Supernova in NGC 4216

[tomato]

This is somewhat after the event but as far as I can see it has not yet been reported in this section:

On 4 Jan. 2024, Koichi Itagaki, one of the most prolific supernova discoverers of our times, has found a new transient in NGC 4216, quickly confirmed to be a type Ia supernova.
 

It’s at the South East tip of Leo so is visible from the UK from around 23:30 or so, definitely an imaging target with two other galaxies close by.

[John]

Thanks 🙂

Currently listed as mag 12.8 so medium apertures can see it.

 

 

[tomato]

Finally managed to image this last night, Lum only as my extended unattended session did not play ball. SN2024gy is still clearly visible with 46 mins of integration.

But what is that curious dragonfly shaped object to the bottom right of the centre galaxy? It isn't a specific scope/camera artefact as it is present on the Red channel data that I managed to collect, which is a duplicate scope and camera, see close up crops below. I have checked other images of this area and can't see it, any ideas? If it is a drone then it stayed stationary for quite a while, could it be a geostationary satellite? If so then I'm chuffed that I captured it in some detail!

 

Crop of Lum image:

Crop of Red channel image:

 

[gorann]

Interesting! There is at least nothing there in DSS2:

[gorann]

I figured it out! It is a cosmic chromosome:

[tomato]

Yes @wimvb's image of this trio of galaxies doesn't show it either. My money would be on a geostationary satellite, but it would have to be a pretty darn big one, it's approx 23" in diameter, that's roughly twice the apparent diameter of the ISS.  Do planetarium packages like Stellarium show these? 

[Tomatobro]

I will look at the software we use to do ISS tracking. Remember my post on how  many geo's you can capture in one image? I think you can enter the coordinates and find out what is their (unless its a military top secret one).

[tomato]

Here is the annotated image:

[tomato]

4 minutes ago, Tomatobro said:

 I think you can enter the coordinates and find out what is there (unless its a military top secret one).

That could be me heading for Guantanamo Bay then.😉

[Tomatobro]

Don't worry. I will DHL a file to you in a cake.

[gorann]

Geostationary satellites have to be above the equator. Does that fit with the direction you were imaging? Also they are stationary in relation to their position above the earth surface so if you were tracking the galaxy for some time the satellite should move in the image.

[tomato]

Yes, tracking for around 45 minutes. If it isn’t a satellite, any other suggestions?

[Tomatobro]

diffraction caused by a tiny spider on the objective?

[tomato]

That was a possibility (I had a lacewing giving me weird diffraction spikes on that scope at the start of the session) but the object is on the other scope at the same location so I don’t think it is scope or camera in origin.

[MalcolmP]

Not at all sure about this, but for what it might be worth ! :-

I am just looking at my images from last night of NGC 4216 and was trying to see if I had imaged (4024) Ronan close by.
So I tentatively offer that as a possibility,
cant explain the shape !  but is in the right place for about 10 or 11pm??  I think I have it a short distance away on the same track  at 1 or 2 am.

will post images later.
 

PS I say "or" in my timings because I have just discovered that my image time stamps seem to be still on BST ! eeek 

Edited March 4 by MalcolmP

[ONIKKINEN]

This is about 10 degrees away from the ecliptic, so not a Geostationary satellite i would think. It could be a Geosynchronous satellite that has the semi-major axis of a Geostationary satellite but some inclination to its orbit, and if it has at least 10 degrees of inclination it would find itself right around here - or an old satellite that has been sent to a "graveyard" orbit with some inclination so as to not needlessly take a spot of the limited geostationary orbit path. Seems very large for a satellite at this distance though.

If you can find this in the individual subs and measure some movement you could maybe draw some conclusions from that. Maybe try stacking the dataset in 3 batches? For example the first 1/3 of the data, the middle part, and the end of the night. If stationary in all of them then it might be some internal reflection or anything scope-born rather than an object in the sky as a satellite in a 10 degree inclined orbit will have moved noticeably during even a couple of hours.

*Hmm, no wait i got confused. The ecliptic doesnt have anything to do with Geostationary, but still looks like its not exactly over the equator.

Edited March 4 by ONIKKINEN
* second thoughts

[wimvb]

4 hours ago, tomato said:

Yes @wimvb's image of this trio of galaxies doesn't show it either. My money would be on a geostationary satellite, but it would have to be a pretty darn big one, it's approx 23" in diameter, that's roughly twice the apparent diameter of the ISS.  Do planetarium packages like Stellarium show these? 

Nope, no chromosomes, no supernova and no satellites in my image. I'd thought of imaging the SN in ngc 4216, but my mount doesn't reach past the cloud cover. Maybe wednesday night ...

[MalcolmP]

25 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

The ecliptic doesnt have anything to do with Geostationary, but still looks like its not exactly over the equator.

The equator crosses the ecliptic not far south of it so could be a geo or a stray geo run out of station-keeping.  But my money is still on asteroid (4024) Ronan   

[Paul M]

Intresting image.

I took the liberty of solving exhibit "A" in ASTAP and annotated position the position of the accused asteroid at times 22:00 ( top), 23:00 and 00:01 (bottom), last night.

It was observed to pass through the exact area of the alleged incident. Although there are no other witnesses, there is, in my view, sufficient evidence that the unidentifed object is some abberation or stacking artifact of the accused asteroid.

Given it's magnitude and that stars down to mag 18 are plainly resolved, yet no clear asteroid trail is present.... I rest my case.

Send him down!

[Paul M]

Just to add, imagine, waiting billions of years for it to be your time to shine... To be that Supernova....And then get sidelined and talked over! 🤣

[PeterC65]

I've managed to observe the supernova three times now via EAA, on the 18/1, 11/2 and 2/3. It's clearly fading in brightness as you can see below.

From 18/1/24

From 11/2/24

From 2/3/24

The second image from the 11/2/24 is my favourite. Taken with the Explorer 200 and x1.7 Barlow, with flats to combat the dust bunnies.

 

[gorann]

2 hours ago, Paul M said:

Just to add, imagine, waiting billions of years for it to be your time to shine... To be that Supernova....And then get sidelined and talked over! 🤣

Yes, how cares about an old exploding star, they keep doing it all the time, when there is a real mystery to be solved!

[gorann]

4 hours ago, Paul M said:

Intresting image.

I took the liberty of solving exhibit "A" in ASTAP and annotated position the position of the accused asteroid at times 22:00 ( top), 23:00 and 00:01 (bottom), last night.

It was observed to pass through the exact area of the alleged incident. Although there are no other witnesses, there is, in my view, sufficient evidence that the unidentifed object is some abberation or stacking artifact of the accused asteroid.

Given it's magnitude and that stars down to mag 18 are plainly resolved, yet no clear asteroid trail is present.... I rest my case.

Send him down!

Impressed! Does this mean that mystery is solved?

[tomato]

I’ll sort out the subs tomorrow and do a little gif animation to see if that sheds some light on it. 
Back to the SN, what a show for astronomers  living in a (not too) nearby spiral arm of NGC 4216.

[Paul M]

27 minutes ago, gorann said:

Impressed! Does this mean that mystery is solved?

Lets see what Mr Tomato can eek out of his subs. I love a good mystery. Processing pixels to death bores me to death but astrometry and solar system/ minor bodies gets my attention!

I'm stuck for ideas as to what might cause a moving object to follow offset paths in each data set??  Fair enough, offet along the line of motion, goes without saying, but not offet to adjacent tracks. Chromatic effects?? Who knows.

Anyway, I am leaning towards poor workmanship... 🙊 🤣😉