Argh Reflector Refractor?

[Astorix]

Hey guys,

I am really finding it hard to choose my scope!

I went to my local astronomy shop yesterday and had a look around and browsed the scopes.

The guy who runs the store was really helpfull and knowledable. I said the kind of money i was looking to spend and what i wanted in the scope which is

1)easy to grab and go

2)sharp images

3)good all round oberving, Moon, planets and some nebula etc

and user friendly

After a chat i suggested the 130p. He said "very good scope, easy to use, lots of light gathering however, takes quite a while to cool down and be ready for observing outside, plus the image isnt that sharp. Also the barlow lense isnt that great quality.

Then he showed me the Skywatcher Evostar 90 Refractor. It looked really nice and was within my budget.

He said that this refractor was slightly easier to use, had much sharper and more contrasted images as well as having corrected images (Which was a bonus for me as i wanted to use my scope for terristrial use and wildlife as well as astronomy)

The refractor also comes with higher magnification which on the moon i assume would be great, especially as the images will be sharper.

I am not that fussed about galaxies so the appature does not bother me, as he also said that some of the bright ones will be visible in the refactor as well (Andromeda for example)

All of this is making me lean towards the refractor atm as i could see me getting more use out of it. I think this might be a good starting point for me which will give me lots of pleasure untill i can afford to upgrade to a better scope.

What do people think? all comments welcome!

[Demonperformer]

Any telescope that gathers photons rather than dust (ie gets used) is a good one.

A 90mm refractor will give you some good views.

Be prepared to change your views as to aperture as you get into the hobby!!

If you want to use it for terrestrial viewing as well, a reflector will not be any use.

If you want to use it for terrestrial viewing you will need to have an alt-az mount (not an EQ - or equatorial - one)

Check out FLO (our sponsor): Evostar - Skywatcher Evostar 90 (AZ3)

Hope this helps rather than further confuses.

[Astorix]

Hey thanks for the comment that really helps! also the Refractor looks a lot more in my bracket. 2 quick questions.

1)can the finderscope be upgraded to LED finder on the Evostar?

and 2) What nebula will be bright enough to se seen with the evo star?

[russ]

Hmm not sure about some of advice given from the shop. The 130P won't take long too cool because it's an open tube design and has small thin mirror. It may well take a couple of minutes longer than the 90 but not much in it. And also the sharpness bit worries me too. A well collimated 130P should give the 90 a run for its money on the planets and moon. The 90 will provide a nicer star image but that is a refractor trait. And both scopes will likely perform to a similar level at higher power. My 90 really starts to dim down past 160x. Which is probably the upper limit for the 130P too.

The 90 will have less maintenance issues, if any at all, which a huge bonus. Where as the 130P, being an f5, will need tip top collimation to perform alongside the 90. The 130 will outperform the 90 on the faint stuff as aperture wins but the difference won't be huge.

The 130P will be the more comfortable to use. The Evostar 90 is very long and quite front heavy. This places the eyepiece quite close to the ground when looking up and can mean some awkward observing positions. The 130P being a short tube newt will be very comfortable to use on an EQ2.

edit: Just seen DP's post and yes the AZ3 would be the much better choice with the Evostar 90. I'm trying to dream up ways of shifting the balance point on my 90, so that it is more rear end heavy.

[Doc]

I'm sorry but aperture rules and a 130mm scope will out perform a 90mm on every aspect of astronomy.

Knowing this hobby pretty well after a few nights you will say I need a bigger scope as the 90mm will not show enough detail.

[John]

Hey thanks for the comment that really helps! also the Refractor looks a lot more in my bracket. 2 quick questions.

1)can the finderscope be upgraded to LED finder on the Evostar?

and 2) What nebula will be bright enough to se seen with the evo star?

Yes you can change the finder scope to a red dot type.

On the nebulae, it depends how dark your skies are but quite a lot (and galaxies) will be visable although many will be pale smudges as the need large aperture scopes to be really well seen. The Orion Nebula is impressive and the Ring and Dumbell Nebulae are nice through small scopes. Dont forget open and globular star clusters as well !.

I would check out First Light Optics prices if I were you to see what sort of deal they are offering on that scope.

[Astorix]

hey guys those commetns really help. I like the fact that the scope requires little maitenence and also that it can have an upgrable LED finder. At the end of the day though if i want to use the scope for terrestrial as well i think the Evo star would be better.

As for price, i have checked FLO and am waiting for a callback to see if i can get a price match, however i quite like the idea of buying from my local shop so if i need anything or technical help it's very convinient.

Will let you know what decision i make

[pvaz]

Go with the one you think you'll use the most. In a few months, or years, if you find you like astronomy, you can always buy something bigger.

[russ]

I will say the Evostar 90 won't disappoint on the moon and planets. Had the 90 on the moon last night and it was giving amazing views that rivalled the 200P. So darn sharp. Saturn was nice too but the lack of light gathering power really takes its toll from 150x upwards. The view at 167x was incredibly good though.

Just as a thought, not sure if the shop suggested this. But the 150P dobsonian is only £12 more than the 130P EQ2 and is a much, much, much better telescope. It's a telescope that could last you a longtime. It's 150mm f8 optical tube is a classic lunar and planetary setup, giving pin sharp views and excellent contrast. The dob is also a steadier setup than the EQ2 mount. The 150P is proper telescope that will give astounding views of the moon and planets plus pleasing views of deepsky targets.

[Neo_uk]

One thing to bare in mind is what direction within the hobby you might take !.When i bought my first scope i asked the same question "What telescope should i buy ? " after a lot of advice and help from people on the forum i got the sky watcher 200mm explorer on a heq5 mount (great scope and mount).But after only about 1 hour i got very disappointed visually what i mean by that is when you see all the lovely images people take with great swirling dust lanes in the andromeda galaxy and the lovely plumes of nebulosity in m42 then you look at them visually there's just no comparison most messier objects just appear like faint smudges so i went down the slippery slope of imaging where you soon learn there's a a different scope for different applications.But there are lots of people who are very happy at visual observing but i find imaging more rewarding as i get a record of what i have been looking at in greater detail but thats just me.Have you considered buying second hand you might get a lot more scope for your money ! i have bought quite a few things from the forum and all have been in top notch condition.I hope this hasn't discouraged you in any way shape or form but i suppose what im trying to say is bare in mind that astronomy as a hobby has lots of different directions you can take and buying a scope that can be a good all rounder is difficult i.e aperture for deep sky objects is the way to go more light gathering power = more detail but tend to be around f5 which gives a wider field of view and a good planetary scope tends to be around f10 narrower field of view higher magnification which means some messier objects are spread over a large amount of the sky and wont fit in the field of view to view them in there entirety.So think about what you wish to gain from the hobby and make your decision from there.

Hope this has been of some help good luck in what ever you decide and enjoy the hobby !!!!!!

Regards chris

[John]

One thing to bare in mind is what direction within the hobby you might take !.....

This is a good point but ......... until you have at least dabbled with the hobby how on earth are you going even know what the various possibilities / directions are

I think if you try to take into consideration all the possibilities, you would never make a decision at all.

The reality is that, for many of us, equipment comes and goes a lot in this hobby as we experiment with this and that, which is why there is such a thriving used market in astro gear !.

[The Warthog]

I have a 6" reflector and a 4" refractor. Both give good planetary and lunar views, with a slight edge to the refractor. I generally suggest that a beginner consider nothing smaller than a 90mm refractor or a 5" reflector, and bigger is better, all things considered.

I use the refractor when I am planning to go out and look at the Moon or planets. When I am going to look at clusters or nebulae, I take the reflector. In any observing session I may look at the other type of object, more or less successfully.

I find the reflector more comfortable to use. What I mean is that with the ep at the top end of the tube, you can stand or sit to see through the scope without discomfort. Oddly, I find it a little easier to point, but this may be because my old joints don't move well, and the refractor is a longer beast to manage. Using the refractor on the tripods that are usually supplied, you will find yourself on your hands and knees looking at objects at the zenith, or even close to it. I built a very tall tripod (q.v.) to make it possible to sit comfortably when using the frac.

The reflector will need collimation periodically, but that is something you can learn, and after pulling out most of your hair the first few times, you'll get good at it. If it has a parabolic mirror, it should be as sharp as the refractor, with better resolution, and without false colour. You will experience a slight loss of contrast, but it isn't as big a deal as some people make it out to be.

On balance, If you are only getting one scope, I would go with the reflector, and see if you can extend your budget to a 6". Both Skywatcher and Celestron make very good ones.

Best of luck with your decision making.

[kniclander]

don't be put off by people saying you have to collimate a reflector - a 150mm dob will be F8 which means that precise collimation is unnecessary - basically, at below F5 collimation has to be pretty spot on to get the best views; at F8 collimation will be "spot on" even if it's quite a bit out (if that makes sense - think of it as a really large "sweet spot") - I often check my 150 dob to see if it needs collimating and it never does; my F4.8 10" dob needs a tweak prety regularly.

[Astorix]

Evening all:)

First off, let me just say thank you to everyone for commenting and posting back!

I know it has been a long decision and seems like i am being picky but it is my first scope and just want to make sure i get the right one!

I have been weighing up the pro's and con's over and over and have come to a conclusion based on two things.

First, i am a beginner, i have never owned a telescope before so anything i get will be better than nothing. Also as a beginner i think starting off with the Moon, planets, star clusters and some nebulae is more than enough for me. which i hear will be sharp, clear and good at high mag with the EvoStar.

Secondly the fact that the EvoStar requires no "Real" maintenance or collimation, which i think will be better as a beginner.

It is also a bit more in my budget!

And as Paulo said, if in a year or two i still really enjoy astronomy and want to take it further, i can upgrade from there.

With this in mind i am going with the Skywatcher EvoStar 90mm Refractor

Thanks again for all your help guys!

Secondly, i hear the

[Demonperformer]

Another thing to remember is that a lot of people, when they get a new "bigger" scope also keep a smaller one for more "extended" views than their new, more powerful one, can give.

[Astorix]

exactly plus like you said it will be a while before i upgrade so will start saving after i get this one!

[ollypenrice]

Logical choice in view of your requirements.

Olly