Which Scope & Other Questions

[TomS]

Hi,

I've spent months now trying to decide which scope to buy, and although I've learned a lot of valuable do's and don't's I still haven't taken the plunge and bought anything... I've tried asking on a couple of other forums and received lots of contradictory advice, so I'm looking for more opinions

I'm not exactly a newbie - I belonged to the South Downs Astronomical Society for a couple of years when I was young - but that was 25 years ago and my knowledge of telescopes was never great; I had a 3 inch refractor mounted on a camera tripod!

So now I have young children of my own and I'm looking to spend £300 or so on a telescope which will inspire them and re-inspire me. I've read the "Advice for New Astronomers" page, which was very useful.

I think I've narrowed it (if you can say that when there's still 5 things on the list) down to:

Revelation 10" Dobsonian ( from http://www.telescopehouse.co.uk )

SkyWatcher SKYLINER-250PX

SkyWatcher EXPLORER-200 (EQ5)

SkyWatcher STARTRAVEL-120 (EQ3-2)

SkyWatcher EVOSTAR-120 (EQ5)

I always found tracking down objects using my trusty Norton's Star Atlas to be rather fun, so should I actually care what the mounting is? There seems to be a huge price difference between an AZ-3 & EQ3-2 and between an EQ5 & HEQ5 - if you're not doing Astrophotography (which would be nice, but not essential) does it really matter?

Also, with three children under the age of 10, it needs to be something that can be set up quickly and doesn't require much mantainance - it would also help if it would fit in the back of a car. Is a Dobsonian mount portable enough to take out up onto the top of a hill?

Apologies for the length of this post, and many thanks for any advice you can give.

Cheers,

Tom

[geppetto]

Hello Tom and welcome to the forum

I suppose your going to get lots of opinions as to which scope is the best etc

and here's mine.

For simplicity of setting up and using visually, I think a DOB takes some beating.

The Revelation range are excellent value for money and Telescope House is a

reliable place to get one.

Main thing is transporting, the 10" and 12" are big beasts but worth the trouble for

their light gathering capacity.

Good look with your search and keep us informed along the way.

[Greg]

Hi Tom and welcome to the forum...

You could go for the big Dob lots of value for money...Quite a lumpy scope so not really transportable (Depends how far you have to transport it I suppose!!)

If it's moving from your garage to the patio then you should be fine...If it's going down flights of stairs to the garden or in the boot of a car to travel to a dark sky then i'd advise against it...

I personally wouldn't go for an EQ3 (I have one!!) for the bigger range of scopes..A minimum would be the EQ5 and you can motorise it at a later date if required..

if you're not doing Astrophotography (which would be nice, but not essential) does it really matter?

Yes it does...There is nothing more annoying than looking at a faint object you just get the object in view and the mount decides to get the wobbles!! You'll spend most of your time cussing instead of looking!! Put it this way .... Every time you adjust the focus your mount will wobble..

How about a nice s/h refractor on a EQ5?

Have a look on here...

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/

Greg

[GordonCopestake]

I'm begining to sound like a broken record but i love these scopes:

http://www.dhinds.co.uk/pages/fullProd.php?id=463

[russ]

I agree with Greg, the mount and scope combo definitely matter. Of the ones on the your list, avoid:

Explorer 200 and EQ5

Evostar 120 and EQ5

The EQ5 can't really handle either of those tubes satisfactorily. Aim for the HEQ5 if you fancy a bigger tube on an EQ mount. But looking at the scopes you've shortlisted i'm guessing you have £300-350 to play with? And the HEQ5 with Explorer 200 will cost £550

The 10" Revelation will serve you well but i wonder if you really need the 10". An 8" Revelation should do you just fine, and leave you spare money for some decent eyepieces. The difference in size is substantial, I used to lug a 10" dob everywhere....it got tiresome after a while. The 8" serves up some superb views of the planets and deepsky.

The Celestron SLT 102 that Gordon picked out just got a rave review in Astronomy Now. Very quick and easy to setup. The telescope is apparently very good. And the GOTO works a treat. Plus you can swap or add another telescope at a later date.

Regards

Russ

[FLO]

Hi Tom,

Welcome to Stargazers

I've spent months now trying to decide which scope to buy, and although I've learned a lot of valuable do's and don't's I still haven't taken the plunge and bought anything...

Classic ‘Paralysis Thru Analysis’

http://tinyurl.com/nyhgw

I think I've narrowed it (if you can say that when there's still 5 things on the list) down to:

Revelation 10" Dobsonian ( from http://www.telescopehouse.co.uk )

SkyWatcher SKYLINER-250PX

SkyWatcher EXPLORER-200 (EQ5)

SkyWatcher STARTRAVEL-120 (EQ3-2)

SkyWatcher EVOSTAR-120 (EQ5)

There are no lemons in that list Tom; you could draw any one of them from a hat and still get a scope that will deliver wonderful views.

If you're not doing Astrophotography (which would be nice, but not essential) does it really matter?

It matters less if you do regular ‘eye to eyepiece’ observing but a solid mount is still preferable. Whilst the Celestron SLT 102 is fantastic value and a great beginner/family scope, it is not the steadiest around - if this concerns you, stick to your original list. (Imagers tend to choose and recommend heavy/expensive mounts but don’t let that worry you too much).

Also, with three children under the age of 10, it needs to be something that can be set up quickly and doesn't require much mantainance.

A Dobsonian will be the simplest/quickest to setup and use. It will also deliver the most aperture per £ spent.

it would also help if it would fit in the back of a car.

Measure the width of your backseat and buy a tube to suit.

Is a Dobsonian mount portable enough to take out up onto the top of a hill?

A 6-8 inch Dob’ should be fine but as Greg and Russ have said, 10” is much bigger!

If pushed, I'd recommend a 6-8" Dobsonain or, for its GOTO and convenience, the Celestron SLT102.

Hope that helps,

Steve

[Greg]

Yip... I agree,

Hadn't mentioned the GOTO stuff but as Gordon and Russ have said ...the Celestron is a nice GOTO scope and within budget..

Rather than spend most of your evening trying to find stuff and giving up after an hour you can do the old "GOTO" and spend the evening doing a "Tour" of the night sky....And spend the night observing rather than finding.

Sometimes I miss my little Meade you know....

Tom...send the wife off to a day spa for some pampering..........Buy her some nice chocolates and flowers, cook her favourite meal....Then tell her you've ordered the 20" version of one of these..... 8)

http://www.meade.com/maxmount/index.html

Go on... Treat youself!! You deserve it....

I'll book the taxi now then......

Errr...Your wife doesn't know where I live does she!! :shock:

[TomS]

Wow! Thanks everyone for so many responses, so quickly!

I'm fearful that so many opinions may only worsen my 'analysis paralysis' , but I think I've got rid of two of my original shortlist (the EVOSTAR & EXPLORER) and only added one, so progress is being made!

I have a few more supplemental questions:

• 
  [li]I'm sure I remember reading somewhere long ago that a refractor of aperture X inches was about equivalent to a reflector of aperture 2X inches. Is this true?[/li]
  [li]Would a 10" Dobsonian be portable enough to cart around on my own, or is it a two person job? (I can't seem to find any pictures which give me a sense of scale for a 10" Dobsonian... just how big are they?)[/li]
  [li]Just how much of a problem is collimation? How often do you need to do it and how long does it take?[/li]
  [li]Would I actually see the structure of anything like M57 or M51 with a 4.75" refractor?[/li]
  [li]What's the downside of the shorter tube refractor? (I'm guessing there must be one!)[/li]
  

Cheers,

Tom

P.S. Greg - your avatar scared my children (and me too, if I'm honest!)

[GazOC]

I have a few more supplemental questions:

• 
  [li]I'm sure I remember reading somewhere long ago that a refractor of aperture X inches was about equivalent to a reflector of aperture 2X inches. Is this true?[/li]
  [li]Would a 10" Dobsonian be portable enough to cart around on my own, or is it a two person job? (I can't seem to find any pictures which give me a sense of scale for a 10" Dobsonian... just how big are they?)[/li]
  [li]Just how much of a problem is collimation? How often do you need to do it and how long does it take?[/li]
  [li]Would I actually see the structure of anything like M57 or M51 with a 4.75" refractor?[/li]
  [li]What's the downside of the shorter tube refractor? (I'm guessing there must be one!)[/li]
  

Cheers,

Tom

Hi Tom,

A refractor will have better contrast than a reflector the same size, it maybe makes an inch of difference, nothing like X2.

Unless you need to take the scope down stairs or across rought terrain the 10" Dob is very easy for one man to set up.

The problem with short refractors is that the light is bent so much to focus the light that some of the colours are focused at different points, leaving a smudge. In effect this means they are poor for high magnification and very poor for planets.

You'd stuggle to see much "structure", the 120mm Evostar is'nt a particulary good alround choice THB it's strenghts are mainly lunar and planetary.

Sorry for the typos, this is a bit rushed. I'm in work!!

Gaz

[Greg]

Tom,

Go with one of your initial choices ....

The 10" Dob......You won't be dissapointed. You can always put it on a beefy mount at a later date...

Greg

[GordonCopestake]

Those 10" revelations are excellent scopes for the money. Aperture is king always. You can always buy a small refractor if you want a more portable setup after.

[TomS]

Again, many thanks everyone for your help.

Got it narrowed down now to either the brute power of the Revelation 10" Dob, or the convenience and child-friendliness of the Celestron NexStar 102 (Gosh! Isn't this exciting  :?)

I'm afraid I still have a *few* more questions, and then I'll shut up and leave everyone alone:

• 
  [li]Does the Dob mount have to be on a level surface? My garden has a definite slope to it[/li]
  [li]If you're not using the GOTO feature, can you actually move the Celestron by hand, or can you only move it with the arrow buttons on the keypad (I think I'd find it a bit odd not being able to point the scope by hand)[/li]
  [li]Can you use the Celestron for astrophotography? Will it actually smoothly track the object?[/li]
  

And I'd like to congratulate everyone on the forum on their helpfulness and friendliness - I must admit I've been hooked since I found the forum, it's a great place

Cheers,

Tom

P.S. Found a couple of S/H contenders:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=7279

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=7286

[geppetto]

Tom

Cant help with the Celestron but the DOB needs to be as near level as you can.

Not because of any strange astro rules but if its not level, the scope will move in azimuth

down the slope so to speak and it will drive you mad by not stopping where you put it.

Agreed on the nice folk on this forum, I've only been here a short while but found it

comfortable and full of info and tips 8)

[Greg]

I'm afraid I still have a *few* more questions, and then I'll shut up and leave everyone alone:

:nono: :nono: I'm afraid we'll have none of that around here!!

Shutting up is not aloud....we want to know all the gory details about the scope you have purchased, what eyepieces you have and all your observing reports please.....

DO NOT be afraid to ask questions and interact with all the other stargazing loons on here....

I look forward to your first observing report please!

Greg

[The Warthog]

One that struck me as a possible conteneder: http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=7279 It's an 8", so a little easier to put in the car or carry into the garden, on an equatorial mount. I don't do astrophotography, but I find the equatorial mount good for anything I want to watch awhile, like a planet or the moon. For DSOs, I usually just look and move on; a dob would be fine for that sort of watching.

[GordonCopestake]

• 
  [li]Does the Dob mount have to be on a level surface? My garden has a definite slope to it[/li]
  [li]If you're not using the GOTO feature, can you actually move the Celestron by hand, or can you only move it with the arrow buttons on the keypad (I think I'd find it a bit odd not being able to point the scope by hand)[/li]
  [li]Can you use the Celestron for astrophotography? Will it actually smoothly track the object?[/li]
  

The dob base will work on a slope because it isn't aligned to anything. Just a simple point and look, a bit like a photo tripod. Thats assuming the slope isn't TOO steep hehe

Unfortunatly the SLT scopes can only be moved by the controller. This is a feature thats missing from them, manual slow motion controls.

The SLT isn't really designed for photography, but for things like webcamming the planets it will be fine. For long exposure photography though you really need an equitorial mount that can be polar aligned.

HTH

[TomS]

Okay, newbie question coming up...

Let's say, just hypothetically, that I ended up with a 10" Dob and the NexStar 102. How much would I be able to share between them in the way of eyepieces etc.?

[GordonCopestake]

Pretty much everything. Both have 2" focusers. The 10" dob is f/5 if remember right and the 102SLT is also f/5 i think so all eyepieces would work equally well in either scope. The magnification would obviously be different given the 2 focal lengths.

[Albireo380]

Hi TomS,

It has been fascinating to watch this thread and see the thought going into deciding on "which 'scope". Wrestling with the concept "what to get" is part of the fun. Any time I get a 'scope I have usually spent a couple of months agonising over it - and I just love the decision making process. Weighing up the pro's and con's of each 'scope. How EPs and other accessories may (or may not) fit the 'scope. What type of object the 'scope is best suited to. It is all part of the fun.

The 10" Revelation Dob is a great 'scope. A friend of mine has one and I have been very impressed with the views through it. I don't know the 102SLT, but plenty people here give it a good write up. The GOTO capability is also useful, if you get fed up "pushing" the Dob and just want a quick session looking at the moon or a planet.

So, >>> It is only money....(That's rich coming from a Scotsman) ... Get them both - You'll love 'em.

Tom

[FLO]

Also, the SLT102 with GOTO will make a great 'pointer' scope for the Dob.

[TomS]

I'm glad you find it fascinating... I was worried that it would be rather tedious for everyone watching my pathological inability to make a decision!

I think one of problems I had is that I was of the opinion that there would be such a thing as "the best scope for £350"... after some initial research I realised that what I actually needed was "the best scope for £350 to suit my particular set of needs" (child friendly, low maintenance, etc.)... and now I realise that even that is too optimistic and that really there is no such thing as *the* best scope - it all depends on what you're going to look at on a particular night, how much time you've got, whether you're going to drive somewhere to observe and so on.

The funny thing is that even this agonizingly indecisive thread misses out on much of the detail of my epic quest, such as the fact that I've been following an ebay auction for a Celestron C6 Schmidt-Cassegrain for several days, before finding out today that a S-G has less light grasp than the equivalent sized Newtonian (I dunno - in my tiny brain I just assumed lens + mirror would be better than just mirror) - *sigh*... Or the fact that I convinced myself that the Celeston NexStar was the answer - "Well, maybe the GOTO will be so much fun that it won't matter that the kids will miss out on the sense of achievement that comes from finding a Messier object using only a star atlas and some patience" and then I read the fantastic line in "Turn Left at Orion" (what a great book! I wish it had been around when I was a kid) which says, of GOTOs and CCDs "The frozen food section of your supermarket is a great place to pick up some salmon. But we wouldn't call it "going fishing""

So... I think the best thing for me to do is stop worrying about which one to get, and instead worry about which one to get first

[FLO]

... which says, of GOTOs ... "The frozen food section of your supermarket is a great place to pick up some salmon. But we wouldn't call it "going fishing"

It's witty, but ultimately its little more than opinionated nonsense

(No, I am not biased - I have a Dob and a 4" Mak with GOTO)

[GazOC]

Yep, there are a lot of "real-life" analogies made about GOTO/non GOTO scopes, most of them just don't hold water.

[OXO]

Goto or not too goto who cares so long as your looking at something Astronomical..

[GordonCopestake]

As i've said before (and many others have said before me) the best telescope is the one you use. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, pick one and use if for a bit. The second hand market thrives on sales and you will have no difficulty selling it when you want to move on. Most people here have a telescope for a few months and then move on. Theres no such thing as the "best" scope or we'de all have one