Father & Son Telescope Advice

[DRennie]

Hi,

I have been enjoying reading these forums and have a question that I would appreciate some guidance with.

To begin with, let me emphasise that I have no experience whatsoever with astronomy apart from watching Wonders of the Solar System...;o)

I would like to start taking an interest in star gazing as a means to engage more with my six year old son who is on the autistic spectrum. He is fascinated by the Google Night Sky app on my phone and so I feel that star gazing is something that we could learn together.

Having read some of the forums, I see that the 'binocular' route is the recommended way to start this hobby. In my case though I would like to buy a telescope that we can enjoy using as we learn but will not become obsolete once our knowledge/experience increases.

Please can I have some suggestions about what telescope I should be looking at bearing in mind the fact that it will be used by both adult (allegedly) and a child?

The telescope will probably live in one of the bedrooms or in the attic. We could possibly use it in the attic because one of the larger windows opens, but I think that it will be mostly used in the back garden or at a nearby lakeside area. Therefore it will need to be reasonably portable. I am looking to spend somewhere in the region of £200, but I reckon that I could go up to about £300 before my wife pulls that special face of hers!!

I can how highly rated the Skywatcher 150P & 200P are on here and also like the look of the Supatrak scopes. I have had a mosey over at the FLO website and I'm also open to the idea of buying 2nd hand.

Any advice on this specific question and indeed about star gazing in general will be gratefully received. I have ordered "Turn Left at Orion" from Amazon and have downloaded Stellarium on to my laptop, so just have to start learning how to find stuff in the sky now!

Many thanks in advance & best regards

Duncan

[kniclander]

my son is 6 and he is just starting to enjoy looking through my dob. the pros of a dob are zero set up time and it's very stable. The cons are a small child will usually have to stand on a chair and the object will drift out of the field of view quickly and (in my experience) the child won't be able to track it. you can get scopes with mounts that will track the movement of the night sky but they are a bit more of a faff to set up and you end up paying more for the mount than the scope. for high power planetary viewing, tracking is a distinct advantage. For me, I'd get a dob every time but Im sure some different views will come along.

[carastro]

You are not going to get a lot with £200 - £300. However if you only want to use it for observing and are not intending to get into Astro-photography then try for a 2nd hand ETX90 (or 125) or Nexstar GOTOs. I just found this one which might suit which has a GOTO. I started with a 114 Non GOTO and got some cracking views with it, but found I really needed the tracking and GOTO otherwise it can be hard work.

Celestron 114LCM Computerised Reflector Telescope#

If you think you might want to get into astrophotography you need some quite different advice.

Carole

[DOBBY]

Hi Duncan... & welcome to the forum

As above...tracking can be handy when you get that...look what i can see moment & it takes time to swap over to view it. That said..kids do find a dob easy to use & the 200 will show you so many things... you wont get bored.

Many observing groups & clubs are holding public open-evenings ( Jan 21st ) in conjuction with the BBC StarGazing Live series... look up your local one..pop along see & try the various 'scopes in the flesh...ask questions...watch your sons face...you'll soon know the one to get. Take the wife too...she wont pull a face after seeing a happy son.

[E621Keith]

Hi Duncan, Welcome to SGL

Binocular is a good place to start. It will not become obsolete, but will supplement your telescope in the future.

For telescope, the 150/200p dobsonian will be a good choice. If you plan to buy used, you should also consider a EQ3-2 or EQ5 with RA motor and a 150p reflector. These will give you a stable tracking platform, which will be better for sharing.

[umadog]

A 200 to 300 pound budget is reasonable. You can pick up a new 200p (8") Dobsonian for that. This is more than good enough as a starter scope: it could potentially be the only scope you will ever need. That's a lot of telescope! Over time you can accumulate extra eyepieces of what have you. No need to fork out all that cash in one go as these scopes come with starter eyepieces. The alternative (whilst staying within budget) is to go for smaller aperture but add a GoTo mount. This will help initially with finding stuff and tracking is pleasant, but the views will be significantly dimmer. If you want a larger aperture with tracking you may be looking at a budget two or three times what you have right now.

Observing in the attic may not work well in winter as heat rising from the house will create a lot of turbulence that will mush up the views.

The only thing you need to keep in mind is that deep space objects such as galaxies and nebulae will appear faint and colourless in any telescope. This is particularly the case from a light polluted locations. So make sure that the expectations of yourself and your son are properly calibrated.

[angusb1]

A lot of small kids will struggle to keep binoculars steady and this can put them off.

A small Maksutov on an alt/az mount is light and short enough that your son could use it on his own if he wanted to. If you were to spend a bit more you could get one on a tracking mount which would find objects and then keep them in view.

Maksutovs are a very robust design and do not need collimating to the same degree as a reflector and are shorter so easier to handle. Their only downside is that they need a while to cool down before they give the best images but if you keep them somewhere cold like the garage or a utility room this is a much shorter time. Also their small size means that you could take them on holidays if you are going in the car or to a dark site.

A friend's son is also on the autistic spectrum, having Aspergers, and is interested in astronomy too. There seems to be something about astronomy which appeals and he finds it easy to remember a lot of information about it. Good luck with your telescope and I hope you both enjoy your new hobby.

[Space Beagle]

Another vote for a Dobsonian mounted 8" scope from me!

I've had mine for a few years now but it still gives me many "Wow!" moments!

It's a great way to 'learn' the night sky when used with a good guide book - such as the one you have ordered, TLAO!

Good luck and I hope you and your son really enjoy what is a wonderfull pass-time, well, when the clouds clear that is..!

Doc

[rwilkey]

Another vote for the 8" Dob, it is at this aperture that real astronomy starts and you will have many 'Wow' moments with this, it's a lot of scope for around £300, you won't look back believe me, you'll get amazing views!

[DRennie]

Just logged in and seen all the replies! I really appreciate all those who took the time to share some of your knowledge. There is much food for thought, and at least it gets me thinking along clearer lines.

What is has shown me is that I need to improve my own knowledge a bit to really understand the differences between the types of telescope before making a decision

I am in North Holland and have to say that we seem to get clear skies here quite often. Certainly much better than the light polluted part of North London where I previously lived!!

Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be back very soon to ask more questions!!

Best regards one and all,

Duncan

[jimmyjamjoejoe]

I've been keeping my eye on this thread, since at the end of this month i'l be ordering either a 150p or a 200p (both dobs).

There are a few things to consider in my case, money is an issue, but for the sake of £70 for drastically improved light gathering/views, i'l just tighten the belt for next month.

The second thing is space. This is the only reason i'm even questioning the decision. I share a room, so don't have much space. There is a nice discreet space at the foot of my bed that measures 180mm, so the 150p will hide in there just about. The 200p however would need to be stood behind the TV in the corner (the tv stands around 1100mm off the floor so the top of the scope would poke up over the top lol)

Personally, i've pretty much decided in my head (and heart <3) that even with the increased cost, and less than elegant storage, i still want the 200p, otherwise i'l always be wondering "what if?"...

I just need to build up the courage to take the plunge on payday, gonna be fun to explain to my room-mate, my landlord, and my girlfriend...

[Starhoparfa]

My 11 year-old also lives with autistic/sensory processing difficulties and the family have just had a Sky-watcher Heritage 130P Dobsonian (see 'Newbie signing in' thread). He doesn't concentrate well at all but instead likes to do things like clicking in and out of menus and his current obsessions are way below his age.

The Heritage is really easy to point and shoot and the above comment above about learning about the stars might present him with the opportunity to develop a more grown up obsession. I'm hoping that the scope, and the interaction we can have together both inside (with Stellarium and various astro books) and out using scope and bins might be as enjotable for him as it could be the rest of the family.

I will say that the Heritage 130P is highly portable- it can even travel upright in the boot so if you have darker skies within a reasonable drive then I would say the lesser aperture might be offset by the fact that it can easily go where the conditions are better (experts confirm please.) Do take care if you get something more expensive that there isn't any risk of damage. My lad can occasionally flip and he's clumsy also - all part and parcel of how he's wired.

PS. Came across this very useful link- zoom in on the map and you'll be amazed, and probably depressed, at the same time:

http://www.avex-asso.org/dossiers/pl/uk/index.html

[midge91]

I have the 10" dob. Great scope but not the best for small children. My little brother (7) has to stand on a chair to view things and normally knocks the telescope whilst doing so. The 200p is the same size (length) as mine. I got mine second hand from a user on here. I would go with a smaller mak and then maybe down the line (when your son gets a bit bigger you could consider a dob or similiar size.) Don't be afraid to look second hand although some people strongly beleive against it, I got a £140 discount of what was practically a new telescope. If you are keeping it up stairs then a dob would be a bad choice as you would have to take it in two parts which would be a rather fearsome task for anyone.

Midge,

[Starhoparfa]

and my girlfriend...

My advice is to get all your hobbies established before any nuptuals. Put your foot down now.

Gear Acquisition Syndrome and marriage do not always sit well together.

[jimmyjamjoejoe]

My advice is to get all your hobbies established before any nuptuals. Put your foot down now.

Gear Acquisition Syndrome and marriage do not always sit well together.

It's ok, she has no access to my financial records, so the scope only cost £170 right guys? RIGHT GUYS?!

[DRennie]

My 11 year-old also lives with autistic/sensory processing difficulties and the family have just had a Sky-watcher Heritage 130P Dobsonian (see 'Newbie signing in' thread). He doesn't concentrate well at all but instead likes to do things like clicking in and out of menus and his current obsessions are way below his age.

The Heritage is really easy to point and shoot and the above comment above about learning about the stars might present him with the opportunity to develop a more grown up obsession. I'm hoping that the scope, and the interaction we can have together both inside (with Stellarium and various astro books) and out using scope and bins might be as enjotable for him as it could be the rest of the family.

I will say that the Heritage 130P is highly portable- it can even travel upright in the boot so if you have darker skies within a reasonable drive then I would say the lesser aperture might be offset by the fact that it can easily go where the conditions are better (experts confirm please.) Do take care if you get something more expensive that there isn't any risk of damage. My lad can occasionally flip and he's clumsy also - all part and parcel of how he's wired.

PS. Came across this very useful link- zoom in on the map and you'll be amazed, and probably depressed, at the same time:

http://www.avex-asso.org/dossiers/pl/uk/index.html

Fantastic link - thanks for that. I found the light pollution map for Benelux on there too, and it confirmed that just 5km down the road from me are relatively "dark" areas! It's not the Scottish highlands, but compared to 'white hot' North London....

My little man has PDD-NOS which is at the 'milder' end of the autistic spectrum. He doesn't have such a big problem with meltdowns and he can concentrate if something catches his attention. Because of this and his age, I'm leaning more towards a smaller telescope on a goto mount as something that would tick as many boxes as possible. He is also fascinated by computers, so an auto tracking function (is that a collective groan I can hear from the purists...;o) could help stimulate his interest too.

[DRennie]

I have the 10" dob. Great scope but not the best for small children. My little brother (7) has to stand on a chair to view things and normally knocks the telescope whilst doing so. The 200p is the same size (length) as mine. I got mine second hand from a user on here. I would go with a smaller mak and then maybe down the line (when your son gets a bit bigger you could consider a dob or similiar size.) Don't be afraid to look second hand although some people strongly beleive against it, I got a £140 discount of what was practically a new telescope. If you are keeping it up stairs then a dob would be a bad choice as you would have to take it in two parts which would be a rather fearsome task for anyone.

Midge,

Two good reasons to lead me away from the a larger dob. As much as a 200P appeals to me, I don't want to store it in the garage and fear that the size difference between scope & boy could lead to it being a short lived pursuit!

Thanks for the input.

[onesmallstep]

Hi

Given your son's age the larger Dobs tend to be too large and awkward for younger children to use (as per the comments in the prvious post) so the Heritage-130 is a good compromise between size and usability. It can be used indoors or outside and is large enough to offer good views of the majority of popular objects.

First Light Optics - Skywatcher Heritage 130p Flextube

HTH!

[AlbertP]

Firstly, props for your reasons for getting into astronomy and I wish you all the best for you and your Son.

Secondly.. perhaps it would be a good idea to locate your nearest telescope shop and pop in their with your son.

The info here will no doubt be an essential tool when finding your "ideal" telescope, however I don't think you will know what is best (for certain) until you see the telescope infront of you.

That way, you can have your son try them to see how each telescope suits your requirements. It's also a good bonding session with your Son... a win-win situation in my opinion.

By all means I'm just a newbie, I couldn't provide you with any technical advice... I just thought I'd throw in a suggestion on conjunction with the advice that you have received thus far.

[umadog]

Don't worry about the size of the 8" Dob. They're not very big in reality: could fit in most cupboards, for instance. I store my 18" truss Dob in the kitchen cupboard, for example.

I think your main concern should be how you will use the scope with your son. Seeing others with their kids (and hearing about it on-line), one thing that comes up often is that younger children are impatient to see things and don't want their parent to spend 20 minutes tracking down an object. A "Push-To" or GoTo scope is useful in these situations. If you think your son enjoys learning the locations of stuff and memorising things about the objects, etc, then he may enjoy the process of finding things.

[Marvin1960]

Hi

I have a daughter with ADHD and Aspergers and find a little 70mm refractor allows her to check out moon and near planets and can double up as wildlife spotter and check around the skies.

You can get one for a hundred quid and if he gets bored stick it on e bay and get most of your money back.If they get inerested then hit the bankroll.(sktwatcher 705 £99)

Whatever you do good luck!

[imarcs]

I bought a Skywatcher 102 Mak for me and my 10 year old (2nd hand 120 quid) about 6 Months ago. We still haven't run out of things to look at. Although we are improving at finding things the goto is handy when his attention span is being taxed. We do try not to use it but to be honest its worth its weight in gold sometimes, which is why don't believe a manual Dob is the best best in your situation. But thats only my opinion of course.

Having said all that, we are awaiting delivery of a truss dob later on this month.....

[DRennie]

I store my 18" truss Dob in the kitchen cupboard, for example.

"Sorry dad, I thought it was a monster sized tube of Pringles.... "

[DRennie]

I really appreciate all the comments, especially the ones from those of you have used telescopes with young children. It has all been very useful and I will try and find a shop in or around Amsterdam that I can go to with my son and check out the various scopes in the flesh!

Thanks again.