eyepiece pricing 'sweet spot'?

[borobiffa]

Hi everyone. I now have my 8" skyliner dob with its 10 & 25 mm lenses. I think I've got to grips with collimation and managed to set up my telrad and focusser appropriately. Sadly the weather has not been kind, but as its payday tomorrow I can think about buying something. It would seem that I should extend my eyepiece collection and reading some of the pinned primers/tutorials (which are excellent) it looks like I should think about 5, 10, 16 & 25mm eyepieces. I guess my first question is am I better off 'completing' the set to begin with - ie getting a 5 or 16mm eyepiece, starting from scratch and building a set of quality eyepiecse or getting a barlow? My main interest so far (with my celestron binoculars) has been the moon and the planets, if that helps. My second question is trying to understand the 'sweet spot' for buying eyepieces. From what I've seen so far I could spent between £10 and £250 on a single eyepiece. I would guess that as with most other things in life you get what you pay for, but beyond a certain point the difference is only discernable with a lot of effort or to those who really, really care about having the best. I'm happy to spend the money as long as I can see the 'value' in what I've bought - for example I happily drive a skoda because it gets me from A to B and is comfortable, reliable, cheap to buy and cheap to run, but because I love music my hi-fi is comparatively expensive. When does the 'Bang for my buck' start to tail off with eyepieces and what brands are worth looking at?

[ronin]

A lot depends on what it is that you consider good in an eyepiece.

It also depends on what the budget is that you want to spend.

Your scope is f/6 I suspect, the eyepiece's that came with it are MA's, Modified Achromatics.

In general the 10mm and the barlow are poor.

In the plossl line the Vixen NPL's are good the TV plossl's better.

I am not sure that either are parfocal, and this means that when you swap eyepieces you will need to refocus a bit. OK not exactly difficult but it is a factor. Plossl's have a field of about 50 degrees.

What normally gets recommended next are the BST Starguiders and the Celestron X-Cels. Performance wise they are pretty identical. Within the set they are parfocal so less refocusing (they are not perfectly parfocal, and anyway everyone adjusts the focus when swapping eyepieces). Both these have a 60 degree field, so more chance that the object will still be in view when you swap eyepieces.

Next that I know of are the Antares W70 eyepieces, as the name implies they have a 70 degree field. They do come in some odd focal lengths.

Then you are into the ES range, I have read good and bad things about the ES 68 range. The ES 82 range gets good reviews.

Then I think it is TV delos area.

I have the BST Starguiders, full set, and am pleased with their performance. Especially as I bought them when called Explorers and they were £38 (maybe £36) each at that time.

Sweet spot is different for different people, the BST's are £49, the X-Cels are £64 presently, but the X-Cels have a nicer selection at the lower end. So if this better selection is relevant then although more cost they become a contender.

[borobiffa]

Thanks Ronin, I'll take a look at these. I know its not that simple, but I'm kind of hoping for an indication that (for example) if you spend X on 'mid-range' BSTs or X-cels then you'll really notice the difference to the standard kit eyepeices that come with the scope, but TVs (Televues?), although 3x as expensive aren't 3x better, but are worth it if you want the very best.

[John]

Optically I feel you can have eyepiece excellence for around £50 a throw if you are prepared to do without a wide field of view and long eye relief. The Baader Classic Orthoscopic eyepieces are examples of this - optically really, really good but with rather plain bodywork and sporting a rather moderate 50 degree apparent field of view. They can outperform £250-£400 eyepieces in some respects though.

Personally I'd rather have, say, 3, really good quality eyepieces than a complete set of mediocre ones. 

Once you get a taste for wide or ultra wide angle views and you want those views to be sharp right across the field of view even with F/6 of F/5 scopes then the investment climbs steeply because achieving those goals requires special glass types, sophisticated optical design, precise figuring and mounting of lenses and a high degree of quality testing during manufacture. All expensive of course.

No eyepiece is 3x better than another one - the differences are always incremental and those increments get smaller as you go up the cost ladder. This does not seem to prevent many craving them though, from the contents of the eyepiece cases pictured in the eyepiece section of the forum !

[Tinker1947]

I would go with John on the few quality EP's than loads of not so good type, range wise a 30mm or there about around 70' FOV , some thing between 17 - 22mm  and between 10 - 14mm will give you good views over 65' FOV  higher power EP's i have them, but they get next to no use only a few really good nights so leave them to last.....

[ronin]

I have always found it easy to make a choice, and I prefer a set of eyepieces.

The BST's arrived on the scene and that were right for me, so I got the lot.

As the cost was less then, it was an even easier decision.

Owing to my liking for a set then doing the same with say TV Delos is simply too costly as far as I am concerned, same with ES 82's. So in some ways collecting a set has saved me money.

I also have the TV plossl's and the WO SWANS (again all of them). I suppose that could be a complusive disorder in a minor way.. Maybe others as well, lost track.

Look at it this way:

Are BST's - Worse performance then a Delos and more cost then a plossl, or, better performance then a plossl and less cost then a Delos ?

[bomberbaz]

Fwiw the skywatcher 22mm swa eyepiece is in my opinion the most unsung piece of glass currently available. At 70d fov its unsirpassed at its price range. Again subjective but there aerespected members of this forum who share my views. Ps, i am not on a sell % hehe.

[damnut]

Another vote for the BST starguiders. As the first leap up from standard fare they are excellent. I have bought second hand some other ep's, but personally I cannot justify the cost new of higher end eyepieces. However those lucky enough to have these have been kind enough to let me look hrough their kit and the views are excellent.

There was an Axiom 31mm for sale recently in the classifieds for £100...

[Paul73]

For longer (lower mag) eyepieces head for the MaxVision 68° range straight away. I got the 24mm first. It is still my favourite galaxy hunting weapon. For the higher magnifications, the Vixen range all seem to get good press.

If the above are in the £70 - £110 price bracket.

As mentioned by Damnut above. If you would like to spend less, the BST range Perform really well in your scope and are an absolute bargain at £50 each.

If you want to get the absolute best out of your scope, the Televue Delos range at £250 a go are phenomenal..... I'd head for the mid price range first. Learn your scope and what works for you and go from there.

Paul

[John]

...If you want to get the absolute best out of your scope, the Televue Delos range at £250 a go are phenomenal..... I'd head for the mid price range first. Learn your scope and what works for you and go from there.

Paul

I agree that the Delos are great eyepieces. It's a tribute to the Baader Classic Orthos though that the 10mm from that range was found, in recent tests in the USA, to go slightly "deeper" on deep sky objects than the 10mm Delos which is itself one of the best. Not bad for a sub £50 eyepiece

[Uhwaz]

Baader MKIII 8-24x zoom with barlow used 95% of the time 

[bingevader]

For longer (lower mag) eyepieces head for the MaxVision 68° range straight away.

Almost probably definitely the best punch-per-pound (if that's the equivalent  ) at the mo. Wolves (Meade 5000 SWAs) in lambs (Maxvision) clothing. Although, to be honest, they look almost identical. 

[bomberbaz]

BobBorobiffa, just been thinking about your openi g statement re ideal ep,s and your F6 /1200 and for your scopes best eyepiece selection IMO would be 6, 10, 16-18 and then a 30-32.

Gives you x200 through to x35/40. Plenty of time to fill izn some of the gaps later, jusjust a thought.

[borobiffa]

Hi all, thanks for all the great advice - I'm now off to look at prices! BSTs and Baader's look like a good place to start.

[bomberbaz]

Hi all, thanks for all the great advice - I'm now off to look at prices! BSTs and Baader's look like a good place to start.

Also you could look at celestron's x-cels, very nice epep's too

[borobiffa]

Funnily enough baz I've just been looking At x-cels!

[Obi Wan]

I like the x-cells too. Also have a couple of hyperlinks which are also very good.

[Obi Wan]

That should be x-cel and hyperiums - I hate predictive text!!

[John]

Make sure it's the X-Cel LX that you are looking at. The original X-Cel's did not have much of a reputation but the X-Cel LX's are much better.

Hyperions are great in a slow scope like an SCT or a mak-cassegrains but are not well corrected when used at F/7 or faster.

[Paul73]

I agree that the Delos are great eyepieces. It's a tribute to the Baader Classic Orthos though that the 10mm from that range was found, in recent tests in the USA, to go slightly "deeper" on deep sky objects than the 10mm Delos which is itself one of the best. Not bad for a sub £50 eyepiece

Ooo got to try one of them. I have seen recommendations before but haven't realised that they are that good.

I guess that we forget that it is the "trying to get an eyepiece to be great at everything" that gets really expensive. Getting a eyepiece to be great at one element whilst accepting sacrifices in other elements is a lot cheaper.

That said, I spent a while comparing the BST 8mm with the Delos 8mm last night under moon polluted sky. They are both generalists. The Delos won narrow victories in all areas. But, when you consider the £200 price difference, the BST performed admirably. I'm pretty certain that the gap would widen under darker sky. However, that is a whole different thread.

Paul

[LukeSkywatcher]

My EP collection is a mish-mash of brands, but dominated by Vixen. I also have a Hyperion 8-24mm Mk III zoom, which i use pretty much exclusively now because it just makes life easier for me to have a single EP rather then a case full of them and having to change them as and when while observing.