Beginners Scope ??

[Chris E]

Hi there, I'm new to the site and have posted a few comments, I dont have a scope at the moment and I'm looking for my 1st ever one, I'd like to see Saturn , and look at stars , moons and anything else up there, like I say this will be my first scope, so pls be honest and tell me to stay away, or its not a bad 1st scope , Chris New! Astronomical 200 8" Reflector Telescope on eBay (end time 14-Apr-11 23:20:45 BST)

PS, I would like also to take pictures of the things I see but dont have a DSLR, just a samsung digital camera 12.1 Mp, can these be conected to the viewing eye piece ??

[nightfisher]

scope looks ok but look on FLO`s website at skywatcher 200 on eq5 they superb to deal with.

you can connect camera to scope in afocal method, using an adaptor to mount camera to eye piece

[lw24]

Could you tell us a bit more about where you will use your telescope, for example if you are just going to use it in your back garden, or if you are planning on taking it out occasionally.

If you're just staying in your back garden, I'd reccommend this as a first telescope.

If you want your telescope to be portable, I'd reccommend these:

Skywatcher Startravel 120 (AZ3) I know what everyone will say about that telescope: "Start with a reflector, it gives most aperture for the money" etc etc. That was my first telescope, and it's great! No collimation issues, no cooldown issues, and it gives great widefield views, you just have to know where to look.

Skywatcher Heritage 130P I will reccommend one Dobsonian, but only because this one is extremely portable. The issue I have with Dobs as first telescopes is the following: If I bought a Skwatcher Skyliner 150p Dobsonian as my first telescope, then decided I would also buy another telescope to take on holiday, e.g. Skywatcher Skymax 102 (Maksutov Cassegrain), I wouldn't have a mount to put it on. I'd have to buy the package (Skymax 102 + EQ2). The EQ2 mount is not a great mount, and you'd be left wanting a better mount.

All I can say is choose what suits you, everyone is different.

[Rossco72]

Now that First Light Optics are open again, give them a call to discuss your needs.

The guys will help you consider your budget, aims, location, light pollution, travel/portability issues, tracking/photography etc and steer you in the right direction.

They usually price match on most stuff too so you can't really go wrong and you get A1 customer support which is vital on your first scope in particular.

[Chris E]

Now that First Light Optics are open again, give them a call to discuss your needs.

The guys will help you consider your budget, aims, location, light pollution, travel/portability issues, tracking/photography etc and steer you in the right direction.

They usually price match on most stuff too so you can't really go wrong and you get A1 customer support which is vital on your first scope in particular.

Cheers Stuart, thank you so much )))

[Chris E]

PS, where is 1st light optics ???

[Chris E]

PS, where is 1st light optics ???

Ok , found it now

[Chris E]

Could you tell us a bit more about where you will use your telescope, for example if you are just going to use it in your back garden, or if you are planning on taking it out occasionally.

If you're just staying in your back garden, I'd reccommend this as a first telescope.

If you want your telescope to be portable, I'd reccommend these:

Skywatcher Startravel 120 (AZ3) I know what everyone will say about that telescope: "Start with a reflector, it gives most aperture for the money" etc etc. That was my first telescope, and it's great! No collimation issues, no cooldown issues, and it gives great widefield views, you just have to know where to look.

Skywatcher Heritage 130P I will reccommend one Dobsonian, but only because this one is extremely portable. The issue I have with Dobs as first telescopes is the following: If I bought a Skwatcher Skyliner 150p Dobsonian as my first telescope, then decided I would also buy another telescope to take on holiday, e.g. Skywatcher Skymax 102 (Maksutov Cassegrain), I wouldn't have a mount to put it on. I'd have to buy the package (Skymax 102 + EQ2). The EQ2 mount is not a great mount, and you'd be left wanting a better mount.

All I can say is choose what suits you, everyone is different.

Hi there IW, I'll probably be using it 99.9% of the time here in the back garden, and then storing it in one of the rear bedrooms that arn't used, Ps, what is a "cooldown issue", excuse the Stupid question, I've read people use the word "cooldown" but don't knoiw what it is ??..........PPs, my wife's uncle used to have a Cassegrain, but wasn't happt with it, he didn't say what he didn't like about but has moved onto something else, but i don't know what, thanks for your help again

Chris

Chris

[Rossco72]

closed systems like Cassegrains and Maks take a considerable amount of time to reach ambient temperature.

Open systems like Newts cool quicker and Refractors aren't usually too bad as there is only the lens at the front to worry about.

Until the scope cools down there are distortions in the view as a result of tube currents as the air inside the scope is warmer than the outside air and moves around.

Telescopes stored indoors require anything from 30 minutes to 2 hours to achieve ambient temperature outside.

[Chris E]

closed systems like Cassegrains and Maks take a considerable amount of time to reach ambient temperature.

Open systems like Newts cool quicker and Refractors aren't usually too bad as there is only the lens at the front to worry about.

Until the scope cools down there are distortions in the view as a result of tube currents as the air inside the scope is warmer than the outside air and moves around.

Telescopes stored indoors require anything from 30 minutes to 2 hours to achieve ambient temperature outside.

Cheers Stuart thanks for your help again )))), God this is complicated lol, So am I gonna have to just sit my scope on the back patio for a while till it cools down before I can see anything ??? (if its been stored indoors) or would it be best to leave it in the garage ???.........Just had a look at your photos Stu, nice kit, god that looks complicated and very nearly put me off getting a scope altogether !!!!

Chris

[lw24]

It's not complicated, honestly.

I've had my first scope for around a month now, haven't bought any accessories (apart from a moon filter) and have been having great fun and have got lots of enjoyment out of it.

If you don't mind leaving it in the garage, then that would help it cool quicker.

Seeing as I have a refractor, mine only takes around 5-10 minutes to cool, and this usually happens whilst I'm setting the mount up.

Clear Skies

[twotter]

On the subject of cool down, I have a Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian, which I store in a shaded corner of our conservatory.

On clear nights (cough, cough) I take it out onto the patio an hour before I intend observing. Usually somewhere between 21:00 and 22:00. The telescope is left tilted 90 degrees with the end cap removed.

[Chris E]

On the subject of cool down, I have a Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian, which I store in a shaded corner of our conservatory.

On clear nights (cough, cough) I take it out onto the patio an hour before I intend observing. Usually somewhere between 21:00 and 22:00. The telescope is left tilted 90 degrees with the end cap removed.

Cheers Twotter, Do ALL (ok most ) scopes need to cool down then, and are some worse than others, and are there any I need to avoid....Thanks again for all your help, I'm in a minefield here and don't know what to buy (((

[lw24]

Right, all scopes need to cool down, but for different times;

A refractors cooldown time is almost non-existent (5 minutes)

A reflectors can take a bit longer (30mins to 1hour)

And a mak/cassegrains take even longer (1 to 2 hours)

This cooldown time doesn't mean you can't use it in this time, just image quality wont be at its best.

If I were you, I'd avoid getting a Maksutov/Schmitt Cassegrain for the time being. Focus on either Reflector or Refractor.

Here's some benefits/disadvantages of both Reflector and Refractor:

Reflector:

-More aperture (more light gathering) for the money

-You can get them on Dobsonian mounts <--- Very effective beginner mount

-Requires collimation every so often (please don't ask me about this, as I have never done it as I have a refractor only)

-Longer cooldown times

-Have coma (again, don't ask me, as I don't have a reflector)

Refractor:

-Quick cooldown times

-Generally more portable (I think, I may be wrong)

-Has Chromatic Abberation. This is where all the light from the visible light spectrum doesn't all 'meet' at the same point, causing blue/green/purple halos around the edges of some bright objects. The amount of this decreases as the focal ratio changes (the f/ number). For example, I have an f/5 telescope, which gives a lot more chromatic abberation than an f/10 telescope, but I don't mind it that much, as it's only apparent on bright objects (Moon, Jupiter, Venus etc). I haven't really seen much of it on Saturn, so all's good!

-Less aperture for the money

There are benefits and drawbacks for both types of telescope, so what I'll do in a minute (on a new post), is list some telescopes that I think are good telescopes (both reflectors and refractors), then you can ask some questions about them if you want.

We've all been in the situation your in at the moment, so don't be afraid to ask any question, even if it sounds ridiculously stupid!

Clear Skies

Next post coming soon

[lw24]

As promised, here it is:

Below, I will list some telescopes under £400 that I feel are good beginners scopes.

Refractors:

Skywatcher Evostar 120 (EQ3-2) - This is a great telescope on a decent mount. It's f/8.33 so it will have some Chromatic Abberation, but not much. This is the telescope I would have bought if I had a bit more money. Especially great on the Moon and the Planets. - £375

Skywatcher Startravel 120 (EQ3-2) - This is the telescope I have. It's f/5 so it will have some Chromatic Abberation, but a moon filter helps to get rid of it on the moon and planets. Due to the smaller focal length compared to the Evostar 120, it performs better on Deep Sky Objects (It is very nice on the Orion Nebula, Pleaides, Beehive Cluster, Double Cluster, and many more) - £312

Celestron Omni XLT 120 (CG-4) - Basically identical to the Evostar 120 at the top, but I have heard expecially good reviews about the Celestron XLT range of telescopes. - £395

Reflectors:

Skywatcher Explorer 150 (EQ3-2) - A really nice Newtonian Reflector on a good mount. This will be great on Deep Sky Objects, and pretty decent on the Moon and Planets. Nice and cheap compared to the others aswell. - £280

Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian - Really nice aperture for the money, and comes with a nice Dobsonian mount. Alot people like these, a few people don't. Will give you brilliant Deep Sky Object views, aswell as pretty decent Planetary and Moon views. - £285

There you go, see what you think.

It may seem obvious that Reflector is the way to go, but I just didn't want to bother with longer cooldown times, collimation and coma. I'm really happy with my Refractor, even knowing that I could of got a telescope with more aperture for cheaper.

Just go with what you think.

Please ask any questions you may have!

Clear Skies

[Chris E]

As promised, here it is:

Below, I will list some telescopes under £400 that I feel are good beginners scopes.

Refractors:

Skywatcher Evostar 120 (EQ3-2) - This is a great telescope on a decent mount. It's f/8.33 so it will have some Chromatic Abberation, but not much. This is the telescope I would have bought if I had a bit more money. Especially great on the Moon and the Planets. - £375

Skywatcher Startravel 120 (EQ3-2) - This is the telescope I have. It's f/5 so it will have some Chromatic Abberation, but a moon filter helps to get rid of it on the moon and planets. Due to the smaller focal length compared to the Evostar 120, it performs better on Deep Sky Objects (It is very nice on the Orion Nebula, Pleaides, Beehive Cluster, Double Cluster, and many more) - £312

Celestron Omni XLT 120 (CG-4) - Basically identical to the Evostar 120 at the top, but I have heard expecially good reviews about the Celestron XLT range of telescopes. - £395

Reflectors:

Skywatcher Explorer 150 (EQ3-2) - A really nice Newtonian Reflector on a good mount. This will be great on Deep Sky Objects, and pretty decent on the Moon and Planets. Nice and cheap compared to the others aswell. - £280

Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian - Really nice aperture for the money, and comes with a nice Dobsonian mount. Alot people like these, a few people don't. Will give you brilliant Deep Sky Object views, aswell as pretty decent Planetary and Moon views. - £285

There you go, see what you think.

It may seem obvious that Reflector is the way to go, but I just didn't want to bother with longer cooldown times, collimation and coma. I'm really happy with my Refractor, even knowing that I could of got a telescope with more aperture for cheaper.

Just go with what you think.

Please ask any questions you may have!

Clear Skies

Wow IW24, what a review, god now I'm lost, they all look great. So is a Reflector a "straight down the Tube scope" where as a Refractor uses internal mirrors and angles ???, also, Do I need a higher "F" number or lower in respect of F/5...F8.33 ??, or lower F as possible ?? PS, what is Collimation and Coma ???

Chris

[lw24]

You've got it a tad wrong

A reflector works by the light coming down the tube, hitting the primary mirror at the bottom of the tube, then bouncing back up the tube, hitting the secondary mirror near the top of the tube, which reflects the light into the eyepiece on the side.

Like this:

A refractor works by light hitting the primary lens at the front of the tube, focusing it so it meets at the bottom of the tube, where the eyepiece is.

Like this:

So by your definition, a Refractor is a straight down the tube scope, and a Reflector is the one with all the internal angles.

The f/ number entirely relies on what you want to look at. For example, if you want to look at the Moon and Planets, then I'd recommend f/8 or higher, whereas for Deep Sky Objects such as Open Clusters of stars, I'd recommend something around the f/6 or f/5 range.

Collimation is the process where you allign the primary and secondary mirrors in a reflector, so that the light path is perfect (or near enough). Here's a guide: Astro Babys Guide to Collimation

Coma is where stars towards the edge of the view in the eyepiece look a little like comets (it's really hard to notice though, don't base your decision on getting a different telescope because of this). It can get bad if your telescope is out of collimation. For more details, see this: Starizona's Telescope Basics - Collimation

No problems mate

Clear Skies

[Chris E]

You've got it a tad wrong

A reflector works by the light coming down the tube, hitting the primary mirror at the bottom of the tube, then bouncing back up the tube, hitting the secondary mirror near the top of the tube, which reflects the light into the eyepiece on the side.

Like this:

A refractor works by light hitting the primary lens at the front of the tube, focusing it so it meets at the bottom of the tube, where the eyepiece is.

Like this:

So by your definition, a Refractor is a straight down the tube scope, and a Reflector is the one with all the internal angles.

The f/ number entirely relies on what you want to look at. For example, if you want to look at the Moon and Planets, then I'd recommend f/8 or higher, whereas for Deep Sky Objects such as Open Clusters of stars, I'd recommend something around the f/6 or f/5 range.

Collimation is the process where you allign the primary and secondary mirrors in a reflector, so that the light path is perfect (or near enough). Here's a guide: Astro Babys Guide to Collimation

Coma is where stars towards the edge of the view in the eyepiece look a little like comets (it's really hard to notice though, don't base your decision on getting a different telescope because of this). It can get bad if your telescope is out of collimation. For more details, see this: Starizona's Telescope Basics - Collimation

No problems mate

Clear Skies

OMG IW24, Now I'm confused, I'm never gonna get that collimation right, I think i'll start Train spotting insted lol, it looks really difficult, do you have to do it everytime you use the scope then ???

[lw24]

Calm down mate, it's nothing to get in a worry about.

I was the same as you, thinking that collimation is just too much hassle, therefore the reason why I got a refractor.

Other people say that this isn't a reason for not getting a reflector, but I'm perfectly happy that I don't have to worry about it at all, my telescope is set and ready to go in minutes, no worries at all.

If you're the same as me, and want a basic, no hassle, easy to use telescope, then I'd advise buying the following:

Skywatcher Evostar 120 OTA Tube Only (You'll see why in a minute)

AZ4 Alt-Az Mount

Explanation:

The Evostar 120 Tube is a great telescope, it's a refractor, so you won't have to worry with cooldown times, collimation or coma. It will give brilliant images of the Moon and Planets, along with nice views of some of the brighter Deep Sky Objects (Orion Nebula etc).

The AZ4 Alt-Az Mount is a great mount, especially on the stainless steel legs. The Evostar 120 Tube should connect straight onto the mount with no problems, but I'd phone or email First Light Optics before you buy it.

The advantage with the AZ4 Alt-Az Mount, is that you don't have to bother 'Polar Aligning' the mount for it to work, you just set it up, put the telescope on it, and just point it where you want it. to move it, you just nudge it, or use the pan handle with a steady hand. It's easy.

Don't get into a pickle, it's not that complicated. I've gotten into astronomy, and I'm only 14...

P.S. The username is LW, not IW

No problems mate!

Clear Skies

[Probe]

The best beginners telescope is the Skywatcher Explorer 130

It includes a motor drive and is highly recommended by all, including Sky at Night!

Buy at FLO: Reflectors - Skywatcher Explorer 130

Cheers

[yeti monster]

Regarding collimation, it really isn't difficult! The first time I did it, I'd never even heard of collimation. I have a habit of taking things apart, so when I got my first scope, I had a look at how it all worked and just figured out what everything should be doing as I put it all back to gether again. The same went for polar alignment, I just figured that the polar axis should point at polaris, so set it up that way.

As you get used to it, and you start to drift toward the dark side, then collimation and polar alignment become rather obsessive, hence all the hoo-har about them, but quite honestly, for visual observations, these issues only need to be 'close'.

After a while, you'll find your 'eye' and that's when you'll be tweeking away at collimation screws etc. But by then you'll also have aperture fever, EPitis, gotoaphobia, cronic LP syndrome, darksky deficiency, cloudrage, insomnia, a sever caffine addiction, more kit than you'll ever use and no money!

Welcome to astronomy....

[brantuk]

Hi Chris - you've got some great help there from lw24. I'd only add a couple of general points.

All scopes can see everything to a greater or lesser degree. Go for largest aperture within budget when choosing a newtonian reflector. Light grab is important.

Refractors are great but demand good quality optics which are expensive - they're used a lot for photography (also very expensive).

Maks and Sct's have a compound arrangement of mirrors and lenses to achieve a longer focal length on a shorter tube. As such they're great for imaging planets and moon.

Choice of mount is important. Dobsonians are alt/az mounts and keep the cost down so you can get greater apertures. Not usually accurate enough for imaging outside the solar system. If you want to image dso's then an equatorial mount with RA tracking is a minimum requirement. Goto elecronics will consume budget which may be better spent on mount/optics/aperture.

It's a technical hobby that does sound challenging - but remember that once you've made a choice you'll only have the one scope to deal with - so it will be a lot easier once you've decided.

Hope that helps

(oh.... and alt/az mounts move up/down left/right - dead easy. EQ mounts move in RA and Dec and rely on polar alignment which reflects the way Earth spins, and the movement of stars round the pole star - great for learning the relationship between the heavens and Earth)

[Chris E]

Regarding collimation, it really isn't difficult! The first time I did it, I'd never even heard of collimation. I have a habit of taking things apart, so when I got my first scope, I had a look at how it all worked and just figured out what everything should be doing as I put it all back to gether again. The same went for polar alignment, I just figured that the polar axis should point at polaris, so set it up that way.

As you get used to it, and you start to drift toward the dark side, then collimation and polar alignment become rather obsessive, hence all the hoo-har about them, but quite honestly, for visual observations, these issues only need to be 'close'.

After a while, you'll find your 'eye' and that's when you'll be tweeking away at collimation screws etc. But by then you'll also have aperture fever, EPitis, gotoaphobia, cronic LP syndrome, darksky deficiency, cloudrage, insomnia, a sever caffine addiction, more kit than you'll ever use and no money!

Welcome to astronomy....

Polar Alignment ?? OMG I've gotta deal with that aswell, I've got a headache already lol, How do you do polar alignment , and why do you have to do this....

Chris...

Joking apart, the help I'm getting from you guys is fantastic, I think I need to visit the shop in Lincoln and ask him the questions face to face insted of getting on you guys nerves asking stupid questions, but keep the answers coming

Chris

[lw24]

You've only got to deal with Polar Alignment if you buy a German Equatorial Mount (EQ1, EQ2, EQ3-2, EQ5 etc). If you buy an Alt-Azimuth Mount (AZ1, AZ2, AZ3, AZ4 etc), you don't.

Clear Skies

[John]

Joking apart, the help I'm getting from you guys is fantastic, I think I need to visit the shop in Lincoln and ask him the questions face to face insted of getting on you guys nerves asking stupid questions, but keep the answers coming

Chris

Hi Chris,

I've just got a couple of bits of advice:

1. Keep it simple, to start with. Trying to find a setup that will enable imaging and visual observing introduces all sorts complexity that simply does not need to be there if you just decide to get to grips with visual observing to start with.

2. Ask as many questions as you like here - thats the purpose of the forum . Plus we are not trying to sell you anything wheras the man in the shop in Lincoln will be

There is almost certainly more expertise, experience and impartiallity on this forum than in any scope shop