Jupiter GRS Sept 1st final process

[AztecastroMcJ]

Sorry Stuart but need to get this of my chest,

would hate to lose Neil from this forum,

personally Neil Phillips and Darryl (Kolatha Man) are the main 2 people who help and advise people on here

regarding planetary imaging and they have certainly helped me the most

the mods seem to take advice given as critism at times, i've noticed this on number of threads

one of the best advissors and critiques on here was Brian B, i feel he has left due to mods not liking what is really his very experienced view

maybe i am wrong as i have no personal contact with Brian, but seems odd he suddenly vanished from forum ?

planetary imaging is difficult because of seeing, i could have 9/10 seeing once in 20 nights with maybe 8/10 on 2 or 3 nights with rest being usually 6-7/10 rubbish

so having a good/poor result is more likely down to seeing rather than capture/processing

the other thing is scientific v's art,

or forcing details more so they are obvious for comparing ovals say v's natural unforced appearance

i read article i think on SnT that all land based Jupiter shots are overprocessed, and they show hubble image to compare,

personally i like both looks, i like oversatured etc when done well

but also like less processed natural versions

i also prefer tiny bit of noise rather than totally smooth process

but that is my own personal preference

ok rant over,

Neil keep giving advice as its the only way we can improve,

James

[Space Cowboy]

Great shot Stu !

I'm joking of course, but your just getting better and better. That new cam seems to be working very well for you.

Watch out though I should be getting a 200p next week to add to the Mak for some planetary work.

Just got to get some clear skies ! Are you going to the Peak star party ?

Cheers Simon! Yeah this DFK rocks.You are certainly gathering an impressive collection of kit there Not going to the Peak party as I don't trust the weather lol

[Space Cowboy]

Great shot!

Personally, I wouldn't propse fiddling with any of the levels at all. You have captured Jupiter cleanly and crisply there. The colours are as natural as we can expect them, not been able to see Jupiter up close, so I think it's a good job all round.

I think that, sometimes, reference to Hubble images or those taken by others with different equipment, conditions etc, can cause one to expect certain results, which aren't necessarily there.

So, great shot, well done.

Thanks for your praise! I know when I was once a beginner like yourself it seemed hard to believe how such images could be improved upon but believe me this image is only the beginning being only my second session with the new 618 chipped DFK. As Neil said the luminance can be improved but I decided to leave it at this level to help the contrast as this was taken at 6.10am in daylight. There is another version posted on here http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-planetary/153902-jupiter-grs-sept-1st.html which has more luminance but to me looks washed out on certain monitors.

My equipment is capable of much more

[Space Cowboy]

11000 frames? Is that 60FPS over three minutes? I can only manage 30FPS on Jupiter with my DBK. Is yours the camera with the new imaging sensor? It must be at least twice as sensitive as my older version camera. Very impressive.

Thanks yes this was taken at 60fps @ 1/61 secs with the new DFK. I do plan to take a comparison shot with the spc900.

[Space Cowboy]

Neil/Stuart

Here is an example from last year with the standard DMK21 showing a nasty dose of ringing at 60fps. This was not present at 30fps.

regards

Peter

Thanks for your comments Peter!

My problem on this imaging session was onion rings caused by gain being too low on my 30fps 1/30 shots (far too poor for posting) and gamma being higher than my first session with the new DFK which had no ringing at all. Admittedly gamma was only 94 which I thought would be ok as Freddy mentioned he used the default setting of 100 but maybe his C14 allows for higher gamma without the ringing.

The 60fps shots are not as bad because gain was higher though its still a nuisance. The rgb splitting and recombining work has reduced the ring effect compared to the straight stacking in Registax http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-planetary/153902-jupiter-grs-sept-1st.html which with more frames (4000) exposed the ringing even more.

[Space Cowboy]

Cheers Alan!

Thanks James, yes this is 100% capture size (f30).

Totally agree with your comment on Neil and Darryl they are both inspirational for us!

Just looked at Neil's website and it still blows my mind. You are a genius Mr Philips!!

[neil phillips]

Just saw this, James thank you so much for your kind words. I hope evetything that is being said is seen for what it is. I really love astronomy and planetary imaging. i so enjoy talking imaging with all you guys, starting to feel like i have a shadow ready to pounce and dissagree everytime i give a veiwpoint.

im not sure why. But by what you just said. maybe its a pattern that i have only recently had the misfortune to experiance. As ive mentioned it feels not like just a disagreement. As is being suggested. But dissagreement for dissagreements sake. which is not astronomy but something else. lack of experiance sour grapes i havent a clue. but like you i just cant roll over and play dead. not when i belive i have done nothing wrong.

It has no place on a astronomy forum. But ill let others decide if thats true or not. Ive been told by others that they agree. But im not for one minute going to say more than that. I just hope the admins can stop those that seem to want to just cause disagreement for the sake of it.

Thats not a opinion, thats a bad day at the office i think ? i just dont know. Really i dont.

But James your a diamond. I actually want to stay, and i want you to stay. i just hope the admins can sort this out. ill admit its got me a bit phased. which i dont often get.

[neil phillips]

Stuart when we love something it comes easy. Though equipment is very important ive found. So Flo is invaluable here. What your doing with your dob, is also inspirational. infact more so. because its harder. i Hope those that are trying to up there game learn from what your doing. I think you should do a thread outlining the cost of your equipment. and what can be achieved with such said equipment. Im sure those on a budget will find it very useful Stuart

[neil phillips]

Thanks for your praise! I know when I was once a beginner like yourself it seemed hard to believe how such images could be improved upon but believe me this image is only the beginning being only my second session with the new 618 chipped DFK. As Neil said the luminance can be improved but I decided to leave it at this level to help the contrast as this was taken at 6.10am in daylight. There is another version posted on here http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-planetary/153902-jupiter-grs-sept-1st.html which has more luminance but to me looks washed out on certain monitors.

My equipment is capable of much more

You are so right i belive your equipment will deliver more this year. And im so glad your experimenting. All the pioneers of imaging learned the hard way, by experimenting, ive always believed it leads to greater things. it teaches your eye.

[astroman001]

Hi Neil,

I definately got some 60 fps images without ringing. Never saw a problem with the Moon. I have not tried 60 fps with my 618 re-chipped DMK yet. Will let you know what happens.

regards

Peter

[neil phillips]

Ahh ok Peter thats interesting, i actually didnt know that, I thought the problem was total. Wonder if you will get some at 60 fps with the new chip not affected. I know Emil Krakemp said it does create artifacts, but as you say if the problem is variable, might be worth throwing in a couple of trys everytime you image, to see if it can be variable with the Mod.

[Clayton]

I can only encourage you both Neil and James to persevere, as I personally value the contributions of you both, and have always found your comments to be constructive

[neil phillips]

Cheers Clayton, i probably just let it get to me a little bit too much, but when someone trys to undermine what im saying, by posting directly after me, under the illusion that its just a veiwpoint, ( twice now i wonder if there will be a third attempt soon)

I take issue with peoples motives, when they behave like that. I realize we dont all agree, but in the case of the first time, somebody ( not me ) actually helped the guy by adjusting the colour to a more neutral tone. so i wasnt the only one who apparently didnt agree with someones different viewpoint or opion so to speak.

Anyway it was suggested the person might stop posting, because we, and i mean WE was trying to help the guy. Thats just personal parenoia. not a opinon on astronomy, A reason to say DONT LISTEN TO THEM. Lets just see if that pattern continues then it will be obviouse whats really going on here. thanks for the support Clayton, i hate conflict. but when someone rubs you the wrong way, and trys to suggest its just a opion. well i think thats just rubbish, no matter how much they protest its just freedom of speech. Transparent people are pretty easy to see through. no matter how they cloud the glass

[neil phillips]

One last thing if i get no more stalking of my advice. its now dropped. untill then its over. i dont agree with it. but its over. at least i hope it is. No more mention from me. lets get back to Astronomy. sorry to everybody. for letting it get to me. I think i have too much. Apologies again

[Space Cowboy]

Stuart when we love something it comes easy. Though equipment is very important ive found. So Flo is invaluable here. What your doing with your dob, is also inspirational. infact more so. because its harder. i Hope those that are trying to up there game learn from what your doing. I think you should do a thread outlining the cost of your equipment. and what can be achieved with such said equipment. Im sure those on a budget will find it very useful Stuart

Cheers Neil! Yeah I do get a buzz doing something less conventional. Certainly cheapest way of imaging with a 10" scope. I have been posting some images on the Dobsonian group page and may do a video on youtube outlining my routine for those folk who can't afford a specialised imaging scope or just want to combine observing with some webcam imaging.

[neil phillips]

Cheers Neil! Yeah I do get a buzz doing something less conventional. Certainly cheapest way of imaging with a 10" scope. I have been posting some images on the Dobsonian group page and may do a video on youtube outlining my routine for those folk who can't afford a specialised imaging scope or just want to combine observing with some webcam imaging.

Im sure many on a budget must be watching what your doing, and thinking could i do similar. So great idea about a youtube video. im sure many here will find that particulaly interesting

Ive always been in the same boat. using a 10" scope on a vixen GP mount lol. had to have absolutly no wind. or it was a waste of time. The venus 5x images, were quite funny actually, on a vixen gp, everytime i moved towards the scope to focus or track, the image flew off screen lol. i moved back and it came back on.

Now thats sturdy. Cutting corners isnt ideal, but if someone is strapped for cash. which ive always been, it can be done. Your skywatcher optics must be pretty good, thats not something weve really discussed.

I remember a thread were Orion optics uk, tested some skywatcher optics, and they came out at about 1/8th pv. if i remember correctly. Completly good enough, as the higher figure optics rarely ( especially in the uk ) would perform any better under our uk skies. I could be wong. but thats my belief. 1/8th pv is good enough.

some suggest 1/4 pv is actually good enough. But i admit i dont really have the expertise on this question. Its just things that ive picked up on from those that have. But clearly your SW optics are doing the buisness

[Space Cowboy]

Yes I'm pleased how the optics are performing and especially collimation as I've only ever used a laser though am planning to do a visual test now the tracking is better. That detail in the GRS is very encouraging.

Did I remember correctly you saying Venus would be in a decent place some time this year?

[neil phillips]

Yes Stuart i think its after the new year, ill look into it and get back or if anyone else knows ?

[neil phillips]

Just a update venus, comes back in 2012 around January. Not sure yet what i prefer the Schuler or astrodon uv. Yet to be determined, the schuler has lower transmission, so images will be dimmer. The astrodon is much better in that regard.but more expensive, a cheaper idea might be a violet filter, but it will need a IR Block filter too. Dont want to upset he missus, but you really will need a mono cam for UV, a secondhand mono spc 900 will work well, as theres little rotation on venus, you can shoot at 10 fps for as long as you like for say 15000 frames. just a thought, Andy Ellis would modify a morgans cam i think ? Time to prepare. venus is not easy, but when seeng is calm ( i got most of my better images early in the morning like we did jupiter stuart ) it is very rewarding, i loved those times catching UV clouds on the scorcher. a very neglected world, compared to jupiter saturn and mars

[Space Cowboy]

Yes I was just looking on stellarium last night it looks very good next spring in the evening and by June will be 55 degrees in size bigger than Jupiter!

[Space Cowboy]

Auto Dobsonian with DFK and 5x Powermate.

1500 frames from 11000 quality graded in Ninox then split into RGB and each channel stacked in Registax then recombined in image analyzer with some deconvolution work.

OK well I've decided to mess with this image again this time increasing luminance and saturation. I think this looks a lot more alive.

[AztecastroMcJ]

yep looks better on my monitor Stuart

very alive

[Space Cowboy]

Thanks James. I think with all the cloud we've been having I'd forgotten there is a sun in our solar system

[AztecastroMcJ]

could be ok here tonight, seeing sun today was a suprise

[neil phillips]

No question Stuart, its more vibrant. This what is what i meant when i said like you i left the images fairly unaltered, but noticed a lot more life , increasing the lum. It brings the details and colour to life doesnt it. good Tweaking. Always worth experimenting, this kind of proves it.

Doesnt hurt to try new new things. I hope others learn not to be afraid to tweak or try new things. the worst that can happen is you hit the delete button. Another suggestion on image analyzer theres settings called Black on colour mapper, try dropping the black a little. on my bright monitor, the background looks a bit light and grey. If its my monitor causing this forget the suggestion, but if you can see that too. worth one last tweak maybe.