Xbox Livecam Mod (Cliff)

[bomberbaz]

How do you process the AVI to RAW ?

http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&tbo=d&q=avi+to+raw+video+converter&oq=avi+to+raw&gs_l=hp.1.2.0i30l4.1270.8512.0.11409.21.13.6.2.2.0.192.1575.4j9.13.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.gnx167wygY0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bvm=bv.41248874,d.d2k&fp=2dffb21b976d10d7&biw=1920&bih=1041

Lots of possible solutions there autonm

[Aenima]

http://www.google.co...w=1920&bih=1041

Lots of possible solutions there autonm

Hmmm, some interesting looking stuff.

Dont really know how it works myself, i'd think to get the best from the xbox you would probably need to get the best possible capture to begin with - whatever processing you do after is limited by the original data.

Its a great idea for noise reduction, and maybe the colour issues that people have with the xbox images can be reduced too. My experience with RAW files starts and ends with basic Deep sky stacker as Canon CRW. files - and even then I just do what it says in the help files and hope for the best.

Al I do know is the RAW is less compressed and contains more data, but it does need the processing to get the most from using Raw to begin with.

If someone either knows how the xbox can be made to capture more data or works out how to better process the AVI's using conversion software - this would be a good place to share it.

Thanks Cliff btw.

Regards

Aenima

[bomberbaz]

As soon as I get a half chance I will be out there trying loads and loads of different ideas. I have done a limited amount of reading and I have played about with videos a few years back when first learning my own pc skills but not really in this field. On the other hand, things have certainly moved on since then so it will be interesting to see what i can come up with.

However before my half chance gets its chance, I have to get comforatable with the new scope. Always something eh

[perks2008]

All this really helps thanks I've got a xbox cam here lol gess its aving it now hehe , bthanks

[Stargazing_Cliff]

I recommend when using the xbox cam with linux op system ubuntu/ xubunto and use wxastrocapture gives options to change exposure controll better than windows does.

what you can do if u have windows and dont want to install linux you can download the live cd iso and burn it to cd copy of ubunto / xubunto and run from live cb so you wont mess your windows up.

or you can boot in windows and install the linux in windows itself. and when you boot it give option to boot in windows or linux.

i use my xbox cam on mini laptop i installed xubuntu on installed from usb .

and thats easy to do.

[bomberbaz]

I tried a bit of moon photography last night at 640*480 using no barlow and my new scope Nexstar 8SE F/length 2000 (F10) and the image projected to webcam was enormous. I was only having a quick play as I didnt want to upset the swmbo by spending all night outside but I think I am goning to have to drop the resolution right down to get a smaller, more manageable image. Does anyone else have the same scope as me and if so, what res do you use ?

Baz

[pjac]

I tried a bit of moon photography last night at 640*480 using no barlow and my new scope Nexstar 8SE F/length 2000 (F10) and the image projected to webcam was enormous. I was only having a quick play as I didnt want to upset the swmbo by spending all night outside but I think I am goning to have to drop the resolution right down to get a smaller, more manageable image. Does anyone else have the same scope as me and if so, what res do you use ?

You might want to try taking multiple overlapping photos of the moon to build up a mosaic - here's my first attempt of a Moon Mosaic using Xbox webcam, the processing took way longer than capturing the images but I was learning as I went.

I have also tried a focal reducer, hoping to just squeeze the moon into one frame. The reducer seemed to work on close things like hills, but for my first moon attempt I couldn't get focus. I suspect I need an extension tube or something...

[Stargazing_Cliff]

Yes just got another xbox cam was 1.99p in game store i shall mod this one as ep or a-focal

ready to go with me collection of cams to start modding again

[Stargazing_Cliff]

I tried a bit of moon photography last night at 640*480 using no barlow and my new scope Nexstar 8SE F/length 2000 (F10) and the image projected to webcam was enormous. I was only having a quick play as I didnt want to upset the swmbo by spending all night outside but I think I am goning to have to drop the resolution right down to get a smaller, more manageable image. Does anyone else have the same scope as me and if so, what res do you use ?

Baz

Your best of recording few avi's and keep to a circle movement around moon taking as much as you can in avi like 20-30 second avi's and do more avi's the same then you can use registax to process the avi and save the image and do rest to all other recorded avi's and once you have couple of images done of moon you just use microsoft ice and make new panorama and it make the mosaic for you.

[bomberbaz]

I have looked at ICE and seems a great programme. But the image i got was so large is was very fuzzy and probs about 2% of the moon total. There is no way i am trying to stitch together 50 odd clips. I shall play around and see what i get at lower res.

On the plus side, it "might" bode well for when I move onto Jupiter hahaha, or might not also

Watch this space.....

[Stargazing_Cliff]

what i shall do with xbox cam just got shall work on making maybe a-focal with it add it on end of the focuser ep so have bit focus to play around with aswell as telescope's focus.

going to test it unmodded first with ep.

before i go modding it to infrared.

[bomberbaz]

Hey cliff, I found this in the FAQ section of the Microsoft ICE:

New Video Panorama:

Use this option (available on Windows 7 only) to stitch a still panorama from a video. Videos work best when the camera is rotated slowly (to avoid blur) in place, either on a tripod or held by hand. If you want to capture moving people or objects, try to keep them centered in the frame. Note that you can select areas in specific frames of the video that you want ICE to include in the final panorama -- this is a great way to get a "motion summary" of an action shot.

Now I am not sure if what I have in mind will work but I was going to use the slow motion movement buttons on mount and use these to track a larger image to see what it will come up with. Set it at lower frame rate of 15 as otherwise it will end up enormous, maybe it will work. Again, watch this space

[emadmoussa]

I'm modifying this webcam tomorrow. Hopefully I won't mess it up...will keep you posted.

[yesteryeargames]

Hi all, i am thinking of trying this,

what sort of results could i expect from a manual 8 skyliner dob telescope ?

I am not expecting amzing results as i wouls have to constanty move it on some things , but maybe just the planets ect,

Anyone here ever tried astrophotography on a manual dob, any pics of the results possible?

thanks

[simonmc]

Hi all, i am thinking of trying this,

what sort of results could i expect from a manual 8 skyliner dob telescope ?

I am not expecting amzing results as i wouls have to constanty move it on some things , but maybe just the planets ect,

Anyone here ever tried astrophotography on a manual dob, any pics of the results possible?

thanks

I have. when i had my spc900 i did try it. I did get some reasonable results but as you can guess the results are no where near a guided image.

Simon

[yesteryeargames]

I have. when i had my spc900 i did try it. I did get some reasonable results but as you can guess the results are no where near a guided image.

Simon

Oh right, do you have any of the old pics with the manual mount ? would love to see

[simonmc]

Only ones i have are these. There not brilliant as i had to get them off my facebook page. I lost the originals:-

Venus. Think this one was afocal through the 2" 32mm EP in daylight

Saturn. Not sure how many frames but was stacked using registacks

Moon. Im not sure if the craters are named correctly, did this years ago and never rechecked.

IIRC these are actually the first pictures i ever took through the dob. March 2009 according to the date on the venus pic anyway!

Simon

[Aenima]

I have taken handtracked images of jupiter - though the majority are using the spc900nc - but the actual webcam aside, I found tracking by hand only slight disadvantage you just need to try and keep the image relatively still and use software like Castrator or PIPP to crop n center the AVI before stacking.

Your 8" dob will get you great images of Jupiter and Saturn, though obviously the results will depend on the webcam you use but either way planetary imaging is easily possible on manual tracked scopes.

Two from spc900 and the last one with xbox cam. All handtracked - castrator, autostakkert!2 sharpened in registax6.

Regards

Aenima

[Stargazing_Cliff]

Just modded that xbox cam got for 2 quid. i can now use it as extra skycam or telescope ep.

i remove the little bit of plastic on the casing so i can screw in the normal lens

i shall put it on test soon

maybe do moon mosaic with it.

i done video i will sort that out and add here so you can watch how i modded mine.

[yesteryeargames]

Thanks you for the pics they are great

i could love to just and get some like that,

I dont suppose anyone has a pre modded xbox cam with the tube glued on ect they could sell me ?

[bomberbaz]

Aenima, can you give mea step by step guide to how you did those pics including using PIPP. I have so many programmes installed and get so much differing views on what you do but your results look great. So I would like to know your process and try to copy.

Baz

[Aenima]

Aenima, can you give mea step by step guide to how you did those pics including using PIPP. I have so many programmes installed and get so much differing views on what you do but your results look great. So I would like to know your process and try to copy.

Baz

Yeah, man. Not a problem.

I havent actually used pipp for the images until this month - so the examples are all from the Castrator cropping software, otherwise I would say the initial capturing is where you need to get your technique sorted, when you get AVI's that are giving you the best data to work with the rest is quite simple.

When you say step by step I assume this is from the start of capture at the telescope? Rather than just software processing?

This will give me an idea as to what steps to concentrate on.

Regards

Aenima

[bomberbaz]

From the top please mate. I got to the stage where i am overloaded with ideas/suggestions/tips etc. So i just wanted one persons take on things and no offence to otjers posting, but i like your ideas and attitude to it all. Baz

[Aenima]

Baz, HTH

When you have the object on the chip - and looking at the screen - you need to get focus as good as possible, its usually a struggle but worth spending time on as this will determine your end level of detail. A good 2x barlow (or even 3 or 4x if using a large 6-8" aperture) will greatly improve your detail.

I often take two or three AVI's tinkering with slight adjustments to focus 'just in case' because its really hard to tell by looking if its in focus or very near to it.

Each AVI should be no longer than 2mins due to rotation (Jupiter, mostly) and as central as you can manage.

Keeping Gain low (boost it to locate the planet first, then bring it right back for capture) and exposure setting up to just before it overexposes (in sharpcap the exp. number turns red when too high) and maybe play with brightness and with spc900 the saturation can go up a bit for a deeper colour --

(I have trouble with colour using the xbox and try to not overdo the colour issues by saturating too much)

--you'll find after a few runs the settings that suit your scope and cam will get more familiar as you practice, things to remember are the gain and exposure ratio, one will affect the other and you will need to watch the screen to find your balance.

The detail will look soft and blurred while 'live' on screen but this is mostly 'seeing' and other atmospheric distortion. I have found that the look of the planet during capture is a good indicator of the eventual result and should be as good an image as possible, it may help to run the focuser through the focus point and out the other side and back again so you get an idea of the sweet spot in the middle and where to stop, leaving it in the best place judging by what your seeing on screen.

As you take each 2min AVI a little bit of experimental adjustments between can give you a better idea of what works for next time. (taking notes if your memory is anything like mine).

This is a unsharpened stack, before processing and is a good indication of what you should be seeing in your AVI (and on the screen during capture).

This is the same image (oops, the pale larger one is with a different barlow, but you get the idea) (see the bottom pics) but sharpened in registax wavelets.

You can see the image was there to begin with - stacking and wavelets can only do so much.

When you have a good 1-2min AVI you'll probably want to use virtualdub to chop the start and/or end off so the jolts and wobbles from touching the focus or other vibrations are removed to give stacking software an easier time of it.

Auto stakkert!2 is great as it only takes a few clicks and a minute or two to produce a stack, then take the PNG file into registax6 for wavelets - less is often more here, usually to begin with you need to get rid of any colour aberration like the blue edges from atmospheric diffraction by selecting the planet and using RGB align (Estimate button) and then your ready to sharpen.

Wavelets are really effective for making detail leap out but its easy to over do it. Try the first and second sliders - up about halfway. The settings should be default - Gaussian, not linked etc. (I'll try getting a screenshot if that would help?)

Use the view zoomed window which allows you to see the smaller detail easier whilst keeping the image actual size on the main screen, and just try out the sliders, subtlety can be the best way to approach it as jupiter can look over done and I personally think it looks more natural when its a bit 'misty' (my image in my previous post above is a bit hard compared with the one posted just here, above). Stop and reduce it if the image goes grainy or the belts go too dark, these are signs of over sharpening.

I really hope this helps, the best thing is to practice - weather permitting! - and your learning curve will improve every time you capture AVI's and process them.

PS anything that didnt make sense or needed elaborating on pls let me know.

Best of luck,

Regards

Aenima

Unsharpened output from Autostakkert!2

Is the image underneath visible? its the same but sharpened in Regi6

What a mess! soz.

[Aenima]

Using PIPP will have to be another post, when I get used to using it - but the VirtualDub-Castrator-Autostakkert!2-Regaistax6 combination is what I use at the moment. you might be fine without V-dub and AS!2 if you get a reasonable AVI and stack in Regi6, choosing a good reference frame to put the alignpoints on (it tells regi6 what a 'good' frame looks like to compare with all the rest. And select the Best% frames about 50 percent. Or best quality% about 70 to 90 percent whichever works the best)

There are a couple tutorials online - some good, but with amazingly good images that wont be like our results. And some rough guides with average AVi's closer to what we can expect. Still probably worth a look, it all helps in the end I guess.

Now we just need some -bleep- clear skies!

Regards

Aenima

PS. There's a dude on SGL called JamesF, and he is an advanced imager and good with the tech stuff and I have always found his advice spot on. Maybe among his posts or images there will be extra info or suggestions that I am still a bit hazy on. Worth a look.