SuburbanMak

@gamermole your dilemma is a fun problem to have and the "which bit of gear is best to buy" question occupies huge swathes of this forum As @Beardy30 mentioned above, the AZGTi is a super little mount & actually down the road you can pick up a used ST80 for around £100 or something like the sharper Evostar ED72 for £200 ish if you keep your eyes peeled on the classifieds. Don't know if you saw this post which is a good summary of what the StarTravel 102 is good & less good at:

Another satisfied Mak 127 on AZGTi customer here! Great advice from @Zermelo above, especially on finders for the Mak 127. I've had mine for 2 years and love it - robust, highly portable, easy to handle (nice and short!), forgiving on eyepieces, doesn't require collimation and optics that punch well above their cost. This combination really got me off to a good start and rekindled my enthusiasm for the hobby and I've enjoyed super, apollo-like views of the moon, Saturn (rings, Cassini division, surface banding 3 moons), Jupiter (4 moons endlessly moving around it including shadow transits, good banding with on the best nights some swirls and barges, great red spot) and recently Mars (poles, cloud and larger surface features). Its great on Double Stars - the closest split I've made with it being Tegmine in Cancer but there are loads of doubles close and wide & with contrasting colours to enjoy! The Mak is great on all but the widest star clusters so there are lots of beautiful arrangements to see (M35/36/37/38 all great targets at this time of year), its good on globular clusters - resolving stars in M13 and M5 for example, will easily show the smoke-ring shape of M57, the dumbell shape of M27, lots of structure in the Orion nebula (M42) and show some form in the brighter galaxies M81/M82, M51 for example. The StarTravel 102 you highlight in your last post is a great scope too, but a very different beast being much better suited to lower power viewing of wider star fields. This is because its a "fast" telescope at f4.9 (i.e. the ratio between the diameter of the objective lens at 102mm and the length at 500mm is 4.9 times). This means that a 10mm EP in the StarTravel 102 will deliver x50 Magnification whereas the same eyepiece in the Mak would give 150x (it being a "slower" telescope at f12). The ST102 is a great tool for widefield viewing, I have its little brother the ST80 and use it lots alongside my Mak for higher powers. That said, all the 'scopes you are looking at have their particular strengths and will give views good enough to well and truly give you "the bug" - so rest assured on that first purchase, there are few wrong answers and (just as you might eventually buy additional lenses if you became serious about photography) you'll almost certainly end up buying more than one telescope over time Clear skes and whatever you choose, go out and use it often!

There is undoubtedly a "magic' to refractors, pin sharp stars on inky black backgrounds and at shorter focal lengths super-wide views and, well, they look like real telescopes! There is much wise, experience-based advice above but I would like to put in a word for the humble Mak in the 4-5 inch range, especially if funds are constrained. I came back to the hobby 2 years ago after a 35 year break (yikes!) and after much research plumped for a Skywatcher Skymax 127mm, f12 Maksutov as my main telescope, a decision I have not regretted despite picking up several other 'scopes along the way. There's general agreement that with their long focal length, Maks do well on the Moon and planets - the main reason for discounting them for DSO's being a narrower view (max view a smidge over 1 degree with my trusty SW 127, delivered either by a simple 32mm Plossl at 48x, or 64x with a 24mm, 68 degree EP like my Baader Hyperion). Yes, There are a handful of objects that won't fit into that field - the Pleiades, M31 the Andromeda Galaxy, the Veil nebula and a few more - but I am up to 97/110 Messier objects now with this 'scope and it excels on the less than huge star clusters and brighter planetary nebulae. The narrow view is easily solved with a decent finder scope and RDF combo. Double stars are also excellent in the Mak 127, down to its optically theoretical limits (around 1 arc second separation), views are slightly scruffier than a refractor - but it is slight. Where I would expect quality to out on a really high quality refractor is the ability to load on very high magnification on those rare nights of exquisite seeing - I note though that you're in the NW UK, not Arizona. When it comes to galaxies aperture is surely king, but in the Mak 127 I've seen structure in more objects than I expected to, including some of the fainter Messier galaxies in Virgo/Coma Berenices. This is particularly the case when you get out to a dark site, and this is another area where the Mak shows itself as a really practical observing tool, it is optically excellent (no CA apparent), short, lightweight, very stable in terms of collimation and incredibly robust, rendering it eminently portable and easy to mount (I run mine on an AZGTi GoTo capable mount). People talk about cooling time but at this 5" size in the UK that is rarely an issue (20 minutes or so going out on a freezing cold night last week, often not even noticeable). I picked up a basic 10" GSO Dobsonian ahead of spring "galaxy season" last year and it certainly delivers more light on galaxies, resolves more stars in globulars and is stunning on the moon but I find the logistical headache of moving it around & getting it out of my light polluted garden, mean that I reach for it far less often than I do the Mak. My point then is that I don't buy that a mid-aperture Mak is pigeon-holed to lunar and planetary views - they deliver great bang for your buck optically. In the end though so much comes down to your own observing routine and preferences & of course, budget. (Full disclosure I hanker after a Tak 4" f9 paired with a widefield Televue 76 as my "desert-island" rig :).

That's superb Nik well done!

Quick peek with the old Hilkin 60mm before dinner, BCOs 18/10/6mm, TS 32mmPlossl & TV15mm. Good seeing. Transparency a bit iffy and getting worse. Jupiter - lovely alignment of all 4 moons, good view of N/SEB & darker pole, Mars - nice red coloured disc, maybe something at the N Pole. Split Castor, Sigma Ori, Mintaka, Rigel (BCO 10 & 6mm). M42 - 4 trap stars. M45 looking fab and just fitting in FoV with the 32mm. Really should use this scope more, pin sharp and weighs nothing - rock solid on the AZGTI/PB70 manual mount on Berlebach 312 Report. A worthwhile hour there :).

Welcome! Strong start, I think you’ll like it here…

I was very glad of my Baader Mk IV Zoom the other night in the freezing cold, saves an awful lot of numbing fiddling

Those are some awesome images with a smartphone, well done!

Great report & glad you saved that Morpheus! Some of my favourite objects in there and a couple of new ones to try for thank you (those galaxies sound worth a shot.) I love looking at M67 one of the most ancient clusters out there I believe, and full of orangey stars.

Went out late to see if I could pick up the comet from the local park with the venerable Clarkson 3” f15 - it didn’t disappoint. A really nice view of the comet in the BCO 18mm at x61, then on to favourite doubles and clusters and back to the comet in, by then, failing transparency. Another splendid session with the “Gentleman’s telescope”.

This is a great shoot-out, thank you. I haven’t had the chance to look through the other eyepieces mentioned but have recently acquired the Stellalyra 30mm UFF, in a very short space of time it has revolutionised the performance of my 2” converted ST80 delivering the kind of views I’d hoped for on upgrading the focuser. Can’t wait to get it in my f5 10” Dob!

Watching the forecast as Friday afternoon drew on, I was getting almost childishly excited to head up to my usual darker spot on the South Downs with the specific purpose of tracking down the comet du jour, C 2022/E3 (ZTF). Having got really, really cold up there on Tuesday night (well worth it) I opted to take minimal gear and combine the comet hunt with a first dark(er) sky outing for my new toy, a Stellalyra 2 inch, 30mm Ultra Flat Field which has rejuvenated my enjoyment of my 2 inch modded ST80, to see what it would yield with less local light pollution around. I hung on until about half-ten to head out by which time the sky had cleared of mid-evening cloud and whilst transparency didn't look as perfect as earlier in the week, certainly looked worth a shot. So, equipped with the ST80, the SL 30mm in one pocket and a Baader Mk 1V zoom in the other, I stuck the AZGTi / Berlebach Report combo in the boot and once again wrapped in full winter gear set up shop on my usual dirt track across the Downs. From a naked-eye sweep before setting up, transparency was quite good, the winter milky way visible though not quite the glittering pathway I'd seen on Tuesday. I could easily pick out the main stars in Ursa Minor and the Beehive and Double Cluster were visible in averted vision. Orion once again looked spectacular. A band of thick-ish cloud was sitting over the target area for the comet as I aligned and took about half an hour to move away - fortunately the only interruption of the evening. Having carefully levelled and aligned using the Baader Zoom at 50x I plugged in the new Stellalyra 30mm UFF and started on the Pleiades, framed in a rich, wide starfield (5.25 degrees in this set up at 13.3x mag), Beehive, superb in its entirety and Double Cluster which I spent a good deal of time enjoying. I am really chuffed with the SL 30mm UFF in the ST80, although stars in the outer 10% of the massive field are very slightly defocused vs. on axis they are not deformed, and the effect is not at all "dizzying" as is the dramatic aberration present across a much wider swath of the field when using the Baader 31mm Hyperion Aspheric. Contrast and colour are good too and the huge field makes taking in the whole of wider features like this in their context a real pleasure. To the comet then, via a couple of local GoTo hops to dial-in the mount's accuracy - Mizar, where I popped in the Zoom to enjoy a lovely split, one of the first doubles I looked at and remains a low power favourite. Then on to Edasich (Iota Draconis) as a jumping off point for the comet. The latest version of SynScan Pro includes current comets as pre-set targets and C 2022/E3 (ZTF) was top of the list. I'd expected the comet to be a tough spot but of course, sixth magnitude is actually quite bright, certainly compared to some of the galaxy targets I'd been peering after earlier in the week. I picked it out quite easily, reminded me initially of an unresolved globular cluster that had been slightly smeared across the sky. A small diffuse ball in the SL 30mm, brighter at its core and standing direct vision. In AV I could dimly pick out a short and fairly broad wedge shaped tail and from time to time a flicker of a longer streak, particularly on its upper/left hand edge (RACI view). After enjoying the view for ten minutes or so, I switched to the zoom and found the best view at around 12mm (33x) which still included a pair of faint background stars to aid focus, any more than that wasn't revealing anything more. Having had a good look, I checked if i could find it with my 10x50s and yes, with a clue from the RDF on the 'scope, its was easily picked out. Confident I'd be able to reacquire the comet later, I decided to take a tour of the winter milky way with the new eyepiece and then see if I could discern any movement in the comet against its background stars. I panned through NGC 457 (the Owl/ET), Double Cluster again, lingered on the stunning view of Mirphak and the alpha Persei cluster that was just superb in this field, a tiny Mars disc against a rich background, Aldebaran and the Hyades, Meissa and the head of Orion, the belt stars and the winding silver of Collinder 70, and then the inevitable minutes lost in space on the M42 region. Even at low magnification, the drive out to a darker spot is most noticeable in the increase in contrast and detail on this object, just superb. After that, M46 & 47 looked a bit small and lack-lustre, but its not so much their fault as I was getting down toward the encroaching light-dome over Portsmouth/Fareham area by then. All this sweeping had taken up a pleasant hour and by now very cold (and glad of the decsion to go for two eyepieces that could be switched in and out fully gloved & the versatility of the Zoom), I decided to take a last look at the comet before calling it a night. The cold was in part due to a light but steady and bitingly chilly breeze that had sprung up, numbing ungloved fingers in a couple of minutes. It had though had the effect of clearing the skies further and transparency was definitely better than earlier in the evening. I had a lovely long look at the comet, apparently brighter now (around 1.30 am) and with those hints of a longer tail coming through more reliably. Sure enough it had moved I'd say about half a degree or so against the background in the time I'd been out, which I was surprised at how exciting I found to see. Leo was by now high to the East with Virgo rising and the band of the winter milky way slipping lower and West, my fingers even in gloves were starting to feel distinctly wooden. As I was making my mind up to pack up, a car swept in and parked next to mine a couple of hundred yards away, certainly I wasn't going to hang around long enough to fully regain my night-vision so I took it as a sign to pack up, unsure too of the intentions of this new arrival at such an out of town spot. Back at the layby, I found the driver wrestling an immense pair of binoculars onto a tripod and struggling to find the comet. Its the first time I've run into a kindred astro-spirit up here so I was happy to do a quick set up, realign and let him have a look through the ST80 to get his bearings by hovering over my RDF with his massive bins! By this time though I was really ready to get into my nice warm car and drive, carefully, home. (I always find myself driving incredibly slowly after an absorbing session having got used to the imperceptibly slow motion of the sky!). Back home then for tea and whisky and a warm whilst checking out what all the other SGL'ers had been up to, an additional pleasure on a good night like this. (I was shortly brought swiftly back down to earth by the arrival of my kebab-toting older teenagers who had somewhat over-served themselves on a night out, but that's another story...)

SynScan Pro for Skywatcher mounts was accurate last night. Great views from my South Downs spot (SQM 21.04, Bortle 4).

These are fantastic - thank you for sharing!

Super session on comet C 2022 E3 (ZTF) from the South Downs tonight. Picked it up quite easily around 11:30 lowish to the NE. In and out of mist patches for a while then a (biting) breeze got up and sky conditions improved markedly. Later views much better - a brighter nucleus in AV surrounded by reasonably bright nebulosity and a dim, short fan shaped tail , occasional hints of a longer structure. Definitely moved half a degree or so over the time I observed but critical faculties deserted me a bit as was a) too excited and b) too cold for anything resembling scientific rigour! Will post a more detailed report tomorrow but for now I am enjoying a slow thaw assisted by both tea and Lagavulin. Great night!

Just walked in from a coffee break white light peek with the old Prinz Astral 330, 60mm f11.8. Amazing views AR3190 is huge and there’s a wealth of other groups (10 in total?), faculae etc.

Very sad news indeed - like many commenting above John was one of the wise, expert voices on the forum, happy to share the benefit of his experience with a kind & good humoured tone. Condolences to his family and thanks to @thunderbird02 for posting, I hope that the high regard shown on here for John adds a little to your memory of him.

I find they look amazingly bright after fuzzy hunting - definitely the most rewarding way round to run a session in my view

Where I go is only a ten minute or so drive away from town and up on to the Downs, takes me from SQM 20.16 in the local park down to 21.04 and makes a massive difference, well worth it and I am now completely comfortable in the environment at night, which does take a bit of getting used to first couple of sessions!

No worries - nice post!

Cheers! Likewise I'd love to get a look at the LMC, SMC, 47 Tucanae, Carina Neb etc... Someday maybe

Reading everyone's reports of such a super night inspired me to wrap up warm (think polar explorer here) and drive up onto the South Downs above Winchester last night. I arrived on site at just after nine and the cloud having cleared, as promised by the Met Office cloud cover map, revealed a pristine sky above about thirty degrees. Orion was stunning to the SE and part of a glittering path through Taurus, Persues and Cassiopeia. Even before my eyes were dark adapted I could easily see the Double Cluster and M31 with AV, later these plus the rising Beehive stood direct vision. As I unpacked the gear, a very bright yellow fireball crossed through the lower end of Ursa Major, on and down to the NW, disappearing from view behind winter trees - a cracking start! It was very cold, setting up left me with numb fingers and although I keep the Mak in a cold part of the house and had popped it outside in the backpack half an hour before heading out views were very scruffy for the first twenty minutes or so as things acclimatised to icebox level. Having carefully levelled the tripod I started my normal North Level alignment and encountered the same glitch that started two nights ago - having set to N & level, instead of slewing to Sirius the mount tracked down a couple of degrees and then stopped. Hmm.. I had assumed this was previously the result of a poorly charged power tank and made sure batteries were full tonight but it appears to be a repeatable glitch (have since loaded the latest version of Synscan and note that North Level is no longer an option, shame as its been very accurate for the last two years!). Switching to a three star alignment the mount behaved itself as I centred Sirius, Aldebaran, and Pollux with the Baader Zoom at 188x. Began with a look at Castor, lovely twin headlights & checked the GoTo looking accurate for a short hop, Mak views starting to settle down. Then switched to a Baader Hyperion 24mm, 68 degree with a Neodymium filter and hopped to M35 - stunning, filled with lanes of stars & remembered to look for NGC 2158 nestling at its side and sure enough there its was. Then on round to M42, the mount now landing things plumb in the centre. Stunning level of contrast in the gas cloud and a real sense of stars shining from within it in 3D - I tore myself away to keep hopping round toward my main targets for the night but promised myself a proper look later. A quick look at the Pleiades, looking fab even in the finder, and then on to M31 to get my eye in on something fuzzy before searching for fainter targets. The Mak 127's 1 degree field of view makes taking in the whole of M31 a panning task - it was as good last night as I've seen it, M32 and M110 easily picked out and just maybe a gradation in the outer nebulosity hinting at a dust lane. On then to the main order of business and I centred on Delta Ceti as a waypoint to M77 (The Squid Galaxy for some reason...). A word about hunting down objects with GoTo, when I bought a GoTo system I naively expected to be able to zip from target to target without too much hunting about, and this can certainly be the case with bright features in the widefield ST80, its great fun. I quickly realised however than when looking for objects at the margin of visibility in the narrow field Mak, being plonked without reference in an unknown starfield is deeply disorientating, and unless the target is immediately apparent (as many of the Messier objects are not with this aperture) you can spend a lot of time lost in space, unsure whether you've located the object or not. I like to find the nearest decently bright star, something that's going to define the locale as a reference point and work out from there. As such GoTo becomes a shortcut to a definite start point for star or (in the case of Virgo/Coma region), galaxy-hops. In this case I had plugged Delta Ceti, Mag 4 into SynScan before heading out - M77 lies roughly half a degree to the East. Having centred on the star I made the short hop to M77 and was delighted to immediately see a directly visible core with some circular nebulosity surrounding in AV. Amazing as I've hunted in vain for this one a couple of times. "Got the little blighter!" I said out loud, which was weird as there was no one to hear and its not a phrase I'd normally use! I spent a decent amount of time taking in M77 and enthusiasm thus buoyed, slewed to Eta Piscium the marker star for M74, The Phantom Galaxy, which lies about a degree NE. After 15 minutes or so of uncertain peering it became clear that The Phantom would remain so tonight. Maybe I was seeing something but then I could look at the surrounding faint stars and make each a candidate based on very slight haze around them, so no, not counting this as seen. I have generally found face on Spirals the hardest objects to pick out and this one was no exception. On to M109 in Ursa Major, another subject of much fruitless peering in the past. Its not difficult to find where it allegedly lies, within a Mak-field South of Phecda/Phad on the bowl of the Plough. I centred on the bright star then dropped it just above the FoV, and after giving myself 10 minutes or so to really look I was able to see.... nothing that I could remotely identify as a galaxy. Slightly disheartened and feeling the cold, I centred on Edasich (Iota Draconis), for the 2 degree or so hop to M102 (taking NASA's word for it that Mechain & Messier actually meant NGC 5866 The Spindle Galaxy as M102). A faint but very apparent oblique smear of light in a triangular star field immediately lifted my mood - I've found it so much easier to discern the edge on targets, they seem to register with the brain being of distinctly different pattern to surrounding stars. Took an enjoyable look at M81 & M82 which can just fit in the same field in the Mak, M82 showing some texture and after looking at such dim, grey patches, looking bright with a slightly golden light. Two out of four of my winter Messier nemeses down, moving the total on to 97, felt like a great night's work and by now I was freezing and tired of peering at the limits of vision so after a couple of minutes of star-jumps to get the blood moving again I worked my way through some sparkly things... Double cluster (NCG 869/884) - stunning in both finder and Mak, really enjoyed the few contrasting yellow stars embedded and the dark lane between the two clusters and being able to step back and take this in naked eye as part of the ribbon of the Milky Way. Kembles cascade & NGC 1502, the Jolly Roger Cluster - I'd seen this designation for the cluster the other day when looking at Kembles cascade and was keen to put some higher magnification on the cluster itself, sure enough there is a pronounced diagonal cross of bright white stars, not so sure about the skull but I can see what they're driving at. Enjoyed the wide view of the cascade in the 8x50 finder then "zooming in" on the cluster by switching to the Mak. Owl/ET/Dragonfly NGC 457 - the Mak really excels on these smaller star clusters and at 63x in the 24mm this was filling about two thirds of the field. Very much ET at this magnfication, earlier in the week I was looking at it through the low mag ST80 and in that it was much more a gossamer Dragonfly. Gorgeous in either format. With clusters that look like things in mind, I remembered "Hagrid's Dragon" NGC 2301 over in Monoceros which I have never looked at. Slewing all the way over to Sirius first to make sure the mount and I were still on the same page, I had a lack-lustre attempt at seeing the Pup with a BCO 18mm Barlowed to 8mm (188x) -may have been something at 5 o'clock (RACI) view, I'll have to check, but as always nothing concrete and I was getting some shake from the building breeze at this mag, the one downside of my spot on the Downs is it really catches the slightest wind! On then to NGC 2301 which really does look like a dragon in flight - lovely stuff! Took a quick look at M41 as it was nice and high - super cluster this one looking very bright last night. Then allowed myself to get lost in the folds of M42 at high mag for a time, panning up and down. I have never seen it better and was able to really see the nebulosity and star shining from deep within the M43 De Marian region. Kicking myself now that I didn't actively look for the Running Man as the contrast was such that I might have had a shot at it - still, one to chase another day. After enjoying a quick look at receding Mars - just about discerning the polar region and the faintest hint of Albedo darkening toward the Eastern limb, I finished with a quick look for the Comet C/E3 ZTF low to the NE at around midnight - managed a couple of minutes on this and was just convincing myself that I'd got it, slightly non-stellar point with maybe the hint of a tail, when a car pulled into where I was parked 100m away putting paid to the best of my dark adaptation. Whatever they were doing up there either my presence put them off or it was a wrong turning as they pulled swiftly away. By this time I was getting properly cold, the sky had lost some of its quality with very thin, high haze plus I had noticed my attention span waning in the last half hour, so I called it quits and took the gear down with numb fingers. After one last look at the Winter Milky Way I got in the car, whacked the heating on and headed home for a cuppa and a thaw before a welcome bed.

Super session tonight on the South Downs with Mak 127 & 10x50s. Got a couple of the more elusive Messiers I went after then cherry picked many favourites. Best views yet of M42 & the naked eye winter Milky Way was stunning. Sky was pristine from around 9 through to about 11.30 then got a little high haze drift in. M31, Beehive & Double Cluster all visible naked eye. Too cold and tired to type more now but will post an obs report tomorrow. Memorable evening. [EDIT: Full report here:]

Got in another garden session with the ST80 & Stella Lyra 30mm UFF pairing last night and made myself look at a few objects outside of my normal "greatest hits". Sky in Winchester was superb for a time and I could just about make out the Auriga Messiers naked eye, not something I've seen from the heavily locally light polluted garden before - although have seen them on occasion from town in the local park. Took in Kemble's cascade & NGC 1502, lovely wide field view & noted the various star colours in the cascade. A first visit for me to NGC 752 (C28) in Andromeda - a fainter but ethereal wide cluster of yellow stars in Andromeda - has some fascinating science and apparently an old cluster which is being pulled apart by outside gravitational forces, I'll definitely be back. The Alpha Persei cluster is a favourite with bins and shows incredibly well in this 5.25 degree field - Mirfak notably yellow. A region of NGC's in Cassiopeia - NGC 663, 659, 654 and the Owl/ET/Dragonfly NGC 457 in the same field (this last just showing its fainter members in AV amid the garden lights). A good look again at Collinder 70, the Orion's belt region with skeins of silvery stars weaving in and out of the piercingly bright main belt stars - stunning field. A look at the beautiful group around Meissa in the head of Orion. Checked in on M52, M103, M34, M35, M36, M37. Finished up with some favourites Orion sword area with M42 billowing in AV at its heart, M45 - jewell-like, the Double Cluster against its surrounding field - can't wait to look at this with this rig from a darker site and finally the Hyades - studies in orange of pairs & triangles. All fab but a very cold couple of hours. Weather & jetstream forecasts look good here from about 9 pm, I have the Mak cooling, notes prepped and planning an excursion up on to the downs hoping to track down some elusive remaining Messiers!

Delayed note of a session Thursday night… Made it out with the ST80 in 2inch mode to get first light on the Stellyra 30mm UFF & the verdict is… fantastic ! Crisp, colour-rich & contrasty views of pin sharp stars across 90% of the 5.3 degree field and even the edge distortion greatly reduced over the Baader Hyperion 31mm Aspheric as hoped. I at last I have the widefield monster I planned when adding the TSOptics 2inch focusser & diagonal 18 months ago. Was dodging between clouds & transparency was mixed along with still plenty of moon but had so much fun looking anew at Orion, Pleiades, Hyades, DC, Beehive, M35 even managed to pick M81 & M82 out of the moonlit murk in AV. Superb eyepiece and will give the ST80 a new lease of life - on balance I’d have been better off laying out on an ED72 right from the start but having flocked, fettled and converted I’ve now paired it with the perfect eyepiece to enjoy its use!