nephilim

I have plenty of ideas but i'm afraid non of them are suitable for a family friendly forum. I do hope you manage to find a solution, people can be so very very selfish & ignorant.

This (see link below) unfortunately popped up on my phone earlier under the title 'The best telescopes for astrophotography and stargazing in 2022'. Unless i'm missing something here then i've never seen so much utter drivel & any would be Astrophotographer will be packing their 'best ever' scope up & throwing it in the nearest river 5 minutes after trying to take any half decent images with most of them 😂 I do have a feeling that Celestron & Sky-Watcher are sponsoring this as all but two are from them

The best of the bunch is probably the SW SkyMax-180 Pro but i'd hardly say that thats a beginner scope for imaging. I started my journey into AP about 8 months ago & obviously researched the subject to death before choosing the Samyang 135mm f2 camera lens. Ideal for a new starter as its easy to work with & very forgiving when it comes to mistakes a newbie could make. So where is the mention of camera lenses or the Redcat 51, the 80mm Doublet refractor, the SW 13P-DS? 

Now I dont know how popular 'Digital Camera World' is but I know one thing, they should stick to terrestrial photography as they no nothing about AP whatsoever apart from what they have probably picked up from the back of a breakfast cereal packet. I'm just hoping this 'thing' isnt too widely read as it'll put anyone whose hoping to dip their toe into the world of AP off for a lifetime......Annnnnnnnddddddd Breeeeeathe

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/buying-guides/best-telescopes-for-astrophotography

@discardedastro I'm probably right at the limit of what I really want to be carrying around, setting up & stripping down each session. My imaging area isnt far from the back door & the actual optical part etc (Imaging lens/ camera, guide scope/ camera & Asiair Pro) just goes on & comes off in one go (see image). Then its just the tripod & mount head & associated 'bits'. The tripod, mains electric extension, counterweight goes in the shed nearby, but anymore then I would need a rethink.
I'll probably up grade my mount to an EQ6 R or similar in the next year or so & as an obsey isnt really practical (or affordable) right now, I'd more than likely go down the pier route as its a good option & works well for PA etc, the Telegizmo cover you've linked would be ideal for just the pier, the rest (optical & electrical) would come inside with me.

Your right when you say that 50% is weight/ portability etc. Many people starting with their first scope sometimes dont realise just how big they are until it suddenly arrives at the door & a 250mm scope is not small. I've seen countless posts in the Sales page of people selling up as gear isnt getting used, I realise weather & other commitments will play a part but you can pretty much guarantee that a big percentage of sales will be down to gear just been to big & heavy. Your post looks interesting, i'll have a read through that now.

Steve

I agree with @Clarkey, there isnt really a scope that will do both to any good degree. Also you dont mention budget or if you have any experience imaging?

If you've only  a little (or no) imaging experience then I'd not be looking at the 190mn, from what i've read, its a fantastic scope but I wouldnt say its a beginners scope & from what i've heard its pretty demanding when it comes to collimation & with it been a Mak it needs a long cool down period so I'd say its really better suited to a small obsey. You'll probably have seen countless times the old adage that the best scope is the one you'll use the most. Combine an EQ6 R & a 250mm scope & you've a heck of a lot of weight to carry in & out. The EQ6 R plus 250 Quattro come in at 50kg then you need to add on the weight of all your other bits, its not a weight i'd fancy just 'nipping out' with. It might sound ok right now but imaging carrying all that out, setting up & then 20 mins later the sky clouds over & you have to strip it all down & take it back inside, that scenario would get boring pretty quickly for me 😂 For observing only I'd definitely consider a 250mm scope but only a dobsonian which is easier to set up & move around than the other option.

If you look at my signature, I've gone for fairly lightweight (ish) & easy to set up. Budget also played a part with everything coming in at around 3.5k, Thats not including my processing software & a tablet plus a couple of guide books which takes it too around 4k. I'd have thought this is pretty middle ground (Cheap even considering some peoples set ups 😬) but it does everything I need to a standard i'm happy with. 

So really what i'm saying is a big dobsonian for visual & a small refractor with HEQ5 Pro mount, but thats just me. Good luck & keep asking as many questions as you need so you make the right choice the first time around

12 minutes ago, dieg00 said:

Ok I see. I just tried and at f2.8 or f2.5 I can see no diffraction. May I ask what tracker are you using? And tripod? I'm on the lookout to buy one

I've been using this for the last 6 months or so. Its well priced & also has a good weight bearing capacity for imaging, at 12.7kg its capable of carrying more weight than the HEQ5 Pro (it has a quoted maximum of 11kg) plus its around £300 cheaper than the HEQ5 Pro.  https://www.firstlightoptics.com/explore-scientific-mounts/explore-scientific-exos-2-pmc-eight-goto-mount.html  I also use the Asiair Pro to control everything & it all seems to work very well together.  

25 minutes ago, dieg00 said:

I see. Do you use it wide open at f/2? And how long are usually the exposures?

@dieg00 I usually stop it down to f2.8 but only because I find its harder (and it takes longer) to get a good precise focus @ f2. My subs also vary, dependent on the weather. If its intermittent cloud rolling past every now & again I'll keep them short to around 60 seconds as I dont want to ruin a long exposure with a rogue cloud, on a totally clear night (I've forgotten what they are like 🙄) I stick to 3 mins.
I've only been imaging for around 6 months & although I have a guide scope & camera i've yet to start guiding. I'm fairly proficient at setting up, PA etc now so I need to start (I had been putting it off due to it been a lot to take in when I was just starting out, i've no excuse now really). Once i'm guiding i'll go up to 5min subs.

Steve 

26 minutes ago, StarryEyed said:

I didnt know anyone older than me who still observed. But now I can say and with the exception of nephilim everyone else who replied to this thread! 

Keep it up. Your all an inspiration. 

@StarryEyed Thats very ageist of you 🤣

1 hour ago, mareman48 said:

Very good advice Steve, wish someone had given me such good advice when I first started! would have saved me lots of headaches and lots of £££

@mareman48 Thanks, When I first switched from visual astronomy to imaging I wasted a lot of money trying to do it on the cheap. An EQ5 mount with aftermarket motors, a cheap unmodified DSLR & my SW Explorer 200p that I used for visual & a modified (£5 off eBay) Xbox webcam as a guidescope 🤣 (although this did work quite well for very basic planetary imaging for £5). Needless to say it made a hobby with a very steep learning curve even harder, to a point where I actually gave up entirely on astronomy for a few years. This is one of the main reasons I always try to advise anyone whose starting out, whether its visual or imaging to do as much research as they can before making any purchases (its very easy just to jump straight in & regret it later). As with my experience making the wrong choices can put you off the hobby for good.

After moving house to a tiny village at the foot of the Northern Pennines (Bortle 3/ 4) & seeing  the Milky Way as a shimmering silver band everytime I stepped out of the front door on a night (On a rare clear night that is 😒) I decided around the end of 2020 that I would give it another go (I might have put astronomy 'on the shelf' for a few years but it never really leaves you) but this time do it properly, do as much research as possible, ask plenty of questions on here & actually take the advice given from others with more experience than me. It took me over a year to save up for everything (I'm not keen on credit) but I finally had everything I needed to start last August (or around then). Its been far from cheap but i'm finally taking images that i'm very happy with & it can only get better from here.

Its taken me a long time to reach this point but so worth it. This was the first image I took 🙂

Clear Skies

Steve

I was just about to mention maybe pinched optics. Materials obviously contract ever so slightly in the cold, a dew heater strap may remedy it & is worth a try.

I will add though that I also use the Samyang 135 & have imaged in temps ranging from approx +15⁰c to -10⁰c & have never seen this issue.

Steve

Well i'm 50 this year & feel old 😂 I do my best to keep in shape though. I live in Cumbria so i'm very active in the outdoors with hiking, mountain biking, climbing & fell running (well, I say running but its more like pretty fast walking these days 😬) I still have a lot more aches & pains than I did 20yrs ago.
I hope i've a fair few years left at the eyepiece although that should really be 'at the tablet' as all I do is image nowadays & dont even own an eyepiece now.

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/samyang-officially-teased-the-new-135mm-f-1-8-fe-lens/

Just spotted this, @ f1.8  I can't see it been of much interest to owners of the f2 version that most of us own. It'll be interesting to see if its as good for AP although I won't be buying one (...........Famous last words 😂)

22 hours ago, Graviton1 said:

Thanks so much for the help everyone.

I think I am going to save a bit and go for the SW 150p dob, definitely seems to tick all the boxes for me. Will probably be back asking for help on collimation the day it arrives (😫) but thank you for all the advice!

Cheers,

Sam

That's a good all rounder, nice & portable, easy to use & it'll show you a fair bit 'up there'.

I've owned 3 reflectors & never needed to collimate them straight away, probably just good luck.

There are plenty of tutorials on YouTube & it's not as daunting as it sounds.

On 30/12/2021 at 10:13, Graviton1 said:

Hi Steve,

Firstly thank you for your response. From your reply and others it does seem like a dobsonian will give me the best bang for my buck. I'll have a browse through the 2nd hand market as my plan was just to get a 'cheap' telescope to learn the basics of star gazing and then upgrade when I have a bit more of an idea what I'm actually doing... I've seen that people say to avoid this strategy as you may be put off the hobby by a cheap telescope with poor optics, but I'm fully aware of this issue. I'll keep searching for the time being and definitely not rush into buying anything, thank you for the great advice!!

Hi, I've just realised after singing the praises of a certain EP I actually forgot to name them 😂 These are the ones I mentioned. Good luck with your scope choice, second hand is a good way to go if on a tight budget & you can pick up some good bargains, especially just after xmas. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html

Steve

1 hour ago, Ande said:

I think the OP may have ran for the hills 😂

That was my thinking as well. Probably done some proper research, seen how much a half decent set up would/ could cost & thought, 'Nah, I'll take up vintage car restoration, it'll be far cheaper'. 😂😂

@mike1485& @Gunshy I've just downloaded this & will give it a try over the next couple of days on my most recent image (Widefield NA & Pelican Nebulas) I'm not sure if I'll get very far to start with as I'm fairly new to PI.
I'd also like to thank you for putting this out for anyone to use, its gestures such as this that restore a little bit of my faith in humanity 🙂

58 minutes ago, MKHACHFE said:

My wife bought me an astro modded Eos 1300D for Xmas. I absolutely cannot wait to try it to but it looks like I have no chance of doing this for the next week because of the absolutely crappy weather 😭😭

She got it from https://cheapastrophotography.com/available-cameras

@MKHACHFE So your to blame for me not been able to get more imaging time on my project these last few nights........Selfish 😂🤣

@Graviton1  Welcome to SGL & the minefield of buying your first scope.

As @bomberbaz mentions above, there are unfortunately no scopes that 'do it all'. The scope he mentions is also a very good choice, the only Dobsonian scopes that require a table are the very small beginners ones & also if faff is what your wanting to avoid then you really want to steer clear of a tripod. These are EQ mounts & only really a necessity if your imaging as they track the sky & avoid star trails. The Dobsonian is imo the best design for visual astronomy & for someone new to the hobby, they are very easy to set up & very easy to use plus you'll also get more scope for your money.
With your budget I would highly recommend the second hand market.  https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/   is a good place to look & you should be able to pick up a good quality 8" reflector for your money similar to this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

I will also say to be prepared for what you will actually see as far as deep space objects are concerned. Galaxies, nebula etc will only appear as faint, grey smudges with no colour. Quite a few advertisers from the lower end (read lower quality) of the market are very good at conning first timers that the images they will see will be the same as they show on their boxes, these images are usually M42 (The nebula in Orion), Barnard 33 (The Horsehead nebula) or M31 (The Andromeda Galaxy). You'll only get anywhere near these images with a camera & very deep pockets. Planetary on the other hand is a different story, with the scope i've linked (above) or the scope linked earlier (the 150p) you'll get some good views of the rings of Saturn, Jupiters  banding & Red Spot & also The Moon. 

You will also need to budget for eyepieces at some point as the usual 10mm &20 or 25mm that come with most scopes are very poor quality & sometimes put off newcomers to the point of giving up. EP's are another minefield & again second hand is the way to go if on a tight budget. In my opinion you cant go wrong with these, they are a good allrounder when it comes to cost & quality, I would personally start with a 5mm for planetary detail, an 18mm for globular star clusters & a 25mm for widefield views such as the double cluster in the sword handle of Perseus. I appreciate that those 3 would set you back £150 but second hand they go for around £35 each & you dont need to buy all at once.
Another thing I'll add is that a lot of (yet again) lower end brands of scope advertise unbelievable magnifications. Dont be swayed by that, some of these scopes may very well be able to achieve these magnifications but the views at that power will be far from satisfyingly. Have a read of this as its quite important.  https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/303667-what-is-the-maximum-magnification-you-use-in-uk/

I hope this has helped a little but it will probably have left you with more questions than answers. One thing to remember with this hobby is not to rush into buying until you've researched to death whatever it is your interested in. This hobby isn't cheap & the last thing you want is to end up buying the wrong thing & end up spending more money. Many of us on here have made that mistake (I'm guilty of it & not just the once) so ask as many questions as you want, you've come to the right place.

Steve

22 hours ago, Stardust said:

I'm  currently working on an image with this filter and very much liking what's  coming out.

@Stardust Thanks for replying.

I've heard good things about it but only from on line reviews. Could I ask how fast your imaging scope or camera lens is I tend to find faults become more apparent the faster the lens/ scope. As an example my Samyang 135mm lens tends to be better at f2.8  than it is at f2. Also, how is it with halos. I currently use the L-eXtreme dual NB filter with my ASI 533MC-Pro (OSC) & halos are a bit of an issue although when I separate the channels in PI the culprits seem to be Green & Blue with only minimal halo's in the Red (Ha) channel.

Regards
Steve

8 minutes ago, Gfamily said:

Massive amount of fisheye distortion in that image. Check out the shape of the doorway on the right. 🙂

There is, I hadn't noticed that 😂

Taken Friday 17th Dec but I've only just got round to processing but to be honest I'm not sure I'm happy with the colour. I was trying to do a Hubble 'style' process which has worked fairly well on a previous image. I'll more than likely come back to this shortly & just process it as a normal RGB image.
It's the first time I've had even a sniff of a clear sky over the last month or so & this night still wasn't very clear hence sticking to 60 second subs. I managed a total of 4hrs but still had to throw out 2hrs due to cloud.

The North American Nebula including the Cygnus Wall & The Pelican Nebula.

I just love the FOV with this lens & hopefully I wont have too long to wait until I can get more time on it before it loses its good position in the sky in around a moths time.

145x 1 min
30x Darks
20x Flats
Bortle 4
SQL 21.66
Equipment used as per my signature but with no guiding
Stacked & processed etc in PI

Thanks for looking

Steve

9 hours ago, nfotis said:

just saw it mentioned on the ZWO page:

"guiding accuracy is 0.5 to 0.8 arc seconds"

So, I suppose that puts a lower limit to the guiding accuracy, right?

Aside: If I want to use my C9.25 for DSO imaging or my Skymax 180, would a CEM40/EQ6-R and an OAG manage an accurate enough guiding? Or I would have to go to a pricey mount?

The C 9.25 @ 9kg & Skymax @ 7kg you'll easily accommodate them on the EQ6 Pro with an imaging capacity of 20kg

1 hour ago, Elp said:

I think given the option the majority would choose an eq6 pro. Also as it's zwos gen 1 product it needs time to prove itself. Other manufacturers are already generations ahead experience wise for this type of thing.

Considering the price of the ZWO plus I'm sure it'll be prone to teething problems, I'd definitely take the EQ6 Pro over it any day of the week (you'd still have change left for something else as well).

31 minutes ago, Hogarth said:

significantly cheaper than Crux or Rainbox Astro, but are there reason why... I've got a 'reaction and my own thoughts video uploading to YT' if anyones interested

 

@Hogarth I'd be interested if you can post details here 🙂

17 minutes ago, gilesco said:

We are the same! Happy festivities to all!

@gilesco And to you too 🙂

1 hour ago, gilesco said:

I always had an interest, for as long as I can remember. The advice was, at the time, do naked eye seeing first (my eyesight is terrible), then move to binos (can't really keep my hands steady enough). Then if you're happy with the results (results were terrible, really), invest in something a bit better.

It was only after spending a lot more money (and 40 years waiting to be able to afford it), that I'm fulfilling my expectations through astrophotography.

There are many dissuaders to making that investment to this hobby, but I would just say, as long as you are not remortgaging the house, go for it.

@gilesco My story is very similar. Its taken me until around a year ago, at 49yrs old to be able to buy ( and justify......just 😂) a half decent AP set up & even then as I dont like credit, it took me around 14 months of buying one piece of gear each month to finally have enough to start to make a start.
Back in the 70's when my interest started the high point of the hobby was buying a Tasco frac (although I had to use my friends newly purchased one......He quickly became my 'best friend' 😂). Any scope over the standard 2.5" was an absolute fortune & as for buying AP equipment, that was totally unheard of unless you were either a millionaire or one of your parents were.
Friends I have these days who have no interest in astronomy will gasp at the price of AP gear & how much I'm willing to spend on 'a piece of glass'. But if they look back to the cost a few decades ago they would gasp far louder. If we consider what our AP gear can actually do, the cost doesn't seem so high.
The Earth is spinning at approx 1000 mph & we are able to actually photograph targets (most of these targets are made of gas) we cant see with the naked eye while we whirl around like a spinning top. Now & again I relay these facts to my friends but its pointless as I can see them slowly starting to drift away which is how I must look when they start talking about football or any sport that involves a ball for that matter 🥱😴. 

So anyway as far as I'm concerned our hobby is very reasonably priced. The main reason I'm typing all of the above is because I'm very soon going to be spending X amount of £££ on yet another piece of glass only days after Christmas & I have to remind myself of what an absolute bargain it is 😂😂

Steve