Lithium Batteries for a mobile (flight safe / legal) imaging rig.

[Adam J]

Following a discussion Hijacking the HEM15 review thread I have started a dedicated thread here. 

The system I have made and flown with on both Easyjet and Ryan Air is detailed below:

I take two of these LiFePo4 batteries:

ECO-WORTHY 12V 8Ah Rechargeable LiFePO4 Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery with Over 3000 Times Deep Cycle for Fish finder,Ride on Car,Emergency Ham Radio,Burglar Alarm System,Kid Scooter,Solar Panel : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

They are 8Ah at a nominal 12 volts for 96Wh per battery 

Batteries under 100Wh per pack are almost universally allowed on flights in carry on luggage. 

You have to be really careful, not all will allow over 100Wh while FAA regs state up to 160Wh, some will allow this, but frequently this is limited to 2 packs and in some cases they do now allow a total (for all batteries) >300Wh. So you would not be allowed to take two 160Wh batteries. 

This has been suggested: 

Celestron Lithium 13.2 Ah LiFePO4 Powertank Pro | First Light Optics

But I like to keep it simple, everyone will let you take a 96Wh battery on a plane in hand luggage, you cant get tripped up by it. 

But honestly that aside the Celestron power tanks is £235....

Here is what I put together for £120 pounds all inclusive using two batteries of 98Wh each for a total of 196Wh and that price includes a charger....so why anyone would pay for that power tank is beyond me unless you really did not pay attention in your GCSE physics and cant wire a battery to a connector and I really doubt that applies to very many people in this hobby.  

This is 2x96Wh LiFePo4 batteries. The batteries each include a battery management system to prevent, overheating, over charging, over current, and over discharge internally as stock, I tested and it works. 

I have attached cables two each terminating in a Female XT60 connector. 

The batteries attach to a control box in parallel with three Male XT60 connectors. This means you get the full 192Wh without disconnecting a battery, you can also charge the batteries in parallel by connecting a charger to the third connector. 

The Box contains a Battery charge monitor (top green) that displays percentage charge and battery voltage. Further more it contains a 12.2 volt regulator with boost (that way you can run the battery down to 11.2volts while still maintaining 12.2volts on the output (no low voltage issues), also it can make use of any battery or power supply from 8volts to 24volts and still output 12.2volts. You could even charge while in use. It also contains a 5volt regulator that outputs to a USB A-type socket so that any USB device can also be charged / powered from the batteries and finally a switch...

For me this is a vastly better solution than the celestron power tank and much much cheaper. 

It then all attached to a power distribution box on the scope dovetail from one output and the second output powers the mount and mini PC. 

Discuss:

Adam

Edited February 25 by Adam J

[adyj1]

I can confirm that Virgin Atlantic only allow 2 x 100Wh batteries, and I purchased similar batteries to @Adam Jwhen I travelled in September 2023. (British Airways allowed 2 x150Wh).

The VA website said to ring the help desk if you were carrying these batteries, which I dutifully did a couple of weeks before the flight. Having taken all my flight details, I expected some extra checks at check-in, but nothing happened - at no time did anyone ask anything about batteries... 

I don't have anything as fancy as Adam for connecting the batteries in the field - a diy barrel power connector wired to two pairs of spade connectors so they are both connected at the same time. My diy 1-to-4 3d-printed power box has five 5.5/2.1 barrel sockets, with one fused for input. This worked a treat with an AP rig of AZ-Gti, NUC PC, and ASI533MC Pro. (I didn't need dew straps on account of being in the mojave desert 😁) 

Edited February 25 by adyj1
Clarity

[Celerondon]

On 24/02/2024 at 17:23, adyj1 said:

I can confirm that Virgin Atlantic only allow 2 x 100Wh batteries, and I purchased similar batteries to @Adam Jwhen I travelled in September 2023. (British Airways allowed 2 x150Wh).

The VA website said to ring the help desk if you were carrying these batteries, which I dutifully did a couple of weeks before the flight. Having taken all my flight details, I expected some extra checks at check-in, but nothing happened - at no time did anyone ask anything about batteries... 

I don't have anything as fancy as Adam for connecting the batteries in the field - a diy barrel power connector wired to two pairs of spade connectors so they are both connected at the same time. My diy 1-to-4 3d-printed power box has five 5.5/2.1 barrel sockets, with one fused for input. This worked a treat with an AP rig of AZ-Gti, NUC PC, and ASI533MC Pro. (I didn't need dew straps on account of being in the mojave desert 😁) 

Did British Airways change their battery capacity specifications?  This page states a 2 X 160Wh limitation.  

I am like you.  My power connections are fairly simple.  I use a circuit breaker/switch assembly, an online power meter, and a 100Wh LiFePO4 beast that was much less expensive than the Celestron Lithium Powertank Pro.  Everything is connected with Powerpole connectors, and this setup could hardly be easier to manage.  

I am interested in building a box like Adam's, but I haven't yet decided which features it will have.  USB and DC5521 ports are a given but inverters give me pause.  Will the effort, expense, and bulk required to include one be worth the trouble?  The vendors love selling inverter equipped power stations and solar generators to the public, but I am not a big user of wall warts.

Don

Edited February 26 by Celerondon

[Elp]

I haven't tested the power with a meter but my mobile batteries are the Celestron Lithium LT (smaller than the one above) and the Talentcell 72W 100WH. Despite what people say against Talentcell, it outperforms the LT though that's expected due to capacity, but when I try to power my asiair with the mount connected via it's 12v out ports the LTs cannot power on my ioptron mounts, the Talentcell can. The azgti doesn't have this issue with either battery.

[adyj1]

4 hours ago, Celerondon said:

Did British Airways change their battery capacity specifications?  This page states a 2 X 160Wh limitation. 

Apologies, I should not have relied on memory - you are correct. 

I haven't bothered with a power meter as my simple understanding of lifepo4 is that it maintains the steady voltage then drops off quickly. I probably should add one. 

[PadrePeace]

I’ve made something similar to AdamJ but without his bells and whistles. I have the same battery with spade connectors and I’ve made a terminal cover strap out of sticky backed Velcro which can be peeled on and off as required. The power box has a battery monitor and an output of volts and amps. It’s switched and the output is fused at 5 amps. 

The power output travels by a silicon lead up to a power splitter box mounted on top of the scope to power, camera, focuser, mount, and two dew heaters through an adjustable power output box when needed. 

All tidy and light weight ready for travel. 

[GTom]

Currently I have a Miady 7.2Ah unit, which I am very satisfied with. Paid around £40 on Amazon. Stepping up to a heavily loaded(!) SA GTi my power needs will increase, I'll probably just get another one. No plans yet to fly with my power hog Moravian G3, as it is also super heavy for a travel rig :(. 

I'll add a lightweight budget LiFePO CAR charger.

Edited March 1 by GTom

[900SL]

On 25/02/2024 at 01:40, Adam J said:

Following a discussion Hijacking the HEM15 review thread I have started a dedicated thread here. 

The system I have made and flown with on both Easyjet and Ryan Air is detailed below:

I take two of these LiFePo4 batteries:

ECO-WORTHY 12V 8Ah Rechargeable LiFePO4 Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery with Over 3000 Times Deep Cycle for Fish finder,Ride on Car,Emergency Ham Radio,Burglar Alarm System,Kid Scooter,Solar Panel : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

They are 8Ah at a nominal 12 volts for 96Wh per battery 

Batteries under 100Wh per pack are almost universally allowed on flights in carry on luggage. 

You have to be really careful, not all will allow over 100Wh while FAA regs state up to 160Wh, some will allow this, but frequently this is limited to 2 packs and in some cases they do now allow a total (for all batteries) >300Wh. So you would not be allowed to take two 160Wh batteries. 

This has been suggested: 

Celestron Lithium 13.2 Ah LiFePO4 Powertank Pro | First Light Optics

But I like to keep it simple, everyone will let you take a 96Wh battery on a plane in hand luggage, you cant get tripped up by it. 

But honestly that aside the Celestron power tanks is £235....

Here is what I put together for £120 pounds all inclusive using two batteries of 98Wh each for a total of 196Wh and that price includes a charger....so why anyone would pay for that power tank is beyond me unless you really did not pay attention in your GCSE physics and cant wire a battery to a connector and I really doubt that applies to very many people in this hobby.  

This is 2x96Wh LiFePo4 batteries. The batteries each include a battery management system to prevent, overheating, over charging, over current, and over discharge internally as stock, I tested and it works. 

I have attached cables two each terminating in a Female XT60 connector. 

The batteries attach to a control box in parallel with three Male XT60 connectors. This means you get the full 192Wh without disconnecting a battery, you can also charge the batteries in parallel by connecting a charger to the third connector. 

The Box contains a Battery charge monitor (top green) that displays percentage charge and battery voltage. Further more it contains a 12.2 volt regulator with boost (that way you can run the battery down to 11.2volts while still maintaining 12.2volts on the output (no low voltage issues), also it can make use of any battery or power supply from 8volts to 24volts and still output 12.2volts. You could even charge while in use. It also contains a 5volt regulator that outputs to a USB A-type socket so that any USB device can also be charged / powered from the batteries and finally a switch...

For me this is a vastly better solution than the celestron power tank and much much cheaper. 

It then all attached to a power distribution box on the scope dovetail from one output and the second output powers the mount and mini PC. 

Discuss:

Adam

Looks good Adam! You don't have links for the box, display, regulators etc? 

[vlaiv]

It is worth noting that LiFePo4 batteries are much much safer to handle than regular lithium ion batteries - so they are good choice where premium power density is not required

(they have slightly lower power density than lithium ion batteries - while they might not be the best choice for say a drone, they are perfectly fine for this application among others - like electric cars and such).

[GTom]

6 hours ago, vlaiv said:

It is worth noting that LiFePo4 batteries are much much safer to handle than regular lithium ion batteries - so they are good choice where premium power density is not required

(they have slightly lower power density than lithium ion batteries - while they might not be the best choice for say a drone, they are perfectly fine for this application among others - like electric cars and such).

Besides safety I really like their flat characterostics. They provide almost constant voltage until they are almost depleted. That may be particularly important for some cameras.

[Adam J]

On 01/03/2024 at 07:33, 900SL said:

Looks good Adam! You don't have links for the box, display, regulators etc? 

Box:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07F9S5W2R/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A1A6WWKJ95BCLL&psc=1

Battery Monitor:

DC 12V 24V 36V 48V 60V 72V 84V Battery Meter with Alarm, Front Setting and Switch Key, Battery Capacity Voltage Indicator Battery Gauge Monitors -Acid and Lithium ion Battery Indicator (Green) : Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

XT60 Connectors:

Nuofany 5Pairs XT60E-F Female Plug XT60h XT60 Male Bullet Connector Wire Cable Plug for RC FPV Lipo Battery RC Quadcopter : Amazon.co.uk: Toys & Games

5volt regulator:

Voltage Converter - DC 12V to 5V Step Down Buck Converter Regulator with Female Mount Panel +USB Socket for Car Audio,Radio,Monitor,LED (IP67 Waterproof) : Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

12volt regulator:

DROK DC-DC Stabilizer, 9V-36V to 12V Boost Buck Converter 5A 60W Waterproof Auto Step Up Down Voltage Regulator 12V Volt Transformer for Car Audio Solar Power System LCD Television LED Display Screen: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

Similar switches:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BD39FPRQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1DPAY3BCHO71J&psc=1

Could not find the same output voltage monitor but this would work:

CNLW DC 5-100V LED Digital Display Round Two-wire Voltmeter DC Digital Car Voltage Current Meter Volt Detector Tester Monitor Pane (Red) : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

5.5/2.1 connectors:

YIXISI 5.5 x 2.1mm DC Power Connector Kit, 5 PCS DC-099 Jack Socket Threaded Female Adapter with Cable, 5 PCS DC Power Male Pigtail Wire, with Waterproof Cap: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

Batteries:

ECO-WORTHY 12V 8Ah Rechargeable LiFePO4 Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery with Over 3000 Times Deep Cycle for Fish finder,Ride on Car,Emergency Ham Radio,Burglar Alarm System,Kid Scooter,Solar Panel: Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

Charger:

ISDT Q6 Nano Lipo Charger,DC 200W Smart Digital Charger for RC Batteries,Universal Balance Discharge Charger for LiFe/Lilon/LiPo/LiHV (1-6S),NiMH/Cd (1-16S),Pb (1-12S) Batteries: Amazon.co.uk: Toys & Games

Use LIFe mode

 

So allot of this I already have and sometimes you get this stuff cheaper on ebay selling single items while most of this is bulk buy. SO the cost is more than I paid.  You need to shop about a bit. 

 

You can fit it all in the box i used, but you will have an easier time if you go a size larger I think. 

 

Adam

Edited March 3 by Adam J

[900SL]

Thanks Adam!

[GTom]

Shopping for additional batteries, I want to make sure that they can travel with me anywhere during their lifespan and that lifespan doesn't end up in an airport bin...

Just checked Namibia/KLM (def bucket list item): you need to ask permission to bring anything between 100 and 160Wh on board. How does that work? They decide on the spot that the $$$ battery I brought to the aircraft goes  to the bin just because they have a bad day? https://www.klm.com.na/information/baggage/restricted-items-hand-baggage

Airlink, South Africa relives you from that worry, anything above 100Wh definitely goes in the bin: https://www.flyairlink.com/en/za/baggage-portable-electronic-devices

Europe/Canaries: 160Wh usually fine.

[Elp]

I assume for absolute simplicity of connecting up you need:

Battery, 12v regulator, pigtail 12v female connector (5.5 x 2.1mm size). Maybe a switch to turn it off and on.

Is this correct?

(Also how would you charge it back up?).

I've been happy using off the shelf compact ones (less than 100Wh) but I'm putting together something which will draw more amps and will need to have more capacity as a result.

The little tutorials I've seen, people take it OTT, I just want simplicity. Maybe later I'll add in a monitor.

[Adam J]

13 minutes ago, Elp said:

I assume for absolute simplicity of connecting up you need:

Battery, 12v regulator, pigtail 12v female connector (5.5 x 2.1mm size). Maybe a switch to turn it off and on.

Is this correct?

(Also how would you charge it back up?).

I've been happy using off the shelf compact ones (less than 100Wh) but I'm putting together something which will draw more amps and will need to have more capacity as a result.

The little tutorials I've seen, people take it OTT, I just want simplicity. Maybe later I'll add in a monitor.

You don't actually need the 12volt regulator for the LiFePO4 but you do if you want to be able to use other types of batteries and higher voltage power supplies and I think it adds a layer of protection to what is expensive equipment. SO with the regulator for example you could use a 4 Cell LIPO battery if you wanted or a 24volt leisure battery. or a 16volt power supply or even a 9 volt battery, it would all end up at 12.2volts. 

You charge it by connecting both batteries to the box and then the charger to the third XT60 connector.  Then you can charge both batteries at the same time. 

Adam 

 

 

Edited March 9 by Adam J

[Elp]

Need some advice please. I may be able to do AP (well I think so anyway), but electronics was never my forte (even though I can build and usually fault find PCs), so putting together a custom rig which might need a new more powerful battery I decided to load test it first and bought this monitor and 2 off pig tail 12v 5.5 x 2.1mm female connectors (as my current battery is the same connection as is the asiair):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/YOJOCK-Amperemeter-100A-PZEM-015-shunt/dp/B0BP788XVX/ref=mp_s_a_1_19?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xQCGbdePFhVdnQpZkqHncyUPlXu7hLPXOlJR09s2gtgnYYViHfK4OBFqMZcEs0g21qeufhIOh63sN5gkb8R80DafVMHO6v72cRwBLvhwYwyvKQ8fkPpz06fzsZI9ftNf-kRwTVm9oyP0lHyY-HP03JVgwTJJAGy0dLAqq9kjqj4W_Qbdri7I0riKmXLlsiTu92bJs5EuOKQBuecrjMSTQQ.NvSkuPhw5FrClIaHEFzZnadrY_-ICIpmT8JiKuh8QRM&dib_tag=se&keywords=battery+monitor&qid=1710267907&sr=8-19

Now looking at the instructions I've wired it as per the top wiring diagram minus the external battery connections as ive only got the one battery but the monitor doesn't power on and also not the air. Any advice? I'm not sure if I can even use the 12v female cables I've got for this.

[Elp]

If there's a simpler equivalent product out there please advise.

[Adam J]

4 hours ago, Elp said:

Need some advice please. I may be able to do AP (well I think so anyway), but electronics was never my forte (even though I can build and usually fault find PCs), so putting together a custom rig which might need a new more powerful battery I decided to load test it first and bought this monitor and 2 off pig tail 12v 5.5 x 2.1mm female connectors (as my current battery is the same connection as is the asiair):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/YOJOCK-Amperemeter-100A-PZEM-015-shunt/dp/B0BP788XVX/ref=mp_s_a_1_19?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xQCGbdePFhVdnQpZkqHncyUPlXu7hLPXOlJR09s2gtgnYYViHfK4OBFqMZcEs0g21qeufhIOh63sN5gkb8R80DafVMHO6v72cRwBLvhwYwyvKQ8fkPpz06fzsZI9ftNf-kRwTVm9oyP0lHyY-HP03JVgwTJJAGy0dLAqq9kjqj4W_Qbdri7I0riKmXLlsiTu92bJs5EuOKQBuecrjMSTQQ.NvSkuPhw5FrClIaHEFzZnadrY_-ICIpmT8JiKuh8QRM&dib_tag=se&keywords=battery+monitor&qid=1710267907&sr=8-19

Now looking at the instructions I've wired it as per the top wiring diagram minus the external battery connections as ive only got the one battery but the monitor doesn't power on and also not the air. Any advice? I'm not sure if I can even use the 12v female cables I've got for this.

I would really need a better look at the connections. What type of battery are you using? 

[Elp]

2 hours ago, Adam J said:

I would really need a better look at the connections. What type of battery are you using? 

I just tested it with a Celestron Lithium LT hence the need for the 12V female connectors. I'm only concerned with testing the 12V at the moment. 

Within the monitor the connections are simply spring fit, you depress the corresponding connector "button", insert a spliced cable bare copper wire into the opened hole, release the "button" and the cable is retained. I don't think I need the shunt considering the amount of amps is low, but even if I did, I can't see how to connect the bridged positive and negative connections to the 12v female cables if I did need the shunt.

[Adam J]

On 13/03/2024 at 00:50, Elp said:

I just tested it with a Celestron Lithium LT hence the need for the 12V female connectors. I'm only concerned with testing the 12V at the moment. 

Within the monitor the connections are simply spring fit, you depress the corresponding connector "button", insert a spliced cable bare copper wire into the opened hole, release the "button" and the cable is retained. I don't think I need the shunt considering the amount of amps is low, but even if I did, I can't see how to connect the bridged positive and negative connections to the 12v female cables if I did need the shunt.

So if the battery is charged and you connected it correctly it should at least show voltage. If it's not showing voltage then it's probably just busted. 

Adam

[Elp]

An update: I changed the above battery monitor to a much simpler one which has a positive and negative wire coming out each side of the monitor (one for battery and one for load), connected them up to the 12V female pigtails and, voila, it works straight away as I required:

 

Curious that both my Talentcell 72W and Celestron Lithium LTs both measure below 12V (11.something see above) but power my hem15, air and cooled camera and guide camera no issue (ive been using these batteries for a few years barring the TC which is around a year old maybe).

Also the monitor isn't the best as an Asiair mini with only a non cooled camera left to take exposures draws 0A and 0W according to it, but yet when I try to daisy chain the mini to a plus 12v out port the whole setup refuses to switch on.

So what I'll have to do now is try to work out if I need a larger lifepo4 battery for the main setup, and run everything else separately with their own batteries... Or I can implement some sort of power box like a Pegasus one, feed it one larger battery, and route the 12vs off the Pegasus.

[Elp]

On 02/03/2024 at 22:35, Adam J said:

Batteries:

ECO-WORTHY 12V 8Ah Rechargeable LiFePO4

I tried this battery for a rig I'm putting together. The voltage started at 12.8V then dropped to below 11 within 5 minutes causing my airs to reset. Is this due to total power draw in amps/watts?

[Adam J]

7 minutes ago, Elp said:

I tried this battery for a rig I'm putting together. The voltage started at 12.8V then dropped to below 11 within 5 minutes causing my airs to reset. Is this due to total power draw in amps/watts?

No if its starting at 12.8 volts it was not properly charged to start with.  It sounds to me like it barely had any charge in it. It should start at 13.4volts when fully charged. 

Are you charging it with a dedicated LIFE charger I hope?

Charging it with anything else is potentially extremely hazardous. 

It should run a ASI Air for about 12-24hours. 

Adam

Edited April 3 by Adam J

[Elp]

16 minutes ago, Adam J said:

No if its starting at 12.8 volts it was not properly charged to start with.  It sounds to me like it barely had any charge in it. It should start at 13.4volts when fully charged. 

Are you charging it with a dedicated LIFE charger I hope?

Charging it with anything else is potentially extremely hazardous. 

It should run a ASI Air for about 12-24hours. 

Adam

I've got the same brand charger so will charge it up, I did battery test with it though prior and it stated 100pc but I assume that's health or something.

[Adam J]

4 minutes ago, Elp said:

I've got the same brand charger so will charge it up, I did battery test with it though prior and it stated 100pc but I assume that's health or something.

So not sure on your battery monitor, make sure that the charger is set correctly as if its like mine it has many different options. My max charge voltage is about 14.3 - 14.4 volts on the LIFE charge profile. 

Take note of how much you put into the battery. 

Are you sure that monitor is for LIFE batteries and not Lead Acid as that would set 12.8 volts as 100% charge.

Adam 

Edited April 3 by Adam J