Jump to content

Banner.jpg.b83b14cd4142fe10848741bb2a14c66b.jpg

Help me purchase my first telescope :)

GordonCopestake

Recommended Posts

GordonCopestake

GordonCopestake

Posted
Posted

I have owned numerous telescope OTA's and mounts over the years, although nothing of high value (I am not a man of means) from a 4.5" reflector on a wobbly tripod to APO's and large dobs. I've enjoyed owning and using them all. However...

I currently don’t own a single telescope, eyepiece or mount. Nothing, zip, nada

I have come to this through various financial disasters and equipment changes. However I find this position enviable as I am now able to purchase my “first” telescope from scratch and have the added benefit that many people buying their first telescope don’t have: hindsight!

I am currently whittling down my selection criteria given my past experiences and so far I have come up with this:

I am primarily a visual observer with a passing interest in photography. Lets say 90%/10%. My equipment must reflect this.

The mount is more important than the OTA: However I don’t want the mount to be physically demanding, but it must give rock solid views especially when focusing at high power.

I do want GOTO: I’ve owned manual mounts, motorised mounts and GOTO mounts and whilst I know the sky I find the time saved not hunting targets goes to viewing targets. I have a young family and can no longer spend hours and hours outside at night; my typical observing session is 2 hours or less so GOTO helps squeeze more observing into this short time.

I want aperture! 8” is a minimum. I have owned 3” and 4” APO’s and whilst they give excellent wide field views they just can’t quite hack it under my light polluted NELM 4 skies compared to larger aperture instruments I’ve owned like the 12” Lightbridge or even 8” newts (with good optics).

Whilst I’m happy to re-purchase my Naglers eventually, the majority of my eyepiece collection will likely contain lower cost eyepieces that will perform better in a longer f/ratio ‘scope. A longer f/ratio also means that I can achieve higher magnification with longer focal length eyepieces making them more comfortable to use. I don’t want a 4mm Plossl! A longer focal length 'scope is also kinder on collimation.

Being under light polluted skies the majority of the time means that I get greatest pleasure from viewing the planets Saturn and Jupiter as well as the moon. I do of course also enjoy open clusters and the brighter nebula. This means I would like to be able to view Saturn at high magnification comfortably and also beable to frame M45 and maybe even M31 in my full FOV. I appreciate that this is a tall order for some ‘scopes.

I would like the ‘scope to be portable. I don’t have an observatory and need to setup my equipment every time I need to use it. Although I do have a secure shed so cool down isn’t an issue. I would also like to have the option of taking my equipment to a dark site fairly easily, should the oportunity arise.

Now putting all this together in my head:

GOTO mount: I have a number of options, CG5-GT (which I’ve owned and liked but thought was noisy), EQ6/Atlas (excellent mount, but a little too heavy for me) and the current favourite HEQ5/Sirius (Never used one, but only ever heard good things). I’m on a tight budget so the HEQ5 is probably at my maximum expenditure here, although I will spend less on the OTA if theres a better mount out there for a little more. And for me “better” doesn’t mean a larger load capacity but simply quieter, more accurate and less stress to work with. I would like the mount to be as transparent as possible.

OTA wise if I need 8” or more then I’m looking at a mirror not a lens. I can’t afford an 8” refractor or the mount it would need.

I don’t want an OTA that’s over 3 foot long if I can help it, for storage and portability. If I want a long f/ratio in a portable package then I’m looking at a CAT. I could go with a fast newt but then with a shorter focal length I loose comfortable planetary views. I don’t want to Barlow up or use too short focal length eyepieces if possible.

To me this means a C8, a mak or similar. I have owned a C8 before (a 1980’s version) and liked the size and the aperture, although the contrast left something to be desired due to the central obstruction, although that could have been the example I had having poor optics (I’m no expert, even less so back then!).

Now to regain something of the lost contrast and perhaps some of the very wide FOV I could piggy back mount a ZS66 or similar and all in all I think this would make a good setup. A C8/ZS66/HEQ5 combo…

Now before I spend my cash I’m looking for alternatives as this will likely be a setup that will last me for a while (honest). I’ve done my buying and selling over the years and tried pretty much everything on the market. This time round once I’ve brought the equipment that’s it for at least a few years. So it’s got to last me (and it will keep the missus happy that i'm no longer on first name terms with the delivery man).

One alternative I’ve seen is the CPC800 which is a fork mounted C8 with GPS and all the bells and whistles. The only thing that puts me off the CPC over the HEQ5 is that if I wanted to setup without the C8 and just use the ZS66 or perhaps a DSLR then I would still need to setup the CPC OTA. Plus if I do want to do any photography I would get field rotation on long exposure images(not that my NELM4 skies offer much in the way of long exposures) although a wedge alleviates that problem.

Is there anything that I’ve missed given my criteria? Do my thought processes sound logical or those of a gibbering idiot? Any comments or constructive criticism welcomed. I have a number of months before I’m financially able to buy this kit so have some time to make the right decision.

Many thanks for listening

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 36
  • Created
  • Last Reply
psychobabbler

psychobabbler

Posted
Posted

Hi Gordon

You have perhaps accidentally given the best description of the pros and cons of all telecope types i have read in a while!! Interestingly, when Steve at FLO first suggested a scope to me, it was a C9.25 OTA on an EQ6. This would be a good compromise but perhaps a bit over budget? How about c8 on an HEQ5 to deal with the wedge problem ad still give you goto and portability??

Happy hunting

Psychobabbler

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GazOC

GazOC

Posted
Posted

I've often had the odd muse on what is the minimum amount of gear I could get down to and I usually come up with a C11/ C9.25 on a HEQ5 and (you knew there was going to be an 'and' :)) a decent 4" refractor of some description.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
John

John

Posted
Posted

Hi Gordon,

Reading your "requirements" list I'm struck how close your needs are to my own. Over the past 20 years I have owned (sometimes for a frighteningly short space of time !) 18 scopes :). I have tried newts, dobs, achros, apos and cats. The only types I have not tried so far are Maks - but there's still time yet !!.

I was very lucky recently to acquire a fork mounted C8 in great condition for a great price. It's not GOTO but is has just about everything else and, with carefull collimation, the images I have seen though it are wonderful. I have now realised that this is a scope that I will keep (no, really). Yes the optical design is a compromise but the range of things that this scope can do is immense and it is really portable and a practical proposition for someone, like youself, who has limited "windows" of observing time and it is capable of "serious" observing and imaging.

My budget allowed me to pick up an ED80 which I keep on an AZ-3 mount for "moments notice" use and the combination of these 2 scopes, IMHO and in my circumstances is going to be hard to beat.

My recommendation, for what it's worth, would be to try an get a C8 on a GOTO mount and, budget allowing, a little scope for "fun" viewing.

Aparently Al Nagler still owns and uses a C8 - with all the other scopes at his disposal I think that speaks volumes for them.

I have told my wife to cut up my bank cards if I ever mention selling my C8 - and she says she is going to keep me to that !!.

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MartinB

MartinB

Posted
Posted

With a brief of - telescope for life, short OTA, goto, versatile, quick set up, mainly visual with a bit of imaging a CPC 8" would be the best choice for me but is obviously expensive.

One advantage of this scope Gordon might actually be the fact that you can't use it as a base for lots of other kit, other than a sub 100mm refractor. Might cure your scopic wanderlust! :) As you say cool down isn't much of an issue for you and it is very quick to set up. the whole assembly can be carried out as one complete unit, no balancing, leveling or polar aligning.

To image successfully without going to the additional hassle of a wedge you will need to get the F/L down a lot. I believe you can use the Celestron 0.67 reducer with a DSLR. However a 3.3 reducer (no good for DSLRs or for visual) is a very effective combination with a modded webcam type camera. 45 secs at 3.3 captures a lot of photons - equivalent to nearly 4 minutes with an ED80! Then, of course, there's fastar!

The main downside of a scope like the CPC is it feels like cheating. It is just too easy!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GordonCopestake

GordonCopestake

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for your replies folks, i'm glad i'm barking up the right tree!

I was thinking the SGL favourite: Explorer 200/HEQ5, until you mentioned SCT

I did consider a newt as they are cheap! However at the focal lengths i'm thinking they become physically long, and even the f/5 Explorer 200 is about a meter long. Which isn't too bad, but it is much larger than a C8 if lighter.

...was a C9.25 OTA on an EQ6. This would be a good compromise but perhaps a bit over budget?

A little over budget yes, but more over weight. I've hefted an EQ6 and despite being a healthy young lad (ish) I still think it's a little too heavy to move around easily. I dont want my setup to be a chore, or I just wont observe as much as I could or should. The C925 is also significantly more weight (and money) than the C8. Is that extra inch and a quarter worth it? I'm not sure, but i'm leaning towards no.

I've often had the odd muse on what is the minimum amount of gear I could get down to and I usually come up with a C11/ C9.25 on a HEQ5 and (you knew there was going to be an 'and' :)) a decent 4" refractor of some description.

I agree, i'd like a C11 but it's just WAY over budget and WAY over weight for me at the moment. The C925 is a possibility but the C8 is much lighter and much cheaper, half the price second hand. As for the decent 4" refractor, i'm thinking a ZS66 or ZS80 (or clone) would be enough. Getting a 4" refractor thats fast enough ( to have a short tube ) with decent colour correction would be expensive.

Reading your "requirements" list I'm struck how close your needs are to my own. Over the past 20 years I have owned (sometimes for a frighteningly short space of time !) 18 scopes :). I have tried newts, dobs, achros, apos and cats. The only types I have not tried so far are Maks - but there's still time yet !!.

I'm in the exact same boat: I've never tried a Mak. I was looking at the Synta 6" Mak, but I dont think it's enough aperture for me.

I was very lucky recently to acquire a fork mounted C8 in great condition for a great price. It's not GOTO but is has just about everything else and, with carefull collimation, the images I have seen though it are wonderful. I have now realised that this is a scope that I will keep (no, really). Yes the optical design is a compromise but the range of things that this scope can do is immense and it is really portable and a practical proposition for someone, like youself, who has limited "windows" of observing time and it is capable of "serious" observing and imaging.

Thats why i was investigating the fork mounted CPC. Faster setup time and overall a lighter load

My recommendation, for what it's worth, would be to try an get a C8 on a GOTO mount and, budget allowing, a little scope for "fun" viewing.

Good advice and I had come to the same conclusion. A ZS80 or similar that can be used as grab and go on a tripod for fun and also used piggy back for guiding and widefield stuff

Aparently Al Nagler still owns and uses a C8 - with all the other scopes at his disposal I think that speaks volumes for them.

I read that today too, and thought: Blimy! The man must be a millionaire, he makes 'scopes for a living and CHOOSES to use someone elses mass produced scope? Can't say much for HIS scopes!

I have told my wife to cut up my bank cards if I ever mention selling my C8 - and she says she is going to keep me to that !!.

My wife just wants me to be happy (arhhhh) ... but not bankrupt us at the same time. I could happily spend the kids inheritance on equipment (and sell both our cars too!) but it's hard to justify it so I have to be harsh with myself. I mean how often do I ACTUALLY get to use this stuff? Once or twice a week if i'm lucky.

With a brief of - telescope for life, short OTA, goto, versatile, quick set up, mainly visual with a bit of imaging a CPC 8" would be the best choice for me but is obviously expensive.

Ahhh! I was hopeing you would reply Mart, being a fork man :)

One advantage of this scope Gordon might actually be the fact that you can't use it as a base for lots of other kit, other than a sub 100mm refractor. Might cure your scopic wanderlust! :D

That is a MASSIVE plus point in favour of the CPC Mart!!!!

As you say cool down isn't much of an issue for you and it is very quick to set up. the whole assembly can be carried out as one complete unit, no balancing, leveling or polar aligning.

Again a HUGE plus point, the more time spent observing and the less time spent messing with equipment the better I think. I've done precious little observing this year because of messing around with kit

To image successfully without going to the additional hassle of a wedge you will need to get the F/L down a lot. I believe you can use the Celestron 0.67 reducer with a DSLR. However a 3.3 reducer (no good for DSLRs or for visual) is a very effective combination with a modded webcam type camera. 45 secs at 3.3 captures a lot of photons - equivalent to nearly 4 minutes with an ED80! Then, of course, there's fastar!

Well as I said, imaging isn't a huge thing for me, but I would like to at least take some piggy back wide field shots, which I think the CPC could handle easily. Even with a ZS80/D70 on top of it I think it should just about be ok. I mean the same forks take a C11 dont they?

The main downside of a scope like the CPC is it feels like cheating. It is just too easy!!

Hehe, I'll take your word for it. I have never used one, but know that you love your Nexstar GPS 8.

The CPC IS expensive though, although if we are going on new prices then it adds up like this:

CPC800: £1,899.00

HEQ5: £780.00

C8 XLT: £959.00

Total: £1739.00

So the CPC is £160 more expensive. Although of course there are various discounts available to forum members (thanks guys!) and that being said I would certainlly be keeping my eye out on the second hand market which could lower the price by as much as 50%. A C8 OTA for example is about £400 second hand.

Thanks for the comments so far, keep em coming!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GordonCopestake

GordonCopestake

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I did look at the MAK180 on the HEQ5, but am not at all familiar with them. I'm sure they are excellent 'scopes but for CAT's I would rather stick with what I know, and thats Celestron.

If you are going for mainly visual use, the combination of 8" SCT and a <4" refractor may leave a little to be desired for planetary use.

<puts tin hat on> :)

You might be right, but the reason I wanted the little refractor was to regain the wide FOV. The maximum FOV in a C8 is 1.3 degrees, with a little 80mm f/5 it's 4 degrees. I wouldn't use the refractor for for anything other than grab and go and rich field stuff. If I go the HEQ5 route I might get a 8" f/5 instead. But thats a little bit down the way. One OTA at a time I think hehe

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GazOC

GazOC

Posted
Posted

C9.25 and C11 too heavy for HEQ5 ( C9.25 may be OK visually but not for imaging)

Defineatly OK for visual (I have a 10" SCT, which is heavier than a C11, and HEQ5), but as you say maybe a bit much for imaging esp. the C11.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kai

Kai

Posted
Posted

Gordon

Setup time is around 10 Min's (including Polar alignment) but i do have it permanently setup in the conservatory

As for balance i have the ZS on a Adm rail system and it is very solid,with both scopes,2x diagonals and eyepieces the vibrations settle in a couple of seconds,with just the C8 then its around a second.

As for hi mag then the highest Ive been is a 6mm plossl looking at Saturn a few weeks ago and i could make out banding,cassini no problems.

The only niggle i have with it is image shift when focussing with the webcam,atik but i have sorted that out now with a new addition from FLO :)

Another thing is that i replaced the std collimation screws with a set of Bobs Knobs

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jeff RV

Jeff RV

Posted
Posted

Hi yer Gordon. May be the way to go but another factor is image shift, "annoying to say the least" so you may also need a Micro focuser,the LX200 come with it as standard but not the LX series and at around 250 "sorry no pound sign on this Spanish board etc" don't know about celestron though".. Jeff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GordonCopestake

GordonCopestake

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yeah a nice WO crayford on the end of an SCT is always a good upgrade. Not sure if it would clear a CPC though, and thats still in the running. Although the HEQ5 is still favourite as i've not heard any compelling reason not to go for that combo over something else

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.