A Dob That Won't Give Me a Hernia

[Second Time Around]

One thought is to combine an OOUK Dob base with another make of OTA.  This is what I posted recently about the OOUK bases.

"The bases are the best part of the OOUK Dobs.  They're made of aluminium so are lighter than steel or plywood let alone particleboard.  They also have a smaller footprint that enables them to be carried close to your body. 

Both of these features make them much easier to carry.  Indeed, I can go up to a 10 inch OOUK Dob, but only an 8 inch with Chinese makes.

The only mod I've done is adding a pair of kitchen door handles.

OOUK make these bases to order to fit any Dob, not just their own.  Expensive yes, but well worth it."

A second idea is to buy the cheapest Starsense Explorer in the range that costs £189 and retrofit it to whatever scope(s) you end up with.  I believe Ratlet here can provide a 3D printed adapter.

Edited April 3 by Second Time Around

[Louis D]

There's the Hubble Optics UP12 which weighs 32 pounds.  It's a bit of a work in progress if you read the forums, but it can be made to work.

There's also the Obsession 15" f/4 UC which has a 26 pound mirror box and comes with wheelbarrow handles to allow for moving it about fully assembled.  The weight at the handles is 8 pounds.  Their scopes cost more, but tend to not need any fussing to start using them.

I'm sure there's more lightweight Dob options out there, but those two pop to mind for me.

Check the classifieds.  Large Dobs don't tend to hold their value very well in the US, so used models can be bargains.  It might be the same in the UK.

[PeterStudz]

There are also alternatives to Starsense. I’ve never used Starsense so I’m not saying that this is better, but I can locate targets quick and easy using a phone app. For me it “just works” so what more do you want 😀.

The app I use is called PS Align Pro. I think I it cost £2.99. Within that there’s a PushTo feature and I’ve been using it for about 2 yrs. The phone is strapped to the OTA with a cheap tripod adapter. I sync to at least one known star/target (there’s no other setting up, no levelling etc) and off I go. It will then locate targets within a low power eyepiece. There’s also another app that does similar called AstroHopper. Although I’ve never used it I think it’s free. 

For “tracking” I made an EQ platform for about £85. So for less than £100 you have tracking & PushTo. A simple EQ platform is fine up to a 12” Dob. Any bigger than that and it might be more complicated. 
 

Edited April 3 by PeterStudz

[LukeTheNuke]

20 hours ago, Zermelo said:

Thanks, just added to my own strategy list

I'm pondering whether to suggest a 16 inch solid tube with trolley / wheelbarrow handles stored indoors, which Sarah is dead against currently, but I am willing to let her paint the OTA to help the scope add to the decor.

[LukeTheNuke]

26 minutes ago, PeterStudz said:

There are also alternatives to Starsense. I’ve never used Starsense so I’m not saying that this is better, but I can locate targets quick and easy using a phone app. For me it “just works” so what more do you want 😀.

The app I use is called PS Align Pro. I think I it cost £2.99. Within that there’s a PushTo feature and I’ve been using it for about 2 yrs. The phone is strapped to the OTA with a cheap tripod adapter. I sync to at least one known star/target (there’s no other setting up, no levelling etc) and off I go. It will then locate targets within a low power eyepiece. There’s also another app that does similar called AstroHopper. Although I’ve never used it I think it’s free. 

For “tracking” I made an EQ platform for about £85. So for less than £100 you have tracking & PushTo. A simple EQ platform is fine up to a 12” Dob. Any bigger than that and it might be more complicated. 
 

Thanks, Peter. I think I'm not that bothered about the Starsense technology itself, as I quite like finding stuff manually. Whether paying more for the Celestron is silly versus say the StellaLyra, if I'm not bothered about Starsense, I dunno. I suppose I'd try the Starsense, and maybe I should try PS Align Pro, you never know unless you try!

What I like about finding stuff manually though is it makes me get to know the sky better, and I quite like that aspect. I dunno why. I am terrible at directions when driving my car! I once got lost driving to the garage down the road. Poor Sarah had just sent me out to get milk or something for our guests! They couldn't believe I got lost going to the garage down the road!

[Stu]

What you clearly need is a 600mm! 🤣🤣

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=213216

[LukeTheNuke]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

What you clearly need is a 600mm! 🤣🤣

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=213216

Am I reading this ad correctly - the finder scope is 150 mm? Really? Wowsers! And I'd need to change my car to a transit van. I suppose a bigger finder makes sense, as you can see fainter stuff with the scope?

150mm mirror box mounted Bresser finder scope

Oh, and I suppose a 50mm finder might look a bit silly on a 24 inch dob.

[LukeTheNuke]

I think I've found the answer!

[bosun21]

4 hours ago, LukeTheNuke said:

And part of my thinking is that having owned a lot of different aperture scopes, the 12 inch solid tube Skywatcher was a gem, and I wish I hadn't sold it. Now with the Celestron StarSense, and Mr Spock's glowing report of the StellaLyra, I wonder if there is the chance to correct my mistake.

Having owned both the 8" and 12" solid tube Stella Lyra dobsonians I can also attest to the quality of the mirror(s) in both these scopes.

[LukeTheNuke]

I'm hoping to have the funds by the end of May, touch wood. I'm still not sure what to do.

I'm currently thinking, maybe a 12 inch solid tube dob that I can easily set up on my own, and a 16 inch that can easily be set up by two people, if needs be.

Maybe go all-in on StellaLyra, with the 12" solid tube and 16" truss? Though I am also still tempted by the Celestron StarSense for the 12 inch scope, and am warming to the idea of actually making use of the StarSense feature. Some folks seem to find it a joy to use, and it potentially would be the scope I use the most.

One thing for the StellaLyra scopes is they look good bang for buck. Those sizes come with right-angle finders and dual speed focusers, for example. Though we do have a good spare focuser. And FLO's customer service is great.

I'm feeling more positive about GSO mirrors after reading multiple positive comments.

I thought I'd ask ChatGPT as well, and have a bit of fun asking! My convo with the AI is below. The strength and IQ thing is just me being a bit silly and wanting the AI to not go lighter than I'm fine with, and the IQ was a silly reference to a joke I made in the lounge. I like the idea that I should consider buying the 13 mm Ethos! 😁

-----

LukeTheNuke:
What is the best lightweight telescope option brand and model with the largest aperture that has no single part that weighs more than 25 kg and that can easily be moved and set up by one adult male of above average strength and intelligence, with an IQ of 404? PS make it a big one.

ChatGPT:
The best lightweight telescope option with the largest aperture that can be easily moved and set up by one person would be the Sky-Watcher S11530 Maksutov-Cassegrain Telescope. With a 127mm aperture and weighing just under 9 kg, this telescope is portable and easy to set up solo. It also offers excellent image quality and is a popular choice among amateur astronomers.

LukeTheNuke:
What's the lightest 16 inch commercially available telescope?

ChatGPT:
The lightest commercially available 16-inch telescope is likely the Meade LX65 16" ACF telescope, which weighs around 135 pounds without the mount.

LukeTheNuke:
What's the lightest 16 inch dobsonian telescope on the market?

ChatGPT:
One of the lightest 16 inch Dobsonian telescopes currently available on the market is the Sky-Watcher Flextube 16" Collapsible Dobsonian Telescope. This telescope features a collapsible design that makes it easier to transport and set up compared to traditional solid-tube Dobsonians. It weighs approximately 93 lbs (42 kg), making it relatively lightweight for its size.

LukeTheNuke:
Does that weight include the base, or is it the OTA only? It makes a difference to my back. PS I already had one of those [sigh].

ChatGPT:
The weight typically refers to the Optical Tube Assembly (OTA) only and does not include the base. It's important to consider the total weight when carrying or transporting the equipment to avoid strain on your back.

LukeTheNuke:
Tell me about it! That's why I sold the Sky-Watcher Flextube 16" Collapsible Dobsonian Telescope. Are you sure there isn't a lighter one than that? Do you work for Synta?

ChatGPT:
I'm sorry, I don't work for Synta or any telescope company. The Sky-Watcher Flextube 16" Collapsible Dobsonian Telescope is definitely a heavy and bulky telescope, which is why you may have decided to sell it. There are definitely lighter options available, such as smaller Dobsonian telescopes or other types of telescopes like refractors or compound telescopes. It really depends on your specific needs and preferences.

LukeTheNuke:
What's the best refractor for me to get that weighs less than a Sky-Watcher Flextube 16" Collapsible Dobsonian Telescope but will give equivalent views of deep sky objects? PS are you a frac or dob type of person?

ChatGPT:
If you are looking for a refractor telescope that weighs less than a Sky-Watcher Flextube 16" Collapsible Dobsonian Telescope but can still provide equivalent views of deep sky objects, you may want to consider the Takahashi TSA-120 or the William Optics FLT 132. Both of these refractors are known for their high-quality optics and ability to provide crisp, clear views of celestial objects.

As for whether I am a refractor or Dobsonian type of person, I am an AI digital assistant and do not have personal preferences. It ultimately comes down to your own preferences and priorities in terms of portability, ease of use, and desired viewing experience. Both refractors and Dobsonian telescopes have their own strengths and limitations, so it's important to consider what factors are most important to you when making a decision.

LukeTheNuke:
Well I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want: the largest dob that won't give me a hernia. My budget is about £5K. I currently have a 10 inch GSO dob, which I find very light. I'm looking for something bigger, but not as heavy as the Sky-Watcher Flextube 16" Collapsible Dobsonian Telescope. What do you suggest? I know you're an AI digital assistant and do not have personal preferences, but if you had to buy a telescope today, for up to £5K, that wouldn't give you a hernia if you were a human (please use your imagination), what would you get?

ChatGPT:
If I were to recommend a telescope within your budget that is larger than your current 10 inch dob without being too heavy, I would suggest looking into the Orion SkyQuest XT12i IntelliScope Truss Dobsonian Telescope. This telescope has a 12 inch aperture which will provide you with increased light gathering power and better viewing capabilities compared to your current 10 inch dob. The truss tube design also helps to reduce the overall weight of the telescope, making it easier to transport and set up compared to the Sky-Watcher Flextube 16" Collapsible Dobsonian Telescope. This telescope is also within your budget range and should be a great option for upgrading to a larger dobsonian telescope without the risk of giving yourself a hernia.

LukeTheNuke:
What would be the biggest option for upgrading the Orion SkyQuest XT12i IntelliScope Truss Dobsonian Telescope that would be without the risk of giving myself a hernia? That one sounds like a winner!

ChatGPT:
One possible option to upgrade the Orion SkyQuest XT12i IntelliScope Truss Dobsonian Telescope without the risk of straining yourself would be to invest in a motorized equatorial tracking mount. This would allow you to automatically track celestial objects as they move across the night sky, eliminating the need for manual adjustments and reducing the physical strain of constantly moving and adjusting the telescope. Additionally, you could consider upgrading the eyepieces and accessories to enhance your viewing experience without adding significant weight to the telescope.

LukeTheNuke:
Ah, cool. I mostly use the Tele Vue 21 mm Ethos eyepiece. What eyepiece should I upgrade it to that will make the Orion SkyQuest XT12i IntelliScope Truss Dobsonian Telescope really sing?

ChatGPT:
If you're looking to upgrade from the Tele Vue 21mm Ethos eyepiece for your Orion SkyQuest XT12i IntelliScope Truss Dobsonian Telescope, you may want to consider investing in a higher quality eyepiece that can provide better clarity and resolution. Some popular options that many astronomers recommend for this telescope are the Tele Vue 13mm Ethos eyepiece, the Explore Scientific 14mm 100-degree Series eyepiece, or the Pentax XW 14mm eyepiece. These eyepieces are known for their excellent performance and can help enhance your viewing experience with your telescope. Ultimately, the best choice will depend on your personal preferences and budget.

Edited April 28 by LukeTheNuke

[Louis D]

ChatGPT seems skewed toward commercial offerings.  It never once mentioned Hubble Optics, Obsession, or any of the European custom Dob makers.

[Piero]

Last weekend I fitted the original wheelbarrow handles to my redesigned 12" F6 dob. Now both telescopes are ready to be wheeled out from my garage with easy.

 

[John_D]

There are a few ingenious and well made carriages in this thread but I'm slightly surprised that nobody's laid down any rail tracks yet and moved the telescope in and out of the shed that way. 

I'm thinking of this sort of thing:

Bonus points if it's hauled by a steam locomotive  

[LukeTheNuke]

Thanks, Piero, for the piccies of scopes on wheels. I'm going to have a think if I can do something with wheels. I had been thinking that they won't work for me at the mo, but perhaps I can figure something out. The shed, which is where we store our 10 inch dob, has an awkward lip and might be too shallow for a ramp to get over it, and anyway, it's then onto a slate chippings path, which I think the wheels are not going to like.

And if we store the big dob indoors, it's got to go in the cupboard under the stairs, so it has to be not a solid tube. And currently I don't think a ramp works too well through the back door either. I'll have a ponder whether we can make either storage option more wheel-friendly. I did see someone post a piccy of their new 12 inch dob just with castor wheels screwed directly into the dob base, which looked pretty neat.

John, I like your ambitious thinking outside the (mirror) box, I had a crazy idea too. I like my RC cars, and I must admit, I wondered if I could get something like this to tow the telescope if I can get it on wheels:

 

Edited April 26 by LukeTheNuke

[LukeTheNuke]

Gosh, I keep going around in circles. I've been looking at Geoptik and Taurus dobs over the weekend, and the Explore Scientific. Partly against Geoptik and Taurus is that I don't think the 16 inches and upwards are on sale anywhere in the UK.

I now feel pulled back to the Orion Optics UK VX14. It's a touch over £3K with the 1/10 upgrade and variable brake. Then I see what some 1/10 VX14's have sold for used, and it's quite sobering. I'm minded to wait for a used VX14.

I think the VX14 can replace our GSO 10 inch. I think the weight and convenience is fine and about as big as it gets for a low hassle dob for me. But it might not work very well for taking to star parties. That's the snag right now. If we waited for a used one, we could also get, say, the Explore Scientific Ultra Light 16. But then it's only two more inches of aperture. Will I be bothered to set it up at home if there's the VX14 ready to go? And close to £2K is a lot it the 16 will basically only be used at star parties.

Sarah thinks maybe go 12 inch and 16, but I think, it would be fab if 14 inches was the scope we use a lot. I think I might gain more from having a 14 than I would having a 12 and 16, as the 12 would likely get used far more than the 16. So I'm thinking viewing at 14 inches by default is better than 12 inches by default with the odd bit of 16.

Another option is to delay getting the bigger scope, and to think about an 18 or 20 inch down the line. A 14 to me may pair well with an 18 or 20. We are hoping to move house in the not too distant future, so accommodating a big scope might work better then, be that having an obsy or catering better for ramps/getting a bigger shed then.

It's the star party aspect that's the headache at the moment. We could take our Edge 8. I am due to switch car soon (thanks to the upcoming tidy windfall, touch wood) and if I got an estate car, that could make the VX14 doable for star parties. But I'm not sure I want my stargazing hobby to influence which car I get. Though at the mo, an estate is one of my two main car options anyway (I've been drooling over the Audi A6 Avant/Allroad, versus getting the same again - a VW Touareg, which I don't think would quite fit the VX14 in). Hmmmm. I wish I could hurry up and decide!

Edited April 28 by LukeTheNuke

[JeremyS]

At the recent BAA weekend FLO had one of these on their stand: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-16-f45-dobsonian.html

they had it on a purpose built telescope cart. Looked a super setup 

[LukeTheNuke]

Thanks, Jeremy.

Yeah, maybe I should think about wheels again. Wheels don't work so well currently for us. Though that said, thinking about it, we need to redo the area outside the back door anyway, and we could get that done in time for the new season. We could consider redoing it bearing ramps in mind. We are hoping to move in the not too distant future, but that is probably 3+ years off.

And Sarah says she'd be okay to get rid of the slate chippings path that leads up to the shed, which is the quicker fix, if we can fit the dob in the shed.

I'll go chat to Sarah about wheeled options. Blimey, I hope we don't end up buying the SW 400P FlexTube Goto we sold! What an own goal! 😁

[Louis D]

A 77 pound mirror box in that StellaLyra 16" f/4.5 Dobsonian is quite a lot to solo hoist into its rocker base.  I can barely manhandle the 62 pound mirror box of my ~30 year old 15" Tectron into its base.

[John]

I remember seeing a Meade Lightbridge 16" at a show somewhere and thinking that there is no way that I could manage that on my own and not having a roll-off shed or similar to keep it in. The StellaLyra 16 will be a similar size and weight I would think. Made by GSO as well.

I bought a Lightbridge 12 in the end but that was too heavy for me as well so had to go. Eventually I put together my 12 inch Orion Optics based F/5.3 dob on a custom base which weighed the same as most chinese 10 inch dobs and that was a breakthough for me. As quick and easy to set up as my refractors and capable of going a lot deeper. 

I did wonder about an Orion Optics 14 inch at times but could not convince myself that it would get the use that it deserved. 

We have an 18 inch NGT newtonian at my society observatory which I can use and that is in a roll-off shed. That will be satisfying my aperture cravings from now on I think.

 

[LukeTheNuke]

I think a big question for me is whether I will find the VX14 easy enough to move, even without wheels, for it to still be a scope I plonk out as readily as I do the GSO 10 inch.

One of the VX12s would be a safe bet, I think. I'm trying to find reviews on the VX14 to see if folks are commenting on how easy they find it to move.

I don't recall finding my SkyWatcher 12 solid tube that much of a hassle to plonk outside. I miss that scope! So I am wondering if the VX14 would be just dandy for me.

Sarah said I should focus on what is the most important thing. And to me, that's a low hassle dob that I plonk outside on the off-chance it might be clear. That's where the GSO 10 sings. I don't think it's the best optically, hence my slight nervousness about going for another GSO mirror. But that's just me, and not a very large sample size!

I do think the OOUK is likely to pretty much guarantee a good mirror.

There is the wheels option to consider, though our shed's door opening is only 169.5 cm tall, so for a big scope, if it's going in the shed, I think a 16 inch truss design has to be put away rather than left out. That then makes it a bit of a hassle for me to use, rather than just wheeling it out already set up. And I do like that solid tubes are less prone to dew.

So I think wheels are an option for a 16 inch dob, if going the two scopes route. But I don't think it works for me as the only scope. I want to replace the GSO 10. We have great eyepieces, but not the best GSO mirror. It's not terrible, but I'd say it's the weakest optics of the dobs I've had.

If the dob is stored indoors, Sarah wants a non-solid tube that goes under the stairs, so again, it becomes more hassle.

The low hassle of the GSO 10 inch was a very strong plus for me. I observed more because of it, no question. I didn't get too angry with the clouds, because I invested next to no effort to plonk the scope out. If the VX14 can do this for me, it could be the winner. Wheels are cool, but I might not need them for the VX14 anyway. I feel I need to find more reviews and comments on it.

I think a VX12 is a good option too, and although a 14 has more light grasp, I'm sure I'd appreciate the even lower weight of the 12. Sarah thinks, if going for a 12, to go the faster one, as it's easier to take to star parties.

So the other question is what we do about star parties. This matters to me less than to Sarah, as I observe more than Sarah at home, so the vast bulk of my viewing is at home. Though she's okay about the idea of taking the Edge 8 to star parties. She also likes the social aspect and looking through other scopes too. One idea here might be to get a lightweight fast 12 inch reflector that we can use on a dob base that I could do some lunar imaging with on an NEQ6. Maybe even an Orion Optics 12 F4. Perhaps if we could pick one up second hand.

I do think I would enjoy using a fast 12 for some lunar imaging on the NEQ6. I have been thinking about getting back to imaging in some form, especially if I can find an acceptable camera for up to about £300. I'm not sure where cameras are at these days. I might be getting a decent lappy unrelated to stargazing, so I don't have to pay out separately for that.

If we got the VX14 second-hand, our budget would let us get, say, the Explore Scientific Ultra Light 16 inch as well, which I believe is a GSO mirror. The heaviest single part is the mirror box, at 23.8 kg. I think I might be okay to handle that one on my own. The StellaLyra, perhaps not. Though maybe on wheels.

There is the question, that if I had a VX14 and Explore Scientific 16 (or StellaLyra 16 on wheels somehow), would the 16 come out to play enough at home?
 
Thanks all for the thoughts. And I hope I'm not driving you too nuts with my waffle, going around in circles, and indecision! I'm gonna go look for some more VX14 comments.

Edited April 28 by LukeTheNuke

[LukeTheNuke]

Gosh, I think Sarah and I have come to some sort of a decision at last!

I think the fact that I kept on going around in circles shows that there are a number of different options that all have something to offer. If we ended up with a VX12, that sounds nice. Or a VX12L. Or VX14. Or StellaLyra 12, or 16. Or an Explore Scientific Ultra Light, Taurus, or Geoptik. These all sound good.

The plan is to set aside £3K, which is about how much a SkyWatcher 400P Goto costs now. We sold our 400P Goto and didn't reinvest the money (it went on our new passion of board games!). I like the idea of restoring the value of that loss to the astro collection!

And we plan to look for value, either from the used market, or from special offers new. E.g. today I could have got a Celestron StarSense Explorer 10 new for £680 delivered. That seems a decent deal, and I'd be tempted to replace the GSO 10 with it.

Maybe a good price on a used Lunt solar scope would tempt us. That could work well for Sarah - she might get more use from that than from, say, a 16 inch dob.

I am prone to aperture fever, but a 10 inch scope is actually pretty powerful anyway, and we can keep the GSO 10 if something completely different makes sense. I've been using it for a decade, so it's not that terrible!

If we see something that could benefit from wheels, then we'll look at that. I think we can be flexible, and see if something tempts us. I'm quite excited now, not knowing what the hell we'll get, but, touch wood, it will be something that boosts our collection.

If we go used and somehow end up with enough money left for an Ethos 13, we might fancy adding one of those.

Thanks again for the thoughts. We feel better informed on the various options now, and I think it's helped to make me realise that there are multiple ways to go, which all have some appeal and could work, so why not look for value, when we can be flexible?

Edited April 29 by LukeTheNuke

[Louis D]

Too bad you're not in the US.  I just checked CN classifieds for Dobs under $3750 (roughly your budget), and I found loads options well below that price point including many custom built brands.  Hopefully you can find similar deals on your side of the pond.

[LukeTheNuke]

9 hours ago, Louis D said:

Too bad you're not in the US.  I just checked CN classifieds for Dobs under $3750 (roughly your budget), and I found loads options well below that price point including many custom built brands.  Hopefully you can find similar deals on your side of the pond.

Thanks, Louis. I'd consider a move to your side of the pond, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have me!

There are certainly some interesting scopes that have sold for around or below our budget in the UK in the past year or two, so our fingers are crossed. I think we'll try to be patient.

The longer term plan is to move house and hopefully get an obsy one day, then try to get our dream large dob. Something like this looks tempting for £5K! (currently for sale, but I think we'll stick to our new £3K budget, and I definitely don't fancy my chances setting this beast up on my own! Though it does have larger wheels than my car, and a bigger finder than my biggest frac, LOL!)

I think a well-priced Orion Optics 12 or 14 would really tempt us, but we're open to whatever is on a good price. I think I've realised that the priority isn't what I thought it was, which was to replace the 16 inch we sold. It turns out it's really just to add something nice to our collection that offers something to different to what we currently have. It took a while for the aperture fever to calm a bit. Though I am certainly open to a large scope again with the idea that we do stick wheels on it if needs be, so that it's much easier on me than the old setup.

We have a lovely day here today, I hope it's good your way too.

Edited April 30 by LukeTheNuke

[Louis D]

On 30/04/2024 at 06:54, LukeTheNuke said:

Thanks, Louis. I'd consider a move to your side of the pond, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have me!

Nah, come on over.  We've been rolling out the welcome mat lately to anyone and everyone it seems. 😏

[Piero]

Well, if I were you I would either wait or get a temporary solution from the second hand market until you have moved to your new house. Doing so, you will be sure that you invest money in the right instrument for the place where you will live for a while.