Dobsonian or Equatorial?

[Matthew.Blake]

Hi guys,

I'm looking for some advice on my next telescope. I currently have a 4.5" reflector, but it has very poor quality optics (£50 off ebay to make sure I would enjoy the hobby). I am now saving up for a proper telescope but am having difficulty choosing my goal! I want a telescope for both planetary and deep sky observing. I don't really have the space (or probably the money) to support more than one scope at home so I need something that can do both - though if I had to choose for it to excel at one over the other it would be deep sky. I'm not overly concerned with weight though if it fits in the back of a Toyota Yaris all the better. I live in Coventry, UK so if anyone is nearby and could let me have a play with the different types I'd surely buy them a pint. Failing that your advice on these forums would be most welcome.

I'm currently ummin and ahhing between saving up for an explorer 200p on an eq5 mount, a 250p on an eq 6 mount (no GOTO) or a motorised flextube 200px. All skywatcher as as far as I can tell they offer the best value for money for what I want.

The one point I am immobile on is GOTO, until I have learned the sky myself I want to stay away from GOTO to prevent laziness on my part. Beyond that I am torn between an equatorial or dobsonian mount and what size telescope to pay out for. Here are my thoughts on the two, could you please be as critical as you like of my ideas!

dobsonian:

I get more aperture for my money which can only be a good thing. I want to get a good look at Saturn with my own eye so want the magnification large apertures offer (currently all I have seen is a blurry dot with a line across it).

I am worried about pointing the thing at objects at high magnifications (I want to use it for both planetary and deep sky observing) on the basis that I don't think I can be precise enough just nudging it. I have seen some with motors that might circumvent this (specifically the skywatcher flextube).

I am worried that the eyepiece will swing between too low for me to access unless I dig a hole for myself and too high without a step. I will get this to an extent on an eq mount, but I can't conceive of it being as bad.

I am worried that I will have difficulty getting set up unless I have a decent amount of level ground - this is circumvented on the eq mount.

If I decide to try my hand at photography I will only be able to do short exposure shots. Though, currently I am focussing on visual observation.

equatorial:

I just think they look really really cool.

I am worried that I am spending way too much for something I don't really need.

They are better for photography should I decide to go that way.

Thanks for listening,

oh, and if, as I suspect, the Dobsonian vs Equatorial debate runs as deep as the white star vs defiant debate please don't hurt me.

[GazOC]

Hi Mathew, Welcome to SGL.

If you think you might want to get into photography or be able to put more than one scope on the mount then the EQ6 is the way to go. If are happy that the 8" Newt is likey to be the only scope you want and you are going to stick with visual use then the motorised Dob is the way to go IMHO.

Newts are a lot easier to use when they are Dob mounted rather than equatorialy mounted.

[Astro_Baby]

My own personal preference is for an EQ mount because I know nudging a dob and trying to track with it would drive me nuts.

With that said the latest dobs with driven mounts would kind of appeal to me.

I think if Sky-Watcher actually did do the big dob with a GoTo that would be my preference these days.

I'd not be too dismissive of GoTo though - I was at the start because, like you, I wanted to learn the sky but a number of things have tempered my view on that;

1) Where I live light pollution is terrible - on a good crisp night I can see ooohhh at least 4 stars......

2) the weather ever since I bought the 8" scope has been appalling

3) I have less time free than I had imagined

4) To use the scope I have to drive quite some distance to a dark sky site which further reduces the time available to look through it.

Because of these issues I came to the conclusion that learning the sky at the rate of clear nights I have had over the last year would take - ohhhh about 30 years.

In the end I realised if I were ever to see anything I'd HAVE to eat humble pie and buy a GoTo upgrade.

I have a Sky-Watcher 200 on an HEQ5 with GoTo. The whole lot including the power tank, eyepiece case, accessories case will all easily fit in a Toyota Aygo with the rear seats folded down.

I'd have liked to go up to a 10" but the weight of that plus an EQ6 to mount it on would have pushed my limits just a bit too far. As a single woman who has to lug the kit up 6 flights of stairs a 10" would have floored me. Even an 8" is quite a handful in terms of weight and bulk when its mated to an EQ mount.

The big pain with an EQ mount is it has to be rigged up once your out versus a Dob which you just plonk on the ground. I cant set up and polar align the HEQ5 in about 15 minutes though so its not too bad. Add another 5-10 mins for the GoTo alignment though and your in to about 30 mins all told.

Technically given where I live and the transport and set-up issues something like a Nextsar 8 would have been a wiser choice but I happen to like Newtonians.

All of that is what suits me - what suits you might well be very different.

[roundycat]

I don't normally offer answers to these sort of questions as my experience of different types of telescope is really limited. I currently have three refractors and an SCT but have used a Dob, for about five minutes before it drove me mad having to keep nudging it.

Like Astro Baby I would not avoid goto out of a perceived laziness. My first scope had goto but it did nothing to stop me from studying all kinds of star charts, books and planeterium programmes during daylight - which we have a lot of. I still roam the sky using a binocular when the imaging gear is doing it's thing. For rapid access to the bits you want to look at you cannot beat goto. Just remember you will not have a lot of time when push comes to shove, wind, rain, clouds, fog, light pollution, illness and God knows what else will all eat into your time.

You can always switch your goto off but you can't switch it on if you don't have it.

Don't be seduced by the look of astro gear, it will keep you skint.

Dennis

[dweller25]

If you choose a solid tube Dobsonian you can mount it later on an EQ mount - that way you can move from easy setup to full electronic tracking for photography and GOTO should you change your mind.

[Rusty Strings]

I have an EQ5 mount and have built an dob mount for my skwatcher explorer 200 and I have to say that the dob mkes the whole thing far easier and quicker to set up an use (cool down time excluded). The nudging is nothing like as annoying as I thought it might be. If I was seriously into imaging I'm sure I would be bigging up the EQ5, but since I built the dob, the EQ has been used once..

John

[mdstuart]

I have used both and I found myself getting frustrated with the way an eq results in tthe tube needing to be rotated, sometimes it will not reach one way so then you have to move it through 180 etc etc so in the end really did not benefit from the EQ.

Now I have a dob and its so much more logical to point and look...yet you do have to nudge but I use a 20mm eyepeice for most work and the sky moves relatively slowly at that magnification so nudging is no where near as big a downside as some of the other factors.

I think the key is are you going to take pictures..if you are EQ if not dob mount..

Mark

[Astro_Baby]

Don't be seduced by the look of astro gear, it will keep you skint.

i

Never a truer word - when I restarted I thought hmmmmm - nice little 5-6" reflector and a small(ish) mount. 18 months on I have an 8", HEQ5, GoTo, Nexstar 4SE as a grab and go, 2 Hyperions, 2 Panaviews, OIII filter, Barlow and I still want an UHC filter a Nexstar 6SE, A Televue Ethos blah blah blah - the list is endless.

[albedo0.39]

white star vs defiant

Oh come on now... you just know the winner is the WS... (don;t you ?)

[albedo0.39]

Well, I've had both EQ and now have a monster of a dob lurking in the garage.

I think the answer to the question could be more about convenience and your approach to astronomy.

For many (me) the joy is not imaging or the pure analytical side (even though I maintain a deep study of such matter) but the wonder of what I'm seeing and the simple fun of having a strong personal interaction with the scope.

Having a dob is a return to the unguided ways of old where observer and observed had to both work for a living as part of the bargain. I'm a techno-freak like the next man / woman but I would personally feel somewhat more detached from the experience if I sat in a chair, clicked a few buttons on my Mac to see my posh scope slew round in silent precision to display on my 60" LED screen what was in the heavens tonight.

Of course - I completely understand those that want to do that and in no way have anything whatsoever against it. It just doesn't suit me.

I think the Dob vs. EQ is little bit like the CD vs. Vinyl debate that raged years ago or the Valve vs. Transistor debate before that.

It's all about your own reference of what you enjoy and what you seek from this most fantastic hobby.

Whatever choice you make, you will know if it's "right" in no time at all.

Good luck and keep us posted

[nitram100]

In the UK i would buy an EQ Goto but in another country with good weather and skies i would have a dob, i like to make use of what little time i get under the stars here in the UK and i wouldn't be able to do that with a dob.

I agree that it is nice hunting down an object with a sky map and the feeling when you find it eventually is awesome, but i also enjoy the feeling of watching the GoTo swing to an object, then when it finally stops you step up to the eyepiece to view, it's quite a tense moment, well for me anyway

[Keithp]

Hi Matthew, I've only been doing this since Christmas and I started off with the Skywatcher 250px dob so I could move around easily and quickly. It gave me the best bang per buck IMHO at the time. Course before long you're tempted to stick a camera up at the eyepeice and you soon realise the limitations of the dob mount for imaging. I still had a couple of goes and got reasonable results though.

Since then I've used this forum to check up on what eq mounts to go for and in the main it was the EQ6. I decided to go for the Syntrek one on account of all advice is it has better drives than the standard EQ6 and if/when I want I could always either upgrade to GOTO or use my laptop to control it.

So now I have a good basis to progress with, 10" Newtonion on the EQ6 mount. I am well impressed with the mount and have now started imaging, albeit with a Fuji S5700. But that's the nature of the hobby, I now have in mind for later this year (when I've exhausted what I can achieve with the camera) either a dslr or ccd imager.

Regards

Keithp

[Wobbly Bob]

I have Refractors, SCT, GOTO mount and a 10" Dob. If one just wants to star hop and observe, then IMHO the Dob is a no brainer (apature is king) Dobs are so easy to set up, Move from storage to observing location, fit a finder, insert an eyepiece and one is ready for a session.

Observing fuzzy's does not requirer huge magnification, so the amount of TUBE NUDGING is minimal. I have to say after 10 years of using many Dob's of all sizes at star party's, TUBE NUDGING has never been a major issue.

[Matthew.Blake]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm now gravitating towards the Dobsonian models, potentially even without a motor drive as people seem to be happy with fine adjustment by hand.

One last question: I definately want to view Saturn at high magnification with my eye and have found with my current scope even the tiniest vibration sends it flying out of view (it doesn't help that my current mount appears to be constructed to hold nothing heavier than air), how practical is a good high magnification view of Saturn with a hand powered dob?

[Beulah]

The Dob is great for planetary observation, and the particular model I have (Hand Powered Skywatcher Skyliner Dob ) stays put and needs a firm "nudge" to shift it out of position. The rotating base if pretty stable and the tilt of the tube is smooth. Dobsonians can be heavy from 8" onwards.

You still get a little vibration, especially after moving the scope, and on higher mags, you'll have to learn to observe in small segments just after the scope has been nudged and the image settles, unless you have a wide field of view eyepiece.

I was told that the art of nudging comes second nature after a while, and I haven't read a truer statement.

[John]

I'm a confirmed dobsonian fan now but I have found that investing in eyepieces with a very wide field of view (Naglers and an Ethos) does help by reducing the amount of nudging that you have to do. I've even been able to use my Nagler 3.5mm eyepiece with my 12" dob to view Saturn at 435x on a good night last month and, while care was needed, tracking was possible - you almost end up doing it "sub-consciously" after a while.

John