sgl guru's help needed please

[thunderchild]

good morning all, over the past 2 month's i have had some really awesome views of Saturn,pleiades,and Orion's nebulae and of course the best moon ever but i am having great diffilculties spotting the following m101,m51 and m81.I have used the RA and DEC co-ordinates for these object's but still no joy i make sure i am polar align, start with a low power ep then work up to my high power but can not find them. I am not sure if it is me or i do not have the correct rig to observe these galaxies properly.

thank you in advance. stu:o

[John]

Hi Stu,

You scope is quite capable of seeing these objects although M51 and M101 will be a challenge if you have any light pollution to contend with.

Lowest power (say 32mm plossl) is the way to go to find them but I would advocate the star hopping approach with a red dot type finder rather than trying to use setting circles.

Once in the field of view, you can apply a bit more power to darken the background sky and increase the contrast of these faint objects. I find a 13mm eyepice useful for that purpose.

A good "red dot" type finder like a Telrad or the Rigel Quikfinder can help immensely as they actually project rings (rather than dots) with a defined apparent diameter. This helps the star hopping process loads.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I agree with John, star hopping is the way to go. I hardly ever use the setting circles on my scope. M101 is very tricky, as it has low surface brightness. M51 is easier, and M81 the easiest of the three (and it has M82 nearby). I spotted all three in the past with a 6" F/8 from a rather dark site. Be aware of the fact that all three have a much lower surface brightness than the Orion Nebula, which means that you will typically see a fuzzy blur, not the beautiful spiral structure. M51 can show a hint of an arm going towards the smaller of the two galaxies, but only under dark skies.

[thunderchild]

Hi John, will have look at getting a telrad or a rigel finder will speak to the guys at FLO, and yes i do have lp which is not bad but there is some, would there be any filters that would help aswell. Thank you for quick reply. stu

[John]

I've not found any filters that really help with galaxies to be honest. I just try and avoid light pollution (including the moon !) as much as possible and wait until objects are well above the horizon.

[glowjet]

Stu you have better and bigger optics than Charles Messier did who only used a 4.75" refractor, I would certainly not rely on your setting circles but on star hopping, a good star map or Stellarium should point you in the right direction, there is also Turn Left at Orion or even better still, and less expensive, The Illustrated guide to Astronomical Wonders. The Pinwheel, whirlpool and other galaxies will be best viewed from a dark site.

John.

[twotter]

M81 took me a while to find as it turned out to be a lot fainter than I thought it would be. Then I bought my trusty 32mm plossl and hey presto, there it was! My next EP is likely to be a 24mm Hyperion, which will take over from my 32mm as my 'search' EP.

I replaced the finderscope on my dob with a simple red dot finder. Can't say if telrad circles would be better but I don't have difficulty star hopping with a simple RDF dot.

[glowjet]

Sorry Thunderchild, I have only repeated what our other learned forum members have said, this is the joy of having those darn Cold Callers at your door when I was in the middle of typing a response to your question.

John.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

BTW, I like to use a BIG finder scope. My home-made 6"F/8 had a 10x50 made from a defunct pair of binoculars (snapped up for about 2.50 euros in todays money). Now I have an even bigger 16x70 built from a very cheap (50 euro) refractor, which was a big step up from the standard 6x30 supplied with the scope. The advantage of the RDF is that it is quick and easy, the disadvantage is you can only star-hop with naked-eye stars. I now use the 6x30 (which I might well replace with an RDF) to get to the general area, and then use the big finder to do the more precise star hopping. For objects like M51, you can often spot them in the finder, which is a big bonus.

Details on my finder can be found here

[thunderchild]

thank you all very much for your help,had a look at the telrad rdf

that will do nicely.I know i could rely on the members of this forum to help.:hello:icon_salut:

[MikeP]

Hi Stu,

Telrads are excellent but they are physically big. The Rigel Quickfinder works just as well and is much smaller.

Just thought I'd pass that on so you are aware.

Mike

[mdstuart]

M51 is "relatively" easy to find. Go for the bottom star or the plough as it is now. you then need to go right and up slightly for a bright star using your finder. 24 CVN.

M51

Same distance again to the right but down a bit are two fainter stars. These are shown in the link either side of the end of the green arrow.

Now the tough bit. Look up and right of the bottom of these two stars. You are looking for a bairly perceptable set of two blobs of dim grey light.

Of course if your finder turns everything upside down then you need to adjust my instructions accordingly. You will know when you have spotted the 24cvn star.

It must be very dark, no moon, no other lights, you must have been outside for at least 10 mins to let your eyes adjust..

Just keep trying you will find it..

Or come to SGL6 and I am sure many will help you find it..

Mark

[thunderchild]

Thanks Mike i will look a both of them as see which one would be best for my scope and Mark maybe you could lend me your px 250 then i would definately see them:p. joking aside i will take all advise and help on board.cheers stu

[Astro Imp]

Hi,

I have the same scope as you and definitely recommend the telrad, you will probably find you also need the dew shield for this as well.

[Vega]

I would say forget M101 (I haven't seen this even in my 10") and I know im pointing in exactly the right place becuase I've imaged it. M51 can be a tough one which is dramatically affected by sky conditions (best to avoid when the moon is up at any time).

M81 is your best bet being the brightest by far, but just like the law of sod, its the most difficult to locate as there are no clear star patterns nearby as a reference. Best to look online for star hopping guides on M81 or use 'Turn Left at Orion's' description on how to find it. It may take up quite a bit of your time, but worth it once you find them (you'll see 2 galaxies in the Field of View)

Matt

Matt

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I got M101 in 15x70 bins from a dark spot. In my C8 I could see hints of structure. All galaxies are severely affected by LP and the low surface brightness of M101 makes it difficult. However, do not give up on it (but M81 is easiest indeed).

[thunderchild]

cheers guys thats a great help,but the (THE BOSS)has asked how does the rdf actually works could one of you explain in simple terms for her. many thaks stu;)

[mdstuart]

Basically a red dot finder shows you a red dot on the sky where the telescope is pointing. So if you know an object is half way between two bright stars it helps you to point the scope accurately between the two stars.Fine if there are brigth stars near your object but not so hot if there are none! EG M81..A telrad is an enhancement it shows red circles on the sky to help you judge more accurately but again relies on stars you can see with your naked eye so its limited in that way.A finder shows stars to mag 8 or 9 but until you are used to it the extra stars can be offputting and if it shows an upside down view you need a degree is spacial awareness to convert the image you see to a chart..Its all fun and just takes experience and then you wonder what all the fuss was about.Mark

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

............. A finder shows stars to mag 8 or 9 but until you are used to it the extra stars can be offputting and if it shows an upside down view you need a degree is spacial awareness to convert the image you see to a chart..Its all fun and just takes experience and then you wonder what all the fuss was about.Mark

Very true. There are two ways around this: (1) turn the star chart upside-down (some software can also do this AFAIK); (2) put an erecting diagonal in the finder (easiest if it is a home-made one).

[thunderchild]

cheers guys i will let her read your replies when she gets home,hopefully will get the telrad and i'm looking at a 250px as a second scope with THE BOSSES permission. thanks stu

[mdstuart]

Get her approval for a right angled upright image finder. I have one and it helps with star hoping as michael mentioned. I can recommend the 250px...I have seen over 400 galaxies to date in mine in mag 5 skies...Mark

[Astro Imp]

Bare in mind that you can use the Telrad to get to the right area of the sky then refine your position with a finder and star chart.