Grab and Go

[spaceboy]

Sorry guys I know this gets asked so many times but I'm going to have to ask it again.

Targets I must get a good view of are M8, M20, m28 and pretty much all of the targets in Sagittarius. Maximum budget is £150 and this has to include scope and mount.

I do have in mind a Heritage 130p so peoples views on this scope are welcomed. I know some form of table will be required but this is no issue as I'm thinking some rural areas where I might use it will have picnic benches.

Will probably get pointed at planets but DSO's will be the main targets.

If anyone can be bothered with yet another grab and go thread I would appreciate your suggestions.

[rawhead]

I have a 130P OTA that needs a good home

Sits OK on a EQ2. Still quite a heavy set-up.

How light does it need to be?

I use an ST80 on a camera tripod.

Never gone after the targets you list though. Still struggle without a goto

[nicnac]

i use a mak 90 on horizon 8115 mount but im going to mirror rawheads ST80 for general use

[spaceboy]

So refractors are the way to go then ?

[ollypenrice]

Your objects are faint and low for northern observers. At lat 44 I can 'see them' (which means I can tell that they're there) in a 50mm finder. To get an enjoyable view - one which shows the dust lanes in the Trifid for instance - our 140 apo is about the minimum and that from an extremely dark site.

Your best bet has to be the biggest Dobsonian Newt you can afford.

Olly

[spaceboy]

I have the 10" dob and a dark site. The trouble is the dark site in on land where the guy takes no risks when it comes to his kids. I respect this so agreed to giving him a bell each time before going. The trouble is the targets I mention are at there best during the late nights of summer and ringing anyone with kids at 1 am is out of the question. For this reason I was going to settle for a lay by or country park with a grab and go scope that I can quickly pack up should I consider there's any [removed word] Turpin's about. The dark site where I visit yielded good views of the above targets in my 15x70's but I would have appreciated having more magnification.

[nicnac]

short tube wide field, thats what i would go for

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-102-eq1.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-80-eq1.html

EQ1 isnt exactly super fab n great but will do nicely for visual and less than £200

[Moonshane]

I think the problem with this sort of question is that the answer always incorporates a compromise. if you want small aperture then a small frac would be good but for your budget the scope will be limited to an achro and therefore planets will be poor generally I fear.

if you want more aperture then you either need a large mount, an expensive alt-az mount or a dob.

if I were you, I'd do a little more map searching and ringing round/visiting people in the area to organise a different site. that way you can take your 10" dob which would provide a completely different view to an 80mm frac or a 130mm newt.

you know all this of course but I thought I'd mention my own views.

incidentally, I am now set on a 130mm newt as I want to compare this directly with my 90mm frac for the place of my wide field scope.

I suspect the 130mm newt will be better generally and I can also create a mini truss dob in a box for holidays etc rather than trying to suss how to get a giro, 90mm frac and tripod into my suitcase or on the plane!

[Moonshane]

ps I'll have my 90mm frac at PSP so you can see how this performs and hopefully I'll have a 130mm newt too by then.

[spaceboy]

Thanks Shane. I agree I need a new dark site but where I go is a rural area with mag 5.75 skies. Unfortunately it comes at the cost of not having much more than the odd farm or equestrian around.

Thanks for the offer of looking through your G&G but the plan was to get hold of a grab and go for PSP as the sale of my skymax now means the wife has nothing to have a look through.

[Moonshane]

Ah, cheers mate, I see your dilemma. I suspect that a Heritage would be pretty decent to be honest especially at a dark site. if you don't get sorted then I may be so absorbed with the big dob that I won't use the frac too much. if this is the case then it might be possible to loan it you you for a day or two. we'll see how it goes.

[spaceboy]

Thank you for the kind offer Shane. I hope I get some thing sorted as I don't think the wife would ever forgive me if I make her sleep in a cold tent for several nights just to watch me glued to the EP. It's going to be bad enough if we suffer the great British weather and she has to listen to all the astronomy waffle that will be going on

[Moonshane]

no worries mate, play it by ear.

there certainly seem to be a few heritages scattered about so if they will do the trick you should be fine.

[spaceboy]

Looking at the options a frak would have needed a mount of some kind and due to the overall cost I would have had to wait on the second hand market offering some thing suitable. With a wife already unhappy at the thought of camping a son wanting a better scope than the 70AZ Santa brought him and me wanting a quick and easy grab and go I figured I may as well go with the Heritage 130P. The truss design means it is compact, the dob base is sturdy and the mirror isn't a bad size. I can easily make a light shield to stop any stray light if it becomes a problem although I don't see it being one at dark sites. The biggest seller is that I wont have the wife nagging we have another scope sat in the corner of living room as it can easily fit in a pillow case and go on top of a wardrobe or in a cupboard.

If it is an improvement over my 15x70 bins I'm happy. If it puts a smile on my sons face that he now has a scope that actually works I'm happy. If it means I'm not going to get cold on one side of the air bed at PSP I'M GONA BE REAL HAPPY

[Damo636]

I think that should keep you warm in the airbed

Nice one, lovely little scope those.

[bish]

Your wife is very understanding - is that 5 scopes now? I've got away with 2 but a 3rd will probably be pushing it a bit.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The 130 seems a great choice. Lots of aperture for little dosh. I am going to turn my little 4.5" F/4.4 newt into a "table-top Dob" for the kids to have fun with (and I could get a bit more aperture when camping). If I did not have this option, the 130 Heritage would probably be my choice.

[spaceboy]

It will be interesting to see how it performs under dark skies. Not so much optically as the Heritage is said to have the same mirror set as the 130P solid tube which for it's size appears to perform well from what I have read and the images I have seen. It's more the flexi dob design which if I'm honest dose have an air of flimsiness to it. Despite this I just can't help liking the fact you can grab the handle on the rocker box shove a couple cheap EP's & collimator in your pocket and away you go. I'm already picturing myself at a camp site lying on a picnic blanket on a warm summer night taking in the Milky way over head

I'm always reluctant spending money on less aperture but for the £129 delivered I doubt I could have found any thing else that ticks all the boxes. A similar sized refractor was probably going to give CA on the moon and planets and would have required a HD camera tripod or mount so all in all I'm happy with the purchase.

Your wife is very understanding - is that 5 scopes now? I've got away with 2 but a 3rd will probably be pushing it a bit.

5 scopes all with there own purpose I tell her. Need the big dob to make the journey to dark skies worth it. My Dad spent ages building the observatory I have to put some thing in it. Sorry but you just can't beat a refractor on the moon, it's all about the contrast. I'm not using my best scopes to look at the sun it'll fade the paint work. I'm not going camping out in the middle of no where miles away from any LP and not want to take in the night sky besides our boy needs a new scope and you will want some thing to do at PSP

[spaceboy]

This gives you an idea just how small and portable they are

[bish]

I must take some notes

[spaceboy]

I managed to get myself an hour outside under partly cloudy skies to give the heritage a first light going over. As always I try to be as critical as I can but admit on this occasion I had no choice but to don the rose tinted glasses for the best part of the session. The reason for this was as you may have guessed there is an almost full moon high in the sky and the scope has no sides.

In a nut shell and taking into consideration the above I would have to take off the rose tinted glasses and replace them with a pair of beer goggles to find any thing performance wise good about the Heritage 130P. I have read some good reviews on this scope and second hand they always seem to hold there price. In theory sure it's a highly portable compact all in one 5" power house but in practice I honestly don't think it works. I find it such a shame as it has so much potential as being a perfect grab and go set up. The easiest way I can think of reviewing my first light is a for and against list. I had spent the day ensuring the collimation was smack on and checked again before observing.

FOR:

1)It is very portable. It can be carried comfortably in one hand.

2)The dobsonian base works very well and offers a sturdy smooth tracking support.

3)It looks good.

4)The wide field views can be breath taking.

AGAINST:

1)Even under dark skies I see the open design causing problems. Due to the way the scope is orientated on the mount it is comfortable to use in most positions but the secondary is exposed in such a way that a cold mirror and my warm breath meant on occasion I copped a glimpse of the secondary steaming up. The secondary is also badly exposed to dew and while you are looking in to the EP you actually shelter the secondary but if it was left for any length of time I would envisage it soon resembling a puddle.

2)The helical focuser although works rather well in concept was found to be very sloppy and easily knocked out of focus.

3)The coma is mind blowingly bad. I wouldn't put it all down to the mirrors but the Heritage's price tag cannot demand the use of TV's or any other high end EP and as such it can only be considered a budget scope expecting budget EP's to be used in it. This is where a combination of the Newtonian parabolic mirror design, cheap EP's and the flimsy feel of the scope works against the Heritage. I was noticing a trend to good and bad stars. On occasions the views were good at low powers and bad at high powers and so to the opposite. OK a fast newt is going to suffer coma so it was expected to see some even in a 50' FOV EP but this would at times extend into 60% of the view. My conclusion is at different focal points the helical focuser was becoming excessively sloppy and loose. This coupled with either a weighty long FL EP or an equally weighty barlow EP combination was causing flex in the focuser and the some what flimsy plastic focuser holder was in effect causing the light path and so collimation to stray causing views on occasion to be only just bearable.

4) The focus is practically none existent with next to no leeway either side of hitting the nail on the head.

5) The truss design works OK but these scopes really do need to come shipped with a light shroud as standard.

It is a difficult call for me to make as I have never really owned a budget scope before. I have become accustomed to quality optics compensating for any aberrations and you have to expect a little bit of give and take on such a design. Despite the open design it really wasn't that bad given the full moon was lighting the entire garden but there is no doubt it requires a shroud from the off as the secondary is just too exposed to other elements. The low power wide field views were great to see but the stars were rarely pin sharp even at the center. Jupiter was surprisingly detailed and of a good size but it was again difficult to get Jupiter and the moons sharp all at once. The moon was again surprisingly pleasant to look at and at center of view would come up reasonably sharp after some effort.

Would I recommend this scope NO am I going to get cold at PSP YES

The Heritage 130P is a nice scope and the concept is great but there are too many short comings to make this a serious observing aid in my honest opinion. This said there really isn't much else out there in this price bracket new and it dose give some OK views if not perfect so it might suit a beginner who lives in a bed sit and space is at a premium.

You win some you loose some. Such is life!

[jimmyjamjoejoe]

All of a sudden your sig makes sense

Sorry to hear you don't get on with it. I'l take this one off my list of maybes.

What does the missus reckon though? Does she have the taste for higher quality optics like yourself?

[LukeSkywatcher]

I have the Heritage 130P and i have to say i LOVE it. I agree with you about a couple of things such as the position of the secondary mirror and the focuser. But other then that i have no complaints. I also use a couple of more expensive EP's with the scope (Vixens) and i find them to work amazingly well.

I'm no expert, but i like the views i get and am more then happy with this scope.

[spaceboy]

Thats why it's there What works or dosen't work for me may work or dosen't work for you.

I really am gutted. For me it was looking like it was going to tick all the boxes and for the best part did. I agree it did give some good views but I felt it simply wasn't consistant enough in delivering them.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I can only put that fact down to atmospherics for the large part.

Great signature btw. It basically sums up things in a nutshell.