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I find myself in a bit of a quandary...

Milamber

By Milamber
in The Astro Lounge

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Milamber

Milamber

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You see, here's the story. A big nasty Eco Company want to site 7 165m high wind turbines outside my back door almost and for the last two years we - as a village - have been fighting the proposals. My own personal complaint would be that, as an astronomer, they would completely ruin my enjoyment of the hobby because the proposed site is right on my Eastern horizon and seven of these 165m (yup, they are rather large as turbines go) beasties is a significant "blot".

I realised from the outset that, intellectually, that these things are a Good ThingTM and ordinarily I would be all for them. I do not see myself as a NIMBY - my conscience has always been a bit concerned about opposing them, yet there you are - would you want them there if you were in my position?

And so finally we get to the quandary. Today, the local anti-turbine people have hoisted a blimp over the proposed site to show just how far these turbines will be visible from. I have attached a piccie of said blimp in my Eastern view... the highest cloud I would estimate at about 40 degrees. See the problem? I can no longer in all fairness continue to maintain that they will mess up my astronomy... but how do I tell everyone that actually, I think they now might be a Good ThingTM after all? They will sit around 10 degrees... pretty much in the murk from here, and will actually have no impact at all on my imaging or viewing - even if they have aviation lights!

Arthur

PS - No, you cannot come and have a star party here and no, I am not selling :)

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Milamber

Milamber

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Far enough away to be low enough .... would add some interest to the Horizon widefield images...
So you are saying that waiting for 10 minutes for them clouds to come over was wasted then :)

And better than something chucking smoke, and thermal up into the atmosphere...

This is true - there's not alot in that direction bar the NAS Seething observatory (about 6 miles) and then Gt Yarmouth (about 20 miles). Big, belchy power stations (or even housing areas) would not be pretty! And on that note, the site proposed is as close to a built up area as would be allowed, so if the turbines go up - no houses... :)

Arthur

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Catanonia

Catanonia

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If people changed thier minds more often when presented with good arguments to the contry, then this world would be a happy place without all the fights.

No problem for you. They have shown that it will NOT be a problem and so have convinced you. Tell the others in your community that and stand by your convictions instead of lying to please people or save face.

Lovely view by the way.... Star party ????

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David Galvin

David Galvin

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My concern would be the air currents and turbulence that these may cause. Are they close enough to effect (affect?...answers on a post card please...) the seeing conditions? I would prefer these majestic beasts to a nuclear power station. :-)

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albedo0.39

albedo0.39

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I lived not far from Kettering prior to moving into Gloucs and we had quite a few installed over there (you can see them from the A14). Well, in almost no time at all, I went to see how they were close up. How quiet, how much space they occupied, how they worked and so on. Seen from a distance they are almost "other worldy" - especially in the orange light of a sunset.

I have grown to like them and now I'm working in a company where we control the things, have gotten to see an awful lot more ! Rest assured, all the really big turbines are going to be well offshore, so think of a system where the blades are 90+m and you're in another territory.

Are they better than nuclear ? Hmmmmm.... you're going to need an awful lot of them to make up 1 x Nuclear Power Station. Good luck with your quandry. !

Steve

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Astro_Baby

Astro_Baby

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And therein lies the problem of climate change and the reason I dont think its real and even if it were nothing will be done (apart from us all paying more tax) - everyone wants something done as long as its not them.

Thats not a pop at you - its true wherever you try to site turbines, or wave generators or just about anything else. Thats human nature.

I had a chap from the carbon trust recently on my doorstep - I asked him what kind of car he drove. Wouldn't you know it - an SUV - but of course he had perfectly good reasons for driving a gas guzzler while trying to convince me I shouldn't drive at all :)

Me - I'd go for the wind turbines. The option might be they could get planning permission for a waste incinerator or a centre for asylum seekers or who knows what.

At its very worst you could end up with a nuclear deep waste repository which is what some lucky soul will get once the nuclear industry starts producing more power stations. It amazes me that the Greens are all for Nukes when 20 years ago they were bleating about how horrid they were and we should all use wind and wave power - now wind and wave is a relaity they are whining they mess up the view. It was fun to watch the green on green incident outside the Eden Project a few months ago.

You could always tell the locals if they dont go for it their grandkids will be boiled alive, drowned or irradiated. Depends on whether THEY believe in climate change :)

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Matthew.Blake

Matthew.Blake

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You see, here's the story. A big nasty Eco Company want to site 7 165m high wind turbines outside my back door almost and for the last two years we - as a village - have been fighting the proposals. My own personal complaint would be that, as an astronomer, they would completely ruin my enjoyment of the hobby because the proposed site is right on my Eastern horizon and seven of these 165m (yup, they are rather large as turbines go) beasties is a significant "blot".

I realised from the outset that, intellectually, that these things are a Good ThingTM and ordinarily I would be all for them. I do not see myself as a NIMBY - my conscience has always been a bit concerned about opposing them, yet there you are - would you want them there if you were in my position?

And so finally we get to the quandary. Today, the local anti-turbine people have hoisted a blimp over the proposed site to show just how far these turbines will be visible from. I have attached a piccie of said blimp in my Eastern view... the highest cloud I would estimate at about 40 degrees. See the problem? I can no longer in all fairness continue to maintain that they will mess up my astronomy... but how do I tell everyone that actually, I think they now might be a Good ThingTM after all? They will sit around 10 degrees... pretty much in the murk from here, and will actually have no impact at all on my imaging or viewing - even if they have aviation lights!

Arthur

PS - No, you cannot come and have a star party here and no, I am not selling :)

Just tell people that you have considered everything and changed your mind, the big thing that tipped you over being the fact that their blimp pointed out how little effect the turbines would have!

Every time I see a group protesting against wind turbines on the news they always seem to fit a bit of a middle class stereotype, don't become part of it! Alternative energy sources need to be built somewhere: they shouldn't, however, just be build in areas where the local populace lack the money or knowledge to oppose them whilst those that have the money and knowledge benefit from them (I don't think anyone would disagree that the wealthier parts of the populace tend to use more energy).

Can you imagine a medieval Holland protesting against windmills, not quite 165m tall but at the time they would have been as big a change to the landscape as modern wind turbines.

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Astro_Baby

Astro_Baby

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Oooh gettin' political there - bit of Marxism creeping in :)

Every time I see a group protesting against wind turbines on the news they always seem to fit a bit of a middle class stereotype

You should have seen the Green on Green one where long haired scruffy greens were fighting it out outside the Eden Project (slightly more well to do greens. The opposing Greens claim the Eden Greens are despoiling nature by builing wind turbines and/or solar farms when they should be installing geo-thermal systems. :):):rolleyes:

For myself I live in a flat powered by a Biomass system which has yet to work reliably after 14 months by now I am wishing I hadn't felt so eco friendly and had carried on burning gas and electric. Pooh to the planet in 50 years - I want a hot bath now !!! :):):eek:

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saturn5

saturn5

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Thin end of the wedge I reckon - where will they site the next phase, closer to you?

Nothing wrong with being a NIMBY, why the heck would you want to be inconvenienced if it can be someone else's problem instead :) :)

As Caithness is a real hotspot for turbines i can realiably inform you that there must be 2km between the turbine and the nearest house.

Thats the law up here anyway,probably diffferent down the line but one things for sure,they are big.

Heres a pic somone did just to scale them alongside houses.

montage.jpg

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saturn5

saturn5

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You Dounerayalise just how big they are... are they fast breeders....

:):evil6::evil6:Nice one Peter.

Heres a link to some photos of them being unloaded at Wick.There are applications in for about 300 to be blotted over the county.

David Bellamy used to campaign against the mass planting of conifers in the Caithness flow country (bogs to you and me)Caithness happens to be the largest blanket bog area in Europe.

They used to drain the bogs and plant gazillions of trees for tax dodging purposes. but it got stopped.

Caithness.Org :: [ Photos ] Thumbnail Gallery : Causewaymire Turbines At Wick : 13 to 24 of 72 images

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Whippy

Whippy

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Me - I'd go for the wind turbines. The option might be they could get planning permission for a waste incinerator or a centre for asylum seekers or who knows what.

Oooh gettin' political there - bit of Marxism creeping in :)

Pots, Kettles. Careful AB :).

Anyways, we have a similar situation here as a power company is wanting to site some turbines near to one of the villages up this way. Personally, I don't see the problem but you do get the usual NIMBYism from the locals. Fact is they have to go somewhere and they do serve a real and useful purpose. The days of cheap oil and gas from the North Sea are almost over and as a country, we shouldn't be reliant on importing it so what option is there? This is the world we live in today, get used to it.

I'll be heading up to the Western highlands for a week in October and if you want to see a real eyesore, take a look at the mobile phone masts on top of the mountains. Horrible, but it's hard to argue against them.

Tony..

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Psychobilly

Psychobilly

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One of the ones in the photo I posted was on a corner of the road... during the dark when your driving along the road and you suddenly catch a glimpse of the end of a turbine blade in your headlights it was really hard to convince yourself that you didnt have to wait for a gap to drive through...

Bit like the old crazy golf "hole" ...

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barkis

barkis

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Every time we cross Shap Fell on the M6 motorway, we pass a clutch of these Wind Turbines. My Good lady always says the same thing. "Aren't they nice to look at.". Somehow, I cannot disagree. They are clean, quiet, and majestic. I don't know how many it would take to replace Sellafield Nuke station though. But again, I don't thing they add much to the National Grid. The good thing is it provides many jobs.

Ron.

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Mikea

Mikea

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They are clean, quiet, and majestic. I don't know how many it would take to replace Sellafield Nuke station though. But again, I don't thing they add much to the National Grid.

Ron.

According to DUKES 2009 Report, I'd estimate at least 1600 wind turbines working at max output to equal the generating capacity of Heysham 1 and 2 (Sellafield doesn't generate power any more). That means it would have to be windy continually (bit like someone I know... :)) so you should probably multiply that by a factor of 2 to account for non-windy spots. 112000 turbines across the country working at 50% total efficiency should be enough for all our needs :) Wind currently accounts for 1.7% of the total generating capacity in the UK, nuclear is a surprisingly low 13%.

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