Serious Concerns over Sky-Watcher Observing Chair Safety

[great_bear]

I sent Steve at FLO - and also OVL - this message today:

I purchased the Sky-Watcher Observing Chair recently. Whilst I am happy that I am competent to continue using it for personal use, I am deeply concerned that this chair is extremely dangerous. I believe that it should be withdrawn from sale as it may cause accidents resulting in serious spinal injuries, leaving a customer wheelchair-bound. It may also cause damage to fingers etc. I think this chair should not be sold until modified for safety.

Does anyone else have any thoughts or concerns about the safety of the Sky-Watcher Observing Chair?

[Brett]

Hi Great-Bear

What exactly are the problems with the chair and what danger does it pose ? I was considering buying this but will hold off until I know more

Brett

[Doc]

For you to keep using this chair knowing it has issues, in my mind is a bit foolish.

[great_bear]

For you to keep using this chair knowing it has issues, in my mind is a bit foolish.

It's because I can modify it myself for safety.

[Helen]

Can you tell us what the problem is though - we used one all weekend and didn't have any problems

Helen

[dweller25]

GB - your post is concerning me as I was going to buy one of these.

Please clarify what you think is unsafe and how you believe you can modify it.

[great_bear]

What exactly are the problems with the chair and what danger does it pose ?

The specific issue, is that at the slightest touch, the base of the chair collapses to the floor. Since it is a common reflex for a person to reach behind them to touch the edge of a chair as they sit down, this causes the seat to collapse under them, possibly resulting in a serious fall.

This may be in contravention of European safety standard EN 12520:2010 'Furniture - Strength, durability and safety - Requirements for domestic seating' which states that load-bearing parts of the seating must not be able to come loose unintentionally. However the SkyWatcher chair may fall outside of this legislation, since it is designed for outdoor use.

[MartinB]

I like mine but you do have to take a bit of care. The seat falls to the bottom of the chair the instant the friction grip is lost. Normally when you stand up the seat stays in place but it only takes a little movement for the seat to drop down. Keeping hold of the seat can aggravate the problem because this can actually act to release the grip.

I found it more of a nuisance than a hazard and I wasn't using it in the way it was intended, I was trying to get in position to view through a refractor guidescope close to the ground (imaging set up so minimal extension of tripod).

I could see a potential problem for someone holding the seat who momentarily takes their weight off it to change position, releases the grip and sits down heavily at the same moment.

I never actually had a problem and am more than happy to keep using mine.

[FLO]

Hi Jeremy, I have just seen your email.

Whilst we haven't noticed any problems, nor had anyone else report any, you are welcome to a refund.

Indeed, if you think there is something faulty or dangerous about your chair I would respectfully insist that you stop using it and allow us to collect it.

My own experience of the chair is that the front of the seat must first be lifted before it can be adjusted. It will be interesting to hear what others think.

Hope that helps.

Steve

[great_bear]

Hi Steve,

Me getting a refund won't make the chair safer.

- as I said in the original post, I'm personally happy to keep it because I'm aware of the issue and I can also do some minor mods for safety. Fixing it is pretty simple, and there's a number of options.

My own feelings are as MartinB above.

But it's not me I'm interested in. It's other people. A dinner party guest wanting to take a view through the scope (when your back is turned) can and will reach underneath them to tug the chair closer if they're not used to it.

It's at that moment that the base collapses.

It's an accident waiting to happen and it's obvious when you look at its design that its bound to happen sooner or later.

If Optical Vision Ltd. don't express any concerns then I guess I just refer it to the Health and Safety people at Trading Standards and get them to look at it. I have a nephew in a wheelchair and it's not right to turn a blind eye when this is clearly dangerous.

[Merlin66]

In the past, similar friction lock chairs were built by many amateurs astronomers around the world ( myself included). I used wooden rails etc but found the addition of a light tension spring attached to a side plate was all that was needed to hold the seat in position. Yes, prior to fitting the spring if you accidentally knocked or raised the front of the seat it would collapse to the ground!

Ken

[Doc]

So it's safe when there is a load on the seat and unsafe when there is no load is that correct as I was also going to order one as I'm fed up of my ironing chair.

[insomnia]

If someone has a safety issue with this chair then the first approach should be to Trading standards and not to a supplier. You need to go to the manufacturer, but seeing as no-one has been hurt then I doubt the chair will be with-drawn.

As FLO has said if you are unhappy with the product then you will get a refund.

At this moment it is just scare mongering and causing panic because of a personal opinion.

[FLO]

Hi Steve,

Me getting a refund won't make the chair safer.

But it will eliminate any possibility of you injuring yourself.

.... I'm personally happy to keep it ...

That is your choice but I would be much happier if you would let us collect it - please

.... it's not right to turn a blind eye when this is clearly dangerous.

Nobody has turned a blind eye, at least nobody I know. We have removed the chair from our online store and look forward to collecting your chair.

Hope that helps,

Steve

[pvaz]

I just been reading as an interested possible costumer for this item.

The design seams to be the same as other astronomy chairs I seen online (some of them home made). Although it's not the safest design it seams clear for the buyer how it operates, you just need to know you need to put weight on it to keep it locked.

Surely it won't be wise to let a child use it, but you can say the same about a chain saw, a pencil (may blind you) or a plastic bag (may suffocate you). I'd say keep it stored when you have guests or take the time to warn them.

I think contacting the manufacturer to improve the system or add the due warnings on the manual is worthwhile.

[insomnia]

If somebody does keep the chair and does alter the chair in any way, surely this action will mean that it is no longer covered by the warranty?

If any homemade alterations are made to the chair, and is does collapse, then am I right in saying that the manufacturer and retailer are not liable if injury does occur, and it would be the person who made the alterations who is at fault?

Just asking

Maybe saving this thread "just in case" would be prudent.

[MartinB]

It's certainly very comfortable and also nice and stable. You can lean well forward or rest against the back without the base being unbalanced. The seat is nicely padded and comfy even if you are sitting right on the edge. If also folds away very easily and neatly. I certainly don't regard it as dangerous as all the plugs and electrical supplies I have around a dewy garden. Actually the only time it nearly injured me at SGL5 was when I wasn't using it - kept walking into it because it's black!

[zhgutas]

Surely it won't be wise to let a child use it, but you can say the same about a chain saw, a pencil (may blind you) or a plastic bag (may suffocate you).

Absolutely agree. There is no safety measures that can protect against ignorance or stupidity. Hundreds of everyday items can be potentially dangerous or lethal if mishandled. Besides, imho, these chairs seam to be not much different than a seat in a tube which folds back when not in use eh?. and they are still in use..

[pvaz]

I didn't mean to imply stupidity, a small child may easily put a bag over the head and suffocate. I just mean it doesn't seam THAT dangerous if the user is well informed on how the system operates. Still if the manufacturer can improve the safety then he should but I don't see a reason to remove it from sale. There are certainly more dangerous everyday items on any store we walk in.

[AllanJ]

I acquired one of these chairs a few days ago. It is comfortable and can be adjusted easily to the desired height. When there is weight on it, even just a little palm pressure on the front, it stays locked by friction very well. Yes, if you knock the front up when adjusting the scope or staggering around (sober) after trying not to trip over a cable (is there a health and safety issue about black cables in the dark), then it will suddenly drop down. If there is a concern with dinner party guests I would be more worried about them being sober enough to avoid damaging the scope; if you advise a guest on how to treat your viewing equipment then its not much of a jump to advise them about the chair (I was standing on a couple of boxes to look through a big dob at SGL5, and nobody warned me not to fall off!). After reading the posts I went into my garage and dug out a strong stall clip (one of those things that keep the covers on market stalls). Put that on the upright once you are settled at a particular height and I don't think the seat will fall accidentally, and it's a quick release when you want to move it. Allan

[insomnia]

Reminds me of all the mishaps people have had with the traditional sea-side deckchair.

Even though the humble deckchair was a pain in the arris to put up and frequently collapsed, making humorous You've been framed moments, it was never made out to be a dangerous health risk.

[MartinB]

that's a neat suggestion Allan.

[insomnia]

Allan's suggestion is great in principle.

But has the stall clip been passed by current safety regulations, and is a recognised kite mark clearly visible?

[AllanJ]

The clip had some tools hanging on it for the last 10 years or so and hadn't fallen off. If you follow my suggestion, then you mustn't catch your fingers in it.

[insomnia]

Maybe to add to my astro kit should be steel toe-cap boots, safety goggles, welders gloves and traffic cones.

The fact that it has held fast for 10 yrs is good enough for me.