Frustrated Observer - What am i doing wrong?

[Spence]

I have been getting little time with the scope recently, as i am making some alterations to the observatory. - (This means the scope has been wrapped up in the other shed out of harms way.)

But for the last 2 nights i have dragged it out and set up on the decking, just so i can get some observing done. (With so few clear nights recently it would be a shame to miss those we do get!)

I have managed to get see Jupiter quite clearly with both the 25mm and 10mm EP's and managed to see 3 of the moons.

However, my frustration starts when looking for DSO's. - I figured (from posts on here) that M31 should be fairly easy to spot. I dropped in the 25mm EP, spud the scope round to the general direction, lined up with the RDF. (Checked with the Wixey that the elevation was correct) and... nothing. - Checked Stellarium to make sure i was in the right direction, even had sweep around but still nothing.

Am i being dumb, or am i just not destined to see such things???

I believe that my skies are fairly good for seeing... The milky way sweeps over as a nice 'smudge' with the naked eye and i can also see U1 Cas in Cassiopea which i believe is mag 4.8, but for the life of me i can't seem to find and DSO's. (I have tried averted vision and giving the scope a gentle tap).

Would my colour blindness be a factor in this? (If it is, then maybe i should consider another hobby!)

[John]

It's easy to spot - when you know where it is

Try a pair of 10x50 binoculars - sweep around until you see a fuzzy oval shape then you know where in the sky it is. That will help you find it with the scope. A red dot type finder makes things a lot easier I find ....

John

[mike.brightmore]

As John says binoculars are the best way to find your way around the sky. I started out with the book Turn Left at Orion which was an absolute Godsent. Before that I was a very frustrated observer but then it all began to fall into place and I realised what a fantastic hobby this is. Andromeda is a big galaxy. If we could see it with the naked eye it would be as wide as 6 full moons side by side. Looking at it through a telescope just zooms in on a small portion of it and it is always disappointing - we only see the hazy central core. Much better to start with some brighter smaller objects like globular clusters (M13, M2, M15 etc.), open clusters and double stars (Albireo, Almach etc).

I always find it easier to get to the Andromeda Galaxy by star hopping fom the Square of Pegasus (more like a big diamond at present). The left hand star is Alpheratz. Jump two stars to the left to Mirach (The next star along is a lovely coloured double - Almach). From Mirach hop up two stars then M31 is just up a bit more and to the right a bit.

If you go to the other side of the Pegasus square follow the dog-leg to Enif. Then just continue the line from Biham to Enif past Enif and you'll come to the globular M15. Below Enif is another bright star Sadalsud. Follow the line from Enif to Sadalsud about two thirds the way along you'll come to another glob - M2. All these are visible as little fuzzy blobs in binos but in a scope they are magnificent.

I would definitely recommend star hopping like this rather than scanning the general area where you think a DSO is. Keep on trying - its well worth it.

[Andrew]

Sounds like your skies are pretty good. You really need to star hop using a good star atlas (you can download these for free if you don't have one). That way when you look through the eyepiece you know exactly where you are looking. The problem with sweeping the sky is that when you can't see something you don't know why - is it in the field of view but too faint, or is it not in the field of view?

[Spence]

Many thanks for the replies... I will dig out the bins and use these for the next few sessions. Means i can take my time altering the Obs, and spend more time learning the sky.

Mike: - I will try star hoping from Pegasus... for some reason i have always approached from the Cassiopea side as i believed this may have been easier.

Andrew: - Now that i read it,it makes sense.. "or is it not in the field of view?"...

I am always happy to learn from the experience of others.

[Casus belli]

It gets a lot easier with experiance. After a few sessions you'll be surprised by how much you have learned. I also think that a pair of binoculars will help hugely

[jgs001]

I agree, a pair of Bins will make learning it all a lot easier.

I always used to find it by looking at the right half of the Cassie W. It almost points to M31.

[iamjulian]

For me, I start with the three bright stars in a line, below Cassiopeia, which point to the square of Pegasus. The second one from the left is β. Go up from there to the next bright star which is μ. Then go the same distance up again and you hit Andromeda.

[bish]

I swear by binoculars to help find my way around. As said already when you find it once it will be easy. I just count 2 stars along from the top right of the pegasus square and then 2 stars up, although under really dark skies you can see it with the naked eye.

[acey]

Spence - if you can see the Milky Way then your sky is certainly dark enough for DSO observing. All you need is to find them. It's hard at first when you don't know what they're meant to look like.

I suggest you start by finding some star clusters. The Pleiades (naked eye, which helps), then try some Cassiopeia clusters (e.g. NGC457).

You'll need a decent map - lots of options there. Finding a few clusters will teach you to use it. Then try galaxies M31 and M81.

Colour blindness makes no difference. I've heard it suggested that it might even enhance averted vision (which is what you use when looking at galaxies).

With your 10-inch, from your location, you'll be able to see hundreds of galaxies once you get the hang of it.

[mike-h]

Is your 254mm newtonian on a dobsonian mount? I was getting very frustrated trying to find DSOs then I put a setting circle around the base and bought an altitude guage. Now I can use Stellarium for the coordinates and move the scope there in seconds. Do a search on this forum for "DIY setting circles" for the instuctions. Takes an hour to make and saves much time and frustration.

Mike H

[Spence]

Mike-H: Yep its on a dob mount... I have a Wixey angle guage and am in the process of sorting out the setting circle for the base.

Think i'm going to spend a bit of time with the bins and a star atlas.

thanks to all for you replies... now as soon as the clouds depart i can get back out there!

[oceanheadted]

I spent a long time looking for it through my telescope but coudn't find it. Then found it within 5 minutes using 8x30 binoculars at a dark site. The Cassiopeia method works for me.

[pvaz]

To me the Pegasus method worked really well. I do it this way:

1) Find the square of Pegasus.

2) Count 2 bright stars left. Memorize that start!

3) Then 1 up! now imagine a straight line going through these too stars.

4) keep going up on that line, slowly, it should come up as a small patch of light. (It's a little past the second star up. The imaginary line will miss the second star up but will be absolutely straight on top of Andromeda. Instead of having to sweep the entire sky you only have a simple line now.)

The 1st time I tried to find M31 it toke me like 30 min with binos, I kept passing it, maybe because I was expecting Hubble like pictures at the time. Then I notice a fuzzy light somewhat dim ellipse with a brighter center. Now I know where it is, it takes me less then 30 seconds to star hop to it.

[acey]

That's exactly how I find it too - never fails.