Which is better for astrophotography

[TROJAN]

I am already the proud owner of a Skywatcher 200p but now really want to get into astrophotography. Is my 200p a good choice for attaching a DSLR and / or a webcam - Or is it better that I reserve it for viewing and get another scope for the photography side of things ? - if a second scope is the best way forward, Which of the following scopes would be best suited - Celestron Omni XLT 120mm Refractor. or Celestron Omni XLT 150mm Refractor - the 120 has a focal ratio of 8.33 and a focal length of 1000mm - whilst the 150 has a focal ratio of 5 and a focal length of 750mm ?

[Quatermass]

If you have the 200p you have a great scope for astrophotoraphy. take a look at my blog theres a post on there detailing how I go about taking my shots. I have just got a canon 350d for my second camera but all my pics were done with the 200p with a single axis drive. Been using it for a year now and love it. The EQ5 mount does a good job as well.

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[brantuk]

A lot of folks image with the 200P with great results - just have to watch coma but you can get correctors for that in newts. The important thing will be to have a decent mount. I wouldn't want to use anything less than an HEQ5 with that ota - preferably an EQ6. Stability is most important.

Faster scopes (ie lower f-ratios) will collect the photons quicker than slower scopes (high f-ratios). So f-5 is good in a newt. Also short tube wide field appo's of f6 or under are popular and reasonably priced (especially s/h). HTH

[TROJAN]

Thankyou ! Ive either been reading too much, or the wrong articles as several people have told me that the 200p was not the best choice for photography. However having just looked at Quatermass's blog I am totally reassured. Thankyou as well Kim your imput ,it always very much appreciated as I value your knowledge and opinions. Tarn

[Odd Dob]

As an aside, I'm sure people always used to recommend refractors for astrophotography, and more and more people seem to be using and recommending Newtonians lately. Is that a trend or is that just me misremeberifying?

[Quatermass]

I would echo Brantuks statement about the mount being very important for astrophotography the EQ5 mount is fine if you dont over load it but once you start adding more and more stuff you start losing the stability you need. I think my set up is as light as you would want to go but if I could afford the EQ6 I would certainly use it. You have to make a balance between cost and performance and for me the EQ5 and the 200p are just right.. for now anyways

I started off with my Lumix G1 should have got a canon but its still a good camera. First attempt was the Orion Nebula on a cold winter night I had just got the adapter so was quite excited to have a go. Put the scope up and did a quick polar alignment the lined up on the Orion Nebula and put the camera in. I used my live view to focus with as I had not heard of the Bahtinov Mask to focus with and just started taking photos of the Nebula. I think I took about 30 shots at an ISO of 800 and 30 seconds then 5 with the cap on the telescope for my darks. I had no idea what I was doing really just wanted to have a go. I got in from out of the cold and put the pictures through deep sky stacker which is free and easy to use then when that was done put the results in photoshop and had a go. Looking back I had a lot to learn about the processing and darks and flats ect but that was all I need to get me going and I loved doing. So give it a go Orion will be coming up in the skies in the winter months and makes for a great first time target. Just be prepared to become obsessed by it lol

This was my first shot and the start of it all.

[TROJAN]

Wow ! That shot is amazing, First attempt or not. I have a Nikon D50 and a Nikon D90 and am going to try using those. I will make the moon my first target, then maybe jupiter and Orion is looking a must - Tnankyou all - Tarn

[Quatermass]

Look forward to seeing what you come up with the moon will be ok but jupiter may well require a webcam set up for better images. You take a short video with the webcam and then stack the video in registax free software to get your final shot. But with Orion coming up do have a go at it such good fun on a cold winters night lol

after I got that shot I persevered in the cold winter nights and came up with this one after much trail and error. Hoping to get an even better one this winter.

[JohnnyD333]

As an aside, I'm sure people always used to recommend refractors for astrophotography, and more and more people seem to be using and recommending Newtonians lately. Is that a trend or is that just me misremeberifying?

Refractors, especially the triplets like an ED120, are superior for astrophotography. However, most people dont have thousands of dollars to spend on a scope alone. Fast newtonians produce great images and are much cheaper. They may not have the same quality as a good refractor, but they are a great and more affordable option.

[ollypenrice]

Don't go near those achromatic refractors for imaging. The colour correction is not within a million miles of being acceptable. You need an apochromatic refractor or just to stick with your Newt.

The Newt is a good choice optically but will need a bit more input from you with regard to collimation. The reason small refractors are popular (I'm a fan) is that they are easy. They are small, don't catch the wind, don't need collimating and snap into focus. But the Newt grabs more light in the time. I'd stick with that since you have it.

If ever you'd like to try a refractor the ED80 is truly a killer performer, almost on a par with the magabucks small refractors quite honestly.

Do you have, Making Every Photon Count by Steve Richards? Read as much as you can before spending or you'll be sure to spend twice.

Olly

[Marmite]

If ever you'd like to try a refractor the ED80 is truly a killer performer, almost on a par with the magabucks small refractors quite honestly.

Yes! Around a zillion astrophotographers can't be wrong and about a zillion astrophotographers own and use the ED80! Definitely a milestone scope.

[Keiran]

If you dont want to spend any money then the 200P is a great place to start... That is where i started, and it gives amazing results...

http://stargazerslounge.com/members/bulldog_keiran-albums-dso-picture8006-m42-12-30sec-iso-800-09-12-10.jpg

My frist attempt at orion was with the 200p

And then there is M27...

http://stargazerslounge.com/members/bulldog_keiran-albums-my-best-picture6720-m27-re-worked.jpg

And M31....

http://stargazerslounge.com/members/bulldog_keiran-albums-dso-picture7305-m31-16-17-10-10-data2.jpg

These were all when i was starting out, so what you can expect as a beginner... and all unguided with a DSLR.

It is really a great place to start and to learn the ropes

[TROJAN]

You guys are absolutely amazing. If i can learn to take photos half as good I will be pleased. At last I have found my ideal hobby and my Nikon T ring is in the post. I dont want to end up being the person who has all the gear and no idea, but i really do want to achieve great results. I even looked at the celestron advanced C11 sgt xlt telescope which Harrisons have on offer at the moment - its on a CG4 Mount - with go to - would that be a vast step up ?

[rocketandroll]

I'd avoid any of the catadioptric scopes for imaging really. They aren't ideal for DSO imaging... pretty good for planetary though I believe.

Id agree with the advice given so far... its really all about the mount. If you want to upgrade... buy a NEQ6 and use that with the 200P for now... then maybe look at an apochromatic refractor or two later on.

Have fun... its horribly addictive!!!!

Ben

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[riklaunim]

Big Newtonian is something I wouldn't recommend for a starter DS astrophotography. It's a big scope and it's hard to manage such scope when imaging I would rather recommend small ED refractor or at least smaller Newtonian to limit the annoyances that may ocurr

[ollypenrice]

You guys are absolutely amazing. If i can learn to take photos half as good I will be pleased. At last I have found my ideal hobby and my Nikon T ring is in the post. I dont want to end up being the person who has all the gear and no idea, but i really do want to achieve great results. I even looked at the celestron advanced C11 sgt xlt telescope which Harrisons have on offer at the moment - its on a CG4 Mount - with go to - would that be a vast step up ?

No, it would be an abject nightmare. With a DSLR you need a fast f ratio. In any imaging setup you need more mount than telescope.

Big is not better unless big is for the mount. A small, high quality, over-mounted telescope of fast F ratio will eat the reverse for breakfast.

A small fast refractor would be easier than a Newt but you have a decent Newt. Why not start there and then see what floats your imaging boat once you have experienced the issues.

Olly

[JohnnyD333]

No, it would be an abject nightmare. With a DSLR you need a fast f ratio. In any imaging setup you need more mount than telescope.

Big is not better unless big is for the mount. A small, high quality, over-mounted telescope of fast F ratio will eat the reverse for breakfast.

A small fast refractor would be easier than a Newt but you have a decent Newt. Why not start there and then see what floats your imaging boat once you have experienced the issues.

Olly

Exactly right:icon_salut:

If it hasnt been mentioned, you really need to get a book on astrophotography. There is a common misconception that bigger is better in the imaging world. Maybe in the observing world, but quality optics, mounts, and cameras far outweigh the focal length of your scope when imaging. Please avoid any SCT or Mak for the time being and do the research. It will save you lots of money and headaches.

[TROJAN]

Thankyou so much for all the advice - I will read as much as I can, Try out the 200p, see how I go and perhaps advance in the future - regards Tarn

[brantuk]

Nothing wrong with Sct's or Maks - it's just that you need the right tool for the job and these are far superior for imaging planets cos they have longer focal lengths and higher f-ratios which lend themselves nicely to sharpness, contrast, and short exposure. So planets and moon are great with a webcam in one of these.

For observing dso's the tool of choice is a huge aperture newtonian - usually dob mounted. But for imaging dso's a fast f-ratio wide field appo is very good with a dslr and long exposure, and the short tube versions are quite affordable (ED80. Meg72, etc). But a fast newtonian of average size like your 200P is also good so long as it's rock solid on a substantial mount. It also won't be bad with a webcam on planets. Give it a go and I think you'll be surprised

[ollypenrice]

Yes, I stress that my comment about imaging with an SCT was limited to the terms of this thread, ie starting out in DS imaging on the mount in question.

As Brantuk says, the SCT is the king of planetary imaging. Damian Peach cannot possibly have got this wrong!

Olly

[TROJAN]

[TROJAN]

Above is my first attempt at the moon with the 200p using a Nikon D50 DSLR. The moon was high in the sky and very bright - I used an ISO setting of 160 for this image - but the main problem I feel was with camera shake - I know what you guys mean about having the right mount and i see an EQ6 mount on the near horizon - Tarn

[Quatermass]

Thats a fine shot I took one last night of the moon trying out my canon 350D. If you have photo shop try using filters- unsharp filter it crisps up the craters nicely.

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[TROJAN]

Thankou !...... unfortunately I havent got photoshop, perhaps that needs to be my next purchase over the mount ? I think I might need to re - mortgage....

[brantuk]

Congrats on your first moon pic Tarn

Which camera did you use? and what processing package do you have? - there are plenty of free to download packages on the net - see if "Gimp" has a "sharpen/unsharpen" facility.

Of course the moon was very bright - you will get better results on a quarter or crescent moon. But for the conditions and considering it's your first attempt you've done a good job there