WOOOOO a video astro group! :)

[johnno]

Hi Brian and welcome to the VA section, the only mod you need to do on the 2000p is the removal of the ir filter like Davy said, about a 20 min job and your up and running, that's if you've got a video grabber,
 
take a look at this , all these are done with the 435 which is the same as a 2000p

http://astrovideography.blog.com/

Its like anything else, you get what you pay for,  2000p cheapest, I bet you can pick one up over in the states used for about 40-50 dollars

 then it starts to climb all the way up to over 800 to 1000 plus usd for the best, the likes of Mallincam, you'll have to do a search for astro video camera's in the states there is more variety over there than there is here.     John

[DoctorD]

Hi Brian

Welcome to the group - mods of the cameras we use need only the most basic modification - removing the IR filter.

You can have a go at cooling and other mods, but you can get great results without going there.

As you seem to be based in the US, you might want to look at the LN Tech 300 camera - this site offers modified cameras

http://www.astro-video.com/

Or you can get the basic camera here:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Mini-Real-WDR/577804472.html

You'll need a CS-1.25" nose piece as a minimum and a 12V power supply

Hope this helps.

Paul 

[Brians238]

Thank you all!  What a wonderful welcome! The cams mentioned look very promising. At the risk of asking an obvious question, how do you achieve long exposures with something like the 435, 2000p, or the unmodded Sony 960H? My board camera has the same chip as the 960H and I added the capability to capture video via USB. I can't remember the name of the capture package I used (it wasn't freeware), but it was supposed to integrate the frames captured into a single image. A star like Vega would overload the sensor almost immediately, but I could not get an image of even the brightest DSOs (like M13). I assume that the 30fps capture rate was the issue. How do you capture DSO images in real time with these cameras?

Thanks again for all your help.

Best Regards,

Brian

[johnno]

Hi Brian, this is roughly what you need for the 2000p to connect to your computer

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-Heavy-Duty-Triple-Phono-3-RCA-AV-Audio-Video-Cable-Lead-Gold-3-RCA-to-3-RCA-/360735370991?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item53fd80eeef

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-2-0-Video-Audio-Grabber-Digital-Video-Recorder-/190912821920?pt=UK_Computing_TV_Tuner_Video_Capture_Devices&hash=item2c734a7aa0

you only need to use the yellow lead .

and one of these, you can get all these items from your local radio shack.. you only need one of these connectors.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-BNC-MALE-TO-RCA-PHONO-FEMALE-CONNECTOR-CCTV-/390654836409?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Coax_Cables_Connectors&hash=item5af4d7beb9

and you need a 1.25  to c mount nose piece and a 12 volt power supply

The 2000p stacks the images internally up to 8 secs at its highest setting, in other words it stacks a image on top of a image every 8 seconds with a shutter speed of 1/ 50 ..the camera is very sensitive compared to a board camera

and there is many freeware software you can choose,

A few example of exposure times.

M57    1.1 seconds

M82    4.2

M28    8.5

     John

[DoctorD]

Hi Brian

The Samsung and other cameras have a feature called SENSUP effectively holding the shutter open for multiple fields (1/50 or 1/60s each).

The SDC435/SCB2000 supports upto x512 which equates to 8.5 seconds for an NTSC camera and about 10 seconds for a PAL camera.

HTH

Paul

[hoops86]

Guys can i ask a stupid question about this SENSUP thing.... how do i turn this on? in the menu it just has ---- beside it and i cant change anything

[johnno]

Brian, the 960h is a sensitive board camera but I don't know how the sens-up works, what I can find on the board camera is that I think you need to have a control box  [ unless you have already got one ] to access the menu, unless that software your using can access the menu . Sorry cant help you more on the 960h.

The Samsung has 14 different sens-up settings .  Looked at the manual for the 960h and there is a sens-up menu in there but it's different to how its configured to the Samsung. But it seems to have all the other menu settings similar to the Sammy.

Effio-S.pdf

[Macavity]

See Above.  Just a few more random thoughts...

Re. board cameras - I have a £60 B&W "ExView" miniature spy(!) cam,

- As a "Finder Cam". It can "see" stars to Mag +8 or so, with 4" 'Frac. 

The quoted sensitivity is 0.0003 lux @ f1.4 (eminently believable!). A

plain-vanilla sensitive cam is approx. the same sensitivity as the eye.

But with typical DSO brightness a bit beyond that - Individual Globular

cluster stars Mag +10-12, Galaxy surface brightness +11-14 etc., you 

will need longer exposures, manual control over gain, gamma setup etc.

Dedicated electronics buffs modify board cams, but unless you're into

de-soldering surface mounted chip pins, soldering hair-like wires etc?

(Fellow nerds can) Work it out? Five magnitudes = 100x in brightness.

To get from (just) Mag +8 to (just) +13 you need: 100 x 1/50 s = 2 sec.

exposure. To image "DSOs" clearly, integrations 256x, 512x, 1024x ...

A bit more than (the example) 4" aperture is always helpful on galaxies /

diffuse nebulae, fainter stuff etc. But that's always somewhat true...

[johnno]

Hoops, that's right sensup ------, go to exposure click on it, then to shutter click on it and then use left / right arrow key to change this to manual, once in manual use L or R key to flick through the settings and you will see all the sens-up settings.

when you use manual shutter the sensup menu will show ------- , that is correct, hope you can follow this     John

[hoops86]

Ahhh ok cheers John. So the sensup is just basically the integration settings then i.e. x256, x512?

[johnno]

Ahhh ok cheers John. So the sensup is just basically the integration settings then i.e. x256, x512?

Yep

[Dragon Man]

Welcome Brian 

Before you throw cash to the wind, check out actual Live Screengrabs and Live videos from the cameras you are investigating.

They are in You Tube, and often in Google Images.

Just type in the type of camera and 'Astro' and you will get info with pics on each brand/model.

But beware of Advertising hype.

Some brands of cameras use Stacked processed images to promote the quality of their video cameras.

That isn't very helpful when you want to use the camera for what it is made for: Live Viewing.

I have seen some amazing Live Screengrabs of what the simple Samsung SCB-2000 can do, but I've also seen some terrible blotchy noisy Live Screengrabs from far better cameras.

So you'll probably need to look at a few sources for each camera to get an average.

Some examples: 

The cheap little Samsung SCB-2000 Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR6IjPlIJiM

Another sample of Samsung SCB-2000: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1dBGWew_CA

My Video from my Samsung SCB-4000 Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHiCNmYdkaE

Mono Gstar-Ex Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6rWxIGEvxY and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZa806NCUKw

Cameras that don't have any public screengrab images or videos might not be the best purchase. If they were good there would be videos or pics 

Well, that's my reasoning LOL!

But search out how good each one is. Also take notice of what scopes and filters were used, and whether they were in dark sky or light polluted cities, and match the ones to your sky conditions.

[Brians238]

Everyone,

Thank you for the excellent advice and guidance.  Ken--thanks for the links--I'm investigating all the options. I have access to an ASI120MM and a 120MC. I took a look at the MC, but it was very noisy and lacked sensitivity. The MM looks much more capable, but I have not attached it to a scope yet. The Samsungs look like a much cheaper alternative (especially for color) and seem to be capable of producing the results I need for the educational application. But I will follow the good advice you guys gave me and dig a little more.

Thanks and Best,

Brian

[Dragon Man]

Everyone,

Thank you for the excellent advice and guidance.  Ken--thanks for the links--I'm investigating all the options. I have access to an ASI120MM and a 120MC. I took a look at the MC, but it was very noisy and lacked sensitivity. The MM looks much more capable, but I have not attached it to a scope yet. The Samsungs look like a much cheaper alternative (especially for color) and seem to be capable of producing the results I need for the educational application. But I will follow the good advice you guys gave me and dig a little more.

Thanks and Best,

Brian

Sorry to sound dumb Brian, but what are:  ASI120MM and a 120MC? and MM and MC?

You say the "MM looked much more capable" (MM?),  and the "MC was noisy and lacked sensitivity" (MC?)

[Steve_Max127]

Hi Ken

They are the ZWoptical range of video cams

Www.zwoptical.com/eng/Cameras/ASI120/index.asp

[Dragon Man]

Thanks Steve 

[jturner9]

UH I must be lost. I hear this is some sort of video astronomy hang out.  I don't know much about it , but it sure sounds fun to me.

I thought them video people were shunned and pushed away as a side note of some sort. How in the world did they get a place in here?

[shirva]

welcome jim to sgl va forum....it was a quiet wee place for a while but like a petulant child its grown kicking and screaming to where it is....only kidding ..lol...its a great bunch of folk just trying to learn and teach others there is life outside astrophotography,, and it s a hobby, we all do it to relax and for sheer enjoyment and if you believe that you will believe anything,,,,lol...its a brilliant place to come and chill and have a laugh and pick up info and tips from others,,no air's and graces here all here to help each other...davy

[jturner9]

Yes been on SGL for a while now , but they never really had a Video forum. At least not any that I saw. Ken told me it has chanegd. I see that.

Good to know it is here.

[johnno]

Hi Jim, welcome to the VA section, like Davy said, its growing slowly,  quite a few of us are just starting out with VA  and the more experience one's on here are pointing us in the right direction.  john

[Carl Reade]

Oh no! We've been discovered!........

[Dragon Man]

Onya Jimmy boy,  good to see you in this section mate 

Come on, talk them into broadcasting on Night Skies Network 

[johnno]

Onya Jimmy boy,  good to see you in this section mate 

Come on, talk them into broadcasting on Night Skies Network 

I read somewhere in the rules and regs ,[ I might be wrong ] that if you don't broadcast in so many weeks that you loose your account so I've only registered for viewing due to the bad weather we keep getting over here

[Dragon Man]

Jim will have to answer on his policies, but I think I remember something like if you haven't done a broadcast in 6 months your account shuts down, or some such thing.

Some people got a channel, did 1 or 2 broadcasts and never went back, not even as a viewer, so they lost their channel.

Which is fair, because then it frees up space so others that want to broadcast can have a channel. 

[Dragon Man]

I read somewhere in the rules and regs ,[ I might be wrong ] that if you don't broadcast in so many weeks that you loose your account so I've only registered for viewing due to the bad weather we keep getting over here

Ahhh, here it is. Rule number 5 on signing up as a Broadcaster:

5. Any channel not used within the first three weeks of it's creation, or a channel that becomes inactive for 8 months WILL BE REMOVED.

You will have to re-apply for a new channel once it has been removed.

So, if you sign up, but don't do anything with your channel in the first 3 weeks, you lose it.

You will find that you will want to use your channel in the first few days!!! 

You will want to check that it works for you, that your software works in NSN, see if your camera gives good views etc, even on a cloudy day.

Test it at night on a distant streetlight if it is cloudy at night. Most people spend the first week testing their channel and their equipment through it.

But once up and running Jim has been generous in allowing 8 months between broadcasts because we all get struck with runs of bad weather, equipment failure etc.