Next cheapest upgrade to xBox webcam

[Langy]

I bought the xBox webcam for the real cheap price of under £5 delivered new. Mainly because I didn't want to spend a lot of money on something that may not have worked or got wrecked when I attempted the mod.

What would be the next step up of a webcam to gain quality?

I know the SPC gets a lot of mention, but they are only second hand and actually quite a lot more money. So I'm looking for a list of what is the next in better quality and then what after that so I can decide on price etc. how many steps up I make in the quality leap.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

When it comes to planetary imaging, I think you will find that pretty much all of these modifiable webcams will give pretty similar quality.

So I don´t think you will gain anything really by upgrading to yet another webcam.

So the any "real" next step up would be either a second hand SPC900 (if you want to stay below 100 pounds) or a dedicated planetary camera like the (best bang for buck) QHY5L-II color camera.

[Mr TamiyaCowboy]

maybe looking at a second hand HD webcam something like a microsoft lifecam cinema / studio. 

have to remember xbox cams are small framed 640x480 

HD cams like a 720p is 1280x720, bigger surface 

your also getting a more better image quality being HD 

compare images of the same object but one image taken with an xbox cam.

the other taken with a HD cam, i am sure there is going to be more quality and image with the better HD camera.

after that you can step into DSLR and/or video CCTV styled cameras /astro cameras.

i also found this article online where the go Head to head with a SPC900 vs Xbox cam vs lifecam 

well worth a look 

http://www.tanstaafl.co.uk/2012/12/spc900-vs-xbox-live-cam-vs-lifecam-cinema/

[Langy]

Thanks I will take a look.

I did wonder on the HD if they were a bigger sensor which then just reduces the image size. As to when I user my DSLR for static images the sensor is so much bigger, therefore resulting in a moon shot frame filling with a 2x Barlows and the xBox webcam more than fills the frame with no Barlows as the chip is so small.

[toxic]

hi langy

if it helps i took this 3 days ago with the lifecam hd 3000 to test it on a planet i didnt get it for that purpose i got it for guiding because it is way more sensitive then any other webs i have tried ie xbox cam-ps3 eyetoy logiteche quick cam 3000-4000 to name just a few and the lifecam was only £15 hope this helps.

[RichM63]

Good thread langy/Paul.

Due to your editing permissions, may I suggest that you edit your first post in the thread to include a list of people's recommendations.

It would be great to see at a glance just what webcams are being used for Astro' work.

I think I've fried my SPC900NC, I simply can't get it work anymore under W7 Ultimate. :( It just flashes the led on/off and that is it, no longer installs.

I'm seriously sad.

Rich

[happy-kat]

There is a flash for that cam I think that makes w7 deal with it.

[Langy]

I think that if I can get a lifecam cheap and I mean no more than £15 as they seem to be selling for silly money (seen some over £40) then I may well get one. The review in the link was a good read. However I don't think that the image quality difference between the basic and HD cam warrants a big difference.

Due to your editing permissions, may I suggest that you edit your first post in the thread to include a list of people's recommendations.

I believe my original post does ask for a list of where to go next between the basic xBox webcam and the SPC. There isn't a great choice, you can find 100's of different sorts on eBay mostly unbranded but I suspect that drivers will not allow full control of what you need on the cams, which I found on the first one I bought.

[happy-kat]

If you read through that massive post by star gazing cliff lots of different webcams have been tried

[Mr TamiyaCowboy]

is cliff still around. 

yeah i remember he went crazy on the xbox cam modding, not a bad camera for a few quid. 

the holy grail of webcams is the SPC900 , its just fully unlocked, ie you have control over gain and brightness.

most cheapy cameras and those including HD use a linked gain and brightness. as you start to boost

the camera starts to ramp up the gain to compensate.

you can see this on the xbox cams and likes when running in SHARPCAP, video amp is gray

same is for all the other options. 

the problem is webcams are fully auto, you buy it, shove it ontop pc and it works. no messing around

it does everything for the user. Problem is for us users this auto mode really holds us back.

if we had control over the exposure time as in seconds/mins and not hundred/thousand of seconds

we would have more control of the capturing of images. alas webcam are really only go for planets, solar and lunar observing.

[JamesF]

I can't see much value in the HD webcams over a 640x480 camera for planetary imaging to be honest.  Pixel size isn't desperately relevant and having a large sensor that you're not using most of is also pointless for planetary imaging.  Where one of the HD lifecams might be useful would be for lunar imaging.

If you look purely at performance vs. price then I think the SPC900 at £50 to £60 is still reasonable.  I've seen nothing in a similar bracket that produces better results.  In terms of technology it's way behind the curve, but it has a good sensor and just happens to work well for planetary imaging.

Beyond that there are a range of cameras around the £100 mark based on the same sensor as the SPC900 that can be bought new with a USB2.0 interface and theoretically should be better than it, but there's precious little evidence of what they're capable of.  Scopium do one, TS have one as well I think; Opticstar have one although it seems overpriced to me and I've heard the firmware is not good.

Then there's the ASI034MC at around £120.  Obviously the ASI120 cameras have a good reputation, but again example images from the 034MC seem to be rare.

Beyond that (in terms of price, if not technology) there are the DFK21/DMK21 cameras, but these days they look very expensive for what they are, even second hand.

James

[Langy]

All well beyond on what I would want to spend just to capture some Lunar or Planetary images.

This is why I asked in the post for what is between the xBox basic webcam and the SPC to gain in image quality.

It's all part of my process of getting the best from my cheap scope but not paying silly money to gain a little better, which then becomes pointless if the scope isn't capable of it in the first place.

[JamesF]

I'm really not sure there is anything in that case

Even by the time you've bought one of the Lifecams, some sort of case to rehouse it in and an IR filter you're really not going to be much off the price of an SPC900, and it's a much more awkward mod because you have to take it completely apart and cut or desolder the lens from the PCB.

James

[happy-kat]

interesting thread

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/146261-asda-293-webcam/page-4

[Andy Milner]

I've got the lifecam and intend on modding it. Would a filter be recommended to protect it when guiding?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JamesF]

Keeping dust off the sensor makes sense.  They can be a pig to get properly clean.

James

[Langy]

Would a filter be of benefit? I took the stock one out of the xBox cam as required but not used a filter.

However the other night i stuck a ND filter in and actually got some detail recorded on Jupiter for the first time.

Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Tapatalk

[JamesF]

I would have thought that a proper astro IR filter would help, yes.  Quite how much I'm not sure though.

James

[Langy]

Thanks I will look into that one. A filter may be a better buy than another webcam.

[Kbramley]

I opted to mod a PS3 Eye cam, it allows long exposures of upto 10secs and will allow you to optain the RAW data without the horrible bayer interpolation being applied, it will also allow 85FPS at 640x480 - I have not tested it yet on Planets, but appears to work great on the moon. The one I got I took a stage further and removed the CFA (The RGB matrix covering the sensor) thus its now a true monochrome cam. Heres a link to the page whre I tested it out http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/210686-moon-with-de-bayered-ps3-eye-cam/?p=2248885 , there is also a link there to some software I lashed up that allows you to stream the RAW data, or to run the cam normally just use the standard PC driver.

Oh and the cam only cost £7 off ebay

HTH

Keith

[astromerlin]

I opted to mod a PS3 Eye cam, it allows long exposures of upto 10secs and will allow you to optain the RAW data without the horrible bayer interpolation being applied, it will also allow 85FPS at 640x480 - I have not tested it yet on Planets, but appears to work great on the moon. The one I got I took a stage further and removed the CFA (The RGB matrix covering the sensor) thus its now a true monochrome cam. Heres a link to the page whre I tested it out http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/210686-moon-with-de-bayered-ps3-eye-cam/?p=2248885 , there is also a link there to some software I lashed up that allows you to stream the RAW data, or to run the cam normally just use the standard PC driver.

Oh and the cam only cost £7 off ebay

HTH

Keith

I bought one off the bay to use as a guidecam. It seems to have everything required for planetary and guiding but I found it was quite noisy which got worse as through the nights use so I went back to using a Philips Vesta (lx modded)

After reading that you've managed to debayer yours I might have a go myself and perhaps rebox the webcam and include a fan or some sort of cooling.