lose interest.

[182570]

My eight year old son manages an ST102 on an EQ1 without too many problems. He still needs some supervision, but he's not overly gifted with patience which probably has something to do with that. An alt-az mount probably is a bit more intuitive for a child, but on the other hand I put an RA drive on the EQ1 last week and my son was thrilled that it tracked the sun without him needing to touch it when we'd set a couple of scopes up for solar viewing.

James

You must also remember that they should never look directly at the sun without a filter at the front end of the scope

[squashnut72]

The P stands for Parabolic.

It refers to the shape of the primary mirror. I'm no expert but I asked the same question a while ago and the consensus from the experts was that a parabolic mirror wasn't essential for 130mm aperture but would be more important for larger apertures.

Cheers

[Ian99]

Thanks again for the really helpful replies. I think I'm getting aperture fever again....this telescope is for my daughter...right? :-D

I think although the ST80 looks like a no lose starter option, I guess one of 2 things will happen - either the interest wanes and end up selling it or it's a big success and I need to buy a bigger scope sooner or later.

The thought of a Skyliner even excites me so I can only guess how my daughter would feel. So I checked some vids on youtube and views of the moon, Jupiter and Saturn were amazing. I think though I would need to wait for something second hand. One thing I noticed on the video of Saturn was how quickly the planet rolled out of view. But that is the kind of reality I think would be great for my daughter to experience first hand to appreciate it's actually the earth spinning.

And to squashnut - P for parabolic. It seems obvious now. Thanks a lot!

[RikM]

Here is my no. 2 Son with an 8" Dob last year, when he was 7.

[Moonshane]

just so you now the images in the vids were probably at higher magnifications that you'd use visually. that said, the image will still move albeit slower and therefore better for you/your daughter.

[Terrynak]

Saleratus,

Options seem to be

Heritage 76 - I like the price!!!

Heritage 130P - again, like the Explorer 130P, I think I would look to buy second hand as I'm not sure how much she is going to use it.

Was there any other model you were thinking of? Would the smaller Heritage be of similar quality for viewing as the ST80?

No, the Heritage 76 has a spherical mirror and for such a small F/3.9 ratio scope, the views of the planets and stars will be vastly inferior to the ST80 refractor. In the 76, you won't be able to focus the planets sharply into view. they'll look like unfocused blobs! This assumes however, that the ST80 you get is properly collimated. Quite a few come out of the factory miscollimated and you'll end up having to take apart and tweak the scope yourself.

I own both the U.S. versions of the Heritage 76 (Orion Funscope) and the ST80 (the Orion ST80-A), both made by the same manufacturer in China that makes the Skywatcher versions. Only the exterior paint job differs between the Orion and Skywatcher versions (sometimes they provide different eyepieces as well).

The Heritage 130p (with the parabolic mirror) is superior to both scopes and once collimated (both mirrors are collimatable) will give you better views of the planets and allow you to see more deep-sky objects with its 130mm of light-gathering power. Again, I own the U.S. version of this scope, called the Bushnell Ares 5 (same manufacturer but different distributor here in the States). The only problem is that it's an open-tube design and has a helical, rather than a rack-and-pinion focuser.

In the U.S. the Bushnell Ares 5/Heritage 130p is currently sold as a deeply-discounted product ($145.99 or £92.14) and a much better deal than the Orion ST80-A without the EQ1 mount, currently available only at retail ($199.99 or £126.21) or slightly less than retail when Orion does a sale ($179.99).

Here are two pics showing my 1) Orion ST80-A, mounted on an Orion VersaGo II alt-az mount (marketed in the UK as the Skywatcher AZ4 mount) and 2) Bushnell Ares 5, mounted on its tabletop mount. For the latter, notice that the open tube is covered by a light-shroud that I made myself with black felt.

The Bushnell Ares 5 OTA can be removed from its tabletop mount and attached to the VersaGo II/Skywatcher AZ4 mount, a more convenient arrangement.

[stevetynant]

just to add - if you use a Dob whatever the aperture (we're not talking light buckets here)it will be a lot easier for a young child imo purely because of the height of the eye piece placement on the OTA

If you check out Riks post above that will give you an idea on a fairly large Dob that will show a lot and keep interest besides holding its value if you want to sell later - would guess later in the year after Stargazing Live fever has long been forgotten you will find quite a few on EB as they seem few and far between at the moment.

[Ian99]

Rik,

Thanks for the picture. That goes a long way to making my mind up to wait for a second hand 150P Skyliner.

Terry,

Thanks for the first hand info on the Heritage 76.

Moonshane,

Thanks for the tips and advice.

I went to the local shop today to try and view the ST80 they advertised on the internet but it turns out they only get telescopes in when they're ordered. They had what looked like a Mercury 705 or 707 on swivel(?) mount but wasn't labelled. Seemed I knew more than the guy in the shop (thanks to the useful info I've picked up here). Was a very underwhelming experience which may well have put me off getting a scope altogether if I hadn't got a better idea of what to expect from this forum.

Cheers.

P.S. There really isn't much going second hand on ebay....... :-(

[Moonshane]

this site U.K. Astronomy Buy & Sell is often better than ebay. if you get chance ask about stuff here first but things do go quickly.

[Beardy30]

Simple ............the Skywatcher infinity 76P costs about £50.00 and it is powerful enough for a beginner to want more.