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first off a BIG hi to all !! ;)

this question has probly been asked many times but as im new here and my head is spinning so i will just throw it out...any help regarding this would be great.

i have some knowledge of stargazing but on with bino's.

i now have a few quid to spend on a good telescope ;)

having searched the net im now very unsure to just what to get !!

i will try to narrow things down for ye as to what i want it for etc.

firstly i dont have transport and i live in liverpool so the back garden wid lots of light pollution is my only option and may be a factor regarding what is suitable for me.

secondly i love the idea of "deep sky hunting" galaxies and nebs clusters but the moon and planets wont be missed out.

so far ive narrowed it down to two scopes....but cant decide whitch one is best for me with light pollution and so on...

the first is a meade dob 12"

the other is a cel NexStar 6 SE

are any of these two good for my needs ? and which one is best for me ?

are there better than these for there price range out there ?

i do plan to get good EP's once ive got the scope to give me options.

any advice would be great and sorry if this has been asked a million times before ....karly :)

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If you intend the DSO observing the the 12" is the one.

It simply has 4 times the light gathering of the 6SE.

Having said that if the light pollution is too much then you yourself may have a problem pointing the scope at the object you want. It could be too dim to pick out against the polluted sky. If set up the 6SE should goto to right place and so hopefully get the object in the field of view and so make it observable.

The 6SE will need setting up and aligning, this includes having a power supply. So a bit more involved.

The Dobsonian however is not small. There is a 12" on AB&S that is up for sale as the person says it is too big, they want something smaller.

The 2 scopes are a fair bit different so saying one is "better" then the other is not I think a fair comparison.

Transport wise I would say neither is really transportable without a car. The 12" is fairly big. The 6SE although smaller comprises of scope, drive unit and mount, added up they all come to a size and weight as well.

If you want to find things yourself then really the 12" is the more obvious choice.

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Hi Karly,

Firstly have you had a play with either of these, the 12" dob is a BIIIIG scope.If not head to your nearest astro store (Stockport Bino's??, used to work in Lpool and cannot remember if there is any astro shop there!!) and see which one you would be most comfortable with.

Also see if there is a local astro group go along and get your mits on them..

Good luck with your choice.

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ok guys thanx for your imputs....

truly appreciated

;)

just wish there was a shop i could look at them but nothing in liverpool regarding shops except j@ss@ps....they seem like toys tho to me... the dob seems to be the one then.... i have had a blue explorer 4" reflector ( not sure of its make ) in my garden years ago but was just borrowed for two nights only...not sure how good it is compaired to a big dob but i did get good planets such as jupiter and two moons and a nice shot of saturn...venus did well too as a small cresent and our moon was truly amazing and was truly stunned....am i in for a good surprise getting a 12" dob or is the "expectation" margin only slight between a £150 reflector and £800 dob scopes ? i did not test it out on deep sky objects...i did not get the chance...

karly ;)

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I don't think there is any doubt that a 12" dobsonian would be a very significant improvement over your 4" reflector - frankly I think an 8" dob would too.

Given the size of the 12" scope issues such as where it will be stored and how far it has to be carried to where you observe come into play. Unless you are very strong, a 12" dob needs to be carried in two sections so it can 3 trips to get it set up - i) mount / base ii) optical tube and iii) eyepieces and observing accessories.

Your interest in deep sky objects may clash with your observing situation as dark skies are needed to get the best out of them.

I'd not rush into this decision as you seem to have quite a lot of factors to balance here.

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and what about EP's ?

the dob im looking at comes with one 26mm QXTM Wide Angle 2" Eyepiece...

i have a buget of £300 for EP's..

how do i get the best out of this dob using EP's on that buget...would i need lots or just a few good ones ?

im looking at 2" GSO revelation for £75 each are these good ? .... and what sizes to get ive no idea ;)

this is what is says >>>>

Wide field of view

* 26mm - 70 Degree field 5 Element

* 30mm - 70 Degree field 5 Element

* 42mm - 65 Degree field 5 Element

* 50mm - 55 Degree field 5 Element

sorry for all the questions but it can be a mine field out there for me .. lol.. karly ;)

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there are times when i can just about see the milky way from my garden and no lights to dampen my night vision...its nights like that that i can sit armed with only my binos (and tea) for hours on end...also, have seen androm gal easy with bino's as a good ghostly smudge....not sure how that would register on the "ligh pollution" scale or if you can judge by that what i could get from a 12" dob with good EP's...as for the storage and moving a dob that would not be a problem for me...if it gives me lots to chew on then its worth every backache i get ;)

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I'd get the scope first and think about eyepieces after you have used it for a while. I'd not recommend the GSO 2" eyepiece for an F/5 scope to be honest.

The essential equipment to get with the scope would be:

- a cheshire collimation eyepiece (the scope will need to be collimated )

- a red torch

- a good skyguide

The rest (and there is so much choice in that !) can follow later.

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I've just noticed you are thinking of a Meade 12" dobsonian. I used to have one of these (the Lightbridge 12"). It was a good scope but needed quite a lot of "tweaking" before it was really useful. You will need a light shroud to go around the truss tubes so it's worth adding that to the extras list (or look into making one). The supplied eyepiece and red dot finder are not that good either so more room for upgrades there. Personally, if I were in the market for a 12" dob again I'd go for a Skywatcher Flextube I think or a solid tube but they have dropped those from the range now I believe. The Flextubes will need a light shroud too.

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thx jahmason your right....guess my excitement is getting the better of me right now...gonna look at that stuff you mention in detail later thx..;) ...its just buying a big scope with one EP seems a bit limited with more viewing options with say one or two more at my side....i take it a dew shield is a must ?...think it comes with one will check..

i see a 8" dob mentioned twice .....is there a fine line between a 8" 10" and a 12" regarding what can be seen ?... i was only thinking 12" due to my location being ****.... ;)

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You don't really need a dew shield with a newtonian / dobsonian scope (a dobsonian is a newtonian on a simple mount). A light shroud keeps stray light from coming into the tube through the struts. It stops dew falling onto the primary mirror too.

2 eyepieces will get you started. Many folks have a set of 4-5 to give a full range of options.

An 8" scope captures 4x as much light as your 4" one did. A 12" captures more again and you do notice the difference. Your light pollution may be the determining factor in what you can see, rather than the scope size though. Light pollution kills the views of the fainter deep sky objects unfortunately.

Under dark skies my 6" scope performed as well on deep sky objects as my 10" on does from my moderately light polluted back garden.

As others have hinted, a 12" is a big scope and you would not be the 1st to buy one full of enthusiasm only to find it's too much hassle to get out and use on a regular basis. I down sized from a 12" to a 10" and use the latter far more.

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just looked at a skywatcher skyliner 250px flextube with goto.....

its in my budget just about .....me is thinking this is what you mean ? slightly more expensive but that "goto" thingy looks intresting and helpfull ;)

one without the goto system is lots cheaper and i only been to one site so could be even more cheaper if i dig deeper... if i get that then more essential accessories can be bought later ;) ....so we can safely say its a dob i need...and plenty more homework in choosing one...thanx once again i sleep now feeling a bit better knowing im on the right tracks at last and not guessing too much...my little girl is intrested too and want her to get the best out of the skies even tho its not the best place where we live,,, and without killing the piggy bank too much either....been great help here so many thankies :) :)

karly ;)

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I too have been looking around for an eventual upgrade from my little 3" reflector on an altaz mount...it is really cool to play with be also want to look at fainter objects and get some astrophotography in eventually...I was looking at the 12" dobs as well but wanted to eventually have the ability to do some decently serious photographing so I am pretty much decided on an 8" goto dob...makes it easy to move aorund and it is big enough to get some good light in...you will have the scope a long time I would honestly not go super big because you never know you will probably be able to eventually get out a big more and 8-10" will be much easier to move around than a 12" dob. Trust me from my little experience and others will say as well...your backyard will only show you so much because of the pollution...I am fortunate enough to drive 5 or so miles away and the views go from barely seeing M45 to easier picking out every single main start in M45 and some stars surounding it...the difference in location is much more dependant on what you see as opposed to scope size. however, if you can manage a 12" in a car and aren't bothered with moving it around obviously it will be way better at a dark location...for a first scope though a good 8-10" dob would probably be the way to go. Might be able to fogoe a 12" and get a smaller one with goto capabilities...just gives you more options but kinda takes away the thrill of searching and finding the objects yourself.

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yep a 10" looks more realistic...i can always upgrade when im more experience in few years shud i need to ( even tho ive just dragged meself away from looking at a 14" scope :) ).....that wud break my back i know it wud !!...i see what u mean about the "goto" thing....may take a little fun outa the hunt...but on the other hand it would find things out there that i would not have looked for or missed so "educational" perhaps....not sure if that can be turned off/on at will tho....also there is a "auto" model as well without the "goto" fuction if im right....i take it that is a must for tracking objects rather than giving the scope a goood old fashioned directional featherd "poke" ?...;)

oh ..just looked at the wieght of a 12" dob......thats pretty damm heavy...even split into two....how wrong was i thinking they were light !! ;)

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I had a play with a 14" dobsonian earlier this year. Definately a 2 person job to set up - even moving the base really needs 2 people. Had a look through a 20" dob last year - it was about as big as a small car - no kidding !. Wonderful views though !.

My old Meade Lightbridge 12" weighed around 85 lbs all in. 45lbs was the optical tube (most of that was the mirror !) and the rest the base / mount.

My 10" newtonian (by the UK's Orion Optics) weighs just 20lbs for the tube and 15lbs for a mount - I can move the whole lot around the garden in one piece. And, of course, it gets used a lot ......

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Hi Karlyboo,

I have both of the scopes that you are looking at. ( the dob is a 12" Revelation not Meade). Both scopes are excellent and whichever you decide on you will not be disappointed.

The nexstar 6 offers an easy setup and the benefit of being able to find object with the goto software. If you are in Liverpool and have a lot of lighht that might be an advantage. You will however need to buy a powerpack. The nexstar eats batteries, its just not practical.

The Revelation as mentioned by other members is BIG but it gives a big bang for your buck. eaven easier to set up, although it takes longer to get to correct temp. but once it is ready to go you can find objects easily and the images are stunning.

With either scope you will have something to keep you busy for years to come.

RK

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There's some really great advice in this thread which is fantastic to see. The 12" is a very big scope and is quite heavy for moving around. The light pollution that yoou have mentioned is probably going to be a limiting factor but if you can get out to some star parties then you'll really see the full capability of the scope.;)

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.... the dob is a 12" Revelation not Meade....

The OP mentioned " a meade dob 12" in the opening post in this thread so I assumed a Lightbridge 12".

The Revelations and Lightbridges use the same optical sets and mirror cells, made by GSO.

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yeps some great valuable advice here and answers so swift too ...i see ive landed on my feet first in choosing this forum for any advice regarding astronomy so many thanks to all !!.....;)

im happy and set on a 10" dob now with given advice and more research .....even tho i do expect i wont get the dob at its best due to light pollution. travelling with will be a big nono as i dont have transport so garden will have to do....with two days of viewing in a toyish borrowed telescope and countless years of being glued to a pair of sadsocks (no-name)8x42 bino's under my belt then im sure i will still be more than happy with some dark skies i will get over the next few months and years with something that can give me better than what i have....i love the idea of DSO hunting and fully know that images aint what they are in books with blooming colour etc....bigger smudges than binos is what i expect on a very dark night but thats fine :) if the views i got of saturn,venus,jupiter and the moon are twice as better than that toyish telescope i had for two days then BINGO ! :)

im now sure ive asked every question a newbie can ask and more so i will keep ye all posted to what dob i get and what my thoughts are when i use it for first time so if any newbies like me are out there it will aid there understanding as it can be a mine field out there for us !! ;)

karly ;)

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Hi Karly, totally agree with your choice of scope, but don't look at ep's until you get used to the scope, of the ep's you have mentioned, you don't need any more wide-field, you get a decent one with the scope, you'll probably want more magnification for the planets and the moon. Really you'll only ever use one wide-field and the 26mm QX will do for the time being. I agree GSO are not always the best quality, look around elsewhere, though GSO are often at the root of a lot of ep manufacture, but there are better out there, just wait until you have used the scope and know what you want to look at.

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