RobertI Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Another vote for the 102ED-R or Starfield, really wonderful scopes and I’m very glad I stretched my budget to get FPL53 over FPL51. As for whether the 102ED is similar optical quality to the 102ED-R, I can’t see how it can be given that the scopes look very similar mechanically but the 102ED is £300 less - the difference must be in the glass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highburymark Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 I agree with everyone in this thread that the ED-R is the one to go for. A proven performer. But the question remains, FCD-100 (as specified on the Altair 100ED website) is the equivalent of FPL-53 in colour control. It’s not FPL-51, apparently. As far as the ‘SD’ glasses go, they’re all very close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis D Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) I've been happy with my Synta 127 Mak, although it does require some acclimation time. For $200 or less used, they're relative bargains compared to APOs. I've got a JOC (Explore Scientific/Bresser) 127 Mak now to compare to my Synta (Orion/Celestron) 127 Mak. First light on the moon showed no obvious differences between them. I could be happy with either, I think. Does anyone know of an observing test to see if the JOC's true 127mm of aperture makes all that much difference compared to the Synta's 118mm of true aperture due to its undersized primary mirror? I'm not sure I could ever visually distinguish a limiting magnitude difference or resolution difference due to a 9mm difference in aperture. Edited August 23 by Louis D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertI Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) I don’t want to divert the thread too much, but I think Altair have got their description wrong - Astrotech appear to do a 102ED F7 doublet with FCD-100 glass for $1200 - double the price of the Altair which claims the same glass. Astrotech also do a 102ED with FK61 glass for $650. I’d assume the Altair 102ED is more akin to the latter with FPL51 equivalent glass. Edited August 23 by RobertI 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerchap Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 I asked Altair about the glass in the 102ED, and this is their response: "Hi there, unfortunately we can't discuss glass price specifics for commercial reasons. If you would like to compare both models to decide which is best for you, we recommend visiting to our shop and comparing the two scopes side by side to check the colour correction. It is very close, but there is a discernible difference, especially if you are under 30 years old, because this is the approximate watershed where retinal degradation begins to affect perception of the far blue wavelengths. We have them all mounted for comparison and it's no trouble at all." This seems to me like they're saying that no, the 102ED does not contain FCD100. Surely if it did, that 'discernible difference' would be vanishingly small? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerchap Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 10 hours ago, RobertI said: I don’t want to divert the thread too much, but I think Altair have got their description wrong - Astrotech appear to do a 102ED F7 doublet with FCD-100 glass for $1200 - double the price of the Altair which claims the same glass. Astrotech also do a 102ED with FK61 glass for $650. I’d assume the Altair 102ED is more akin to the latter with FPL51 equivalent glass. I don't think this is thread diversion at all Robert, very helpful info. I agree though, it does seem unlikely that you'd be getting the good glass at that very low price point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 6 minutes ago, badgerchap said: I asked Altair about the glass in the 102ED, and this is their response: "... there is a discernible difference, especially if you are under 30 years old, because this is the approximate watershed where retinal degradation begins to affect perception of the far blue wavelengths. I would venture a guess that most clientele looking at these scopes are over 30. This is a bit of new knowledge for me, to add to the list of things about my eyesight that are going wrong with age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerchap Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 21 minutes ago, Paz said: I would venture a guess that most clientele looking at these scopes are over 30. This is a bit of new knowledge for me, to add to the list of things about my eyesight that are going wrong with age! Yes, I had the same thought - for a start when I was younger than 30 I didn't have £900 to spaff on telescopes! I do sometimes wish I could test my current eyes against my younger ones. They don't *feel* like they've degraded too much, but I'll wager they have! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertI Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, badgerchap said: unfortunately we can't discuss glass price specifics for commercial reasons. A bit of a weird statement considering they specify “FCD100” in the description - so they can state it but not discuss it? Weird. Thanks for the update though. Sounds like our theories might be correct. 🙂 I’m now thinking that retailers should list all the higher end scopes as “scopes for under 30 year olds”! 😆 Edited August 24 by RobertI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerchap Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 31 minutes ago, RobertI said: A bit of a weird statement considering they specify “FCD100” in the description - so they can state it but not discuss it? Weird. To be honest I think they misinterpreted my question as being "does the ED-R cost £300 more because the glass costs more". I've replied to get some clarity because yes, surely if they mention it on the site, giving me some confirmation isn't much of a stretch! I wish I'd done some more observing before turning 30 though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globular Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) I wouldn't mention price - retails get unhelpful if you quiz them on justifying their prices. Isn't the question something like: "Your website says the 102 ED has FCD-100 glass. Can you check that is correct - I've read elsewhere it might actually be FCD1 not FCD-100." Edited August 24 by globular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elp Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 I'm surprised they even respond to emails, certainly don't respond to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerchap Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 6 minutes ago, globular said: I wouldn't mention price - retails get unhelpful if you quiz them on justifying their prices. Isn't the question something like: "Your website says the 102 ED has FCD-100 glass. Can you check that is correct - I've read elsewhere it might actually be FCD1 not FCD-100." Yep, I've gone back to them with almost exactly that. Will post the response (if I get one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratlet Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Might be worth asking on their Facebook group. They are more responsive on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globular Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) Personally, though, even if they confirm it is FCD-100, I'd still go with the ED-R. It's not just the glass type that is important, but how well figured it is and what element(s) they pair it with that determines the overall quality of the view. And both scopes have been around long enough for users to determine which is better. Edited August 24 by globular 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerchap Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 5 minutes ago, Elp said: I'm surprised they even respond to emails, certainly don't respond to mine. I used their online portal rather than a direct email. Response was within a few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerchap Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 3 minutes ago, globular said: Personally, though, even if they confirm it is FCD-100, I'd still go with the ED-R. It's not just the glass type that is important, but how well figured it is and what element(s) they are pair it with that determines the overall quality of the view. And both scopes have been around long enough for users to determine which is better. Yes, I agree. I still want to get to the bottom of it though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elp Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 2 minutes ago, Ratlet said: Might be worth asking on their Facebook group. They are more responsive on it. A business if deciding to use email should monitor their traffic properly, check if mails are being sent and received in an appropriate time (if configured properly it's near instant), and check any junk folders, that way you don't miss any emails whatsoever, I know, it used to be one of my duties. I've had it with other suppliers too so it's not just an isolated incident, all I've been asking is simple questions which can be replied to instantly if they know their stock. I've used their website system too, nothing. Can't even get them on the phone half the time. Luckily there are other suppliers more responsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliumstar Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 hour ago, globular said: Personally, though, even if they confirm it is FCD-100, I'd still go with the ED-R. It's not just the glass type that is important, but how well figured it is and what element(s) they pair it with that determines the overall quality of the view. And both scopes have been around long enough for users to determine which is better. +1 for this. When you see them both in person it's pretty clear that ED-R version (and all other clones) is better built with a better focuser as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highburymark Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 13 hours ago, RobertI said: I don’t want to divert the thread too much, but I think Altair have got their description wrong - Astrotech appear to do a 102ED F7 doublet with FCD-100 glass for $1200 - double the price of the Altair which claims the same glass. Astrotech also do a 102ED with FK61 glass for $650. I’d assume the Altair 102ED is more akin to the latter with FPL51 equivalent glass. That clarifies things - thanks Robert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elp Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 You may find this thread useful: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/839938-altair-starwave-ascent-102edf7-vs-altair-starwave-102ed-rf7/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerchap Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 2 hours ago, Elp said: You may find this thread useful: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/839938-altair-starwave-ascent-102edf7-vs-altair-starwave-102ed-rf7/ I found this, but they came to a similar inconclusive result. I was hoping someone had experience of both scopes, but maybe that's unlikely! I am quite tempted to visit Altair a d try both out, as per their invitation, but Norwich is a way away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bivanus Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) Ohoooooo ! Road trip to the Lonely Mount...errrr...Norwich ! Sounds like an adventure...I wonder if there's some good restaurants around there too.Another spot marked for a visit whwn it will be posible. EDIT: Please go to have alook , our harts will be with you ! Edited August 24 by Bivanus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elp Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 13 minutes ago, badgerchap said: similar inconclusive result The comment by one of the posters sons pretty much confirmed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bivanus Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) 🤣🤣🤣 I think post #2 in that CN thread unfortunatelly clarifies the issue. Looks like you don't actually need to go BUT the bank manager will most definetly get sad. I like how this glass thing mirrors the steel controversy in custom made knives where you can find moonsteel tempered in snakeoil folded a thousand times in the fires of Mount Fuji....just to identify it as SS420 made in the Republic whose name we shall not utter here . And GOD FORBID you are one of the heathens using SS440c , that an evil and way to comon steel to forge the latest staight blade katana from Not-Japan 😁 EDIT: SS=Stainless Steel but 420 looks like it while being rather soft and 440c looks like it but holds a wicked edge.Sadly 440c is harder to work with , more expensive , and needs cryogenic temperin...Yeah , all in Not-Japan and their granma use 420 😅 And the katana is slightly curved - good curved blades are difficult to do so...staight it is in the land of Not-Japan Edited August 24 by Bivanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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