Bortle 8 resident - Did I screw up? Advice Please

[Vinnyvent84]

Good Evening Everyone!

I live in Brooklyn NY (Bortle 8 Zone) and just purchased a Celestron Nexstar 6SE to use with my wife and 4 year old son for Christmas. Of Course, I set the whole thing up, ready to go and nothing but intermittent rain with 85% or more cloud cover since Christmas Eve and probably another 3-4 days 🙄. Needless to say I have been itching to use it but also have now had the time to doubt myself. Should I have spent some more purchased the 8SE? It honestly wasn’t out of the money for the most part, I read the mount is really not capable for the scope with attachments and subject to vibration more then the 6SE, longer time to acclimate to weather, and not nearly as portable ( I will be taking it in and out of yard after each use) and many times I’ve read the difference for visual is extremely minor. But now I’m afraid I should have just got the 8SE, is it just me torturing myself while I wait to use scope?

 

I tried to buy quality eyepieces and equipment to hopefully increase the detail of what I can see. I bought the StarSense auto align and the following eyepieces / Accessories:

1. Baader 1.25 Prism Diagonal 

2. Baader Mark IV 8-24mm Zoom

3. Explore Scientific 2x Focal Extender

4. Celestron X-Cel 7mm (only got it because the store threw it in for free)

5. Televue Plossl 32mm

6. Baader Moon and Skyglow Filter

7. Celestron WiFi Module

8. Celestron Solar Filter

9. Celestron Aluminum Dew Shield

I really am hoping to do mostly Planetary, Lunar and Star viewing the family. It was very important to me for my son to get some good views of Saturn and Jupiter with its belts. Did I totally drop the ball and nothing I have will fit that bill? 
 

I even was debating switching out the ES Focal Extender 2x for the Televue PowerMate 2.5x or the Carl Zeiss 2x Abbe Barlow if people here thought it would make a difference? 
 

I wanted to get a high quality 7mm eyepiece like the Televue Delite but I don’t even know if that’s overpowered for my scope and location and would just provide me blurry images of the planets and moon?

Guess my impatience and frustration with the weather is getting the best of me. Any feedback, help or advice on my concerns and thoughts on my equipment (and possible purchases) would be GREATLY appreciated while I impatiently wait for clearer skies. Thank you!

[bosun21]

Your 6SE will provide you with good views of the planets, moon and some star clusters etc.I used to own a 8SE and I also found that the mount was marginal at best with a lot of vibration while focusing. Don't buy another thing until you learn how to use your telescope and get used to it. The benefits of expensive eyepieces is very small when compared to mid range ones. You already have more than enough equipment. Take your time and start with the easy targets like the moon and planets and get a feel for the telescope. Good luck.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Bortle 8 isn't going to be doing you any favours but having used a C5 under similar conditions with just the 25mm and 9mm standard eyepieces, you'll get decent views of your target objects with a C6.  Celestron produce a few different versions of the Nexstar mount, with one for the 4SE (Maksutov) and 5SE (SCT), then the next version is a bigger variant for the 6SE (your scope) and the 8SE.  I think it's fair to say the 8SE is potentially slightly undermounted, so you are best off with a C6 on that mount.

I'll echo @bosun21 and say that you really don't need to buy anything else.  The most important part of this is learning to use what you have and constantly swapping out eyepieces and accessories will distract from the main task of learning to use the telescope and learning to observe.

The X-Cel eyepiece will definitely give you good planetary views - but as ever, make sure you've got the telescope aligned with a red-dot (or other finder) during the day first as this will make the initial sky alignment and GOTO functions so much easier and more efficient.

The limiting factor here isn't going to be the equipment, it's going to be your skies and skill level.

[Vinnyvent84]

9 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Your 6SE will provide you with good views of the planets, moon and some star clusters etc.I used to own a 8SE and I also found that the mount was marginal at best with a lot of vibration while focusing. Don't buy another thing until you learn how to use your telescope and get used to it. The benefits of expensive eyepieces is very small when compared to mid range ones. You already have more than enough equipment. Take your time and start with the easy targets like the moon and planets and get a feel for the telescope. Good luck.

Appreciate the Feedback! Thank you!

[Vinnyvent84]

5 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

The X-Cel eyepiece will definitely give you good planetary views - but as ever, make sure you've got the telescope aligned with a red-dot (or other finder) during the day first as this will make the initial sky alignment and GOTO functions so much easier and more efficient.

Thank you GrumpiusMaximus! I apologize if I’m being a pest, but due to me being a newbie can you clarify the above? I have both the red dot and the StarSense auto align on my scope but I thought I couldn’t use either until nighttime. How would I perform an alignment in the day (assuming clearer skies / no rain)? You can the StarSense auto align during daylight hours? How would I align with the red dot to make go-to functions easier and more efficient? Thanks for any clarification you can provide!

[GrumpiusMaximus]

13 minutes ago, Vinnyvent84 said:

Thank you GrumpiusMaximus! I apologize if I’m being a pest, but due to me being a newbie can you clarify the above? I have both the red dot and the StarSense auto align on my scope but I thought I couldn’t use either until nighttime. How would I perform an alignment in the day (assuming clearer skies / no rain)? You can the StarSense auto align during daylight hours? How would I align with the red dot to make go-to functions easier and more efficient? Thanks for any clarification you can provide!

No problem.

I'm not familiar with the StarSense per se but my understanding is that it plate solves, so that should be a self-aligning system.  There are others on here with a lot more experience on that front than me though and may be able to advise otherwise.

For the red dot, the standard advice is to point the telescope at a distant object during the day (e.g. a chimney or aerial), get it into the centre of your field of view and then use the adjustment knobs on the red dot to align in precisely with the view in the scope.  You check the eyepiece, then check where the dot is.  If it's too high, you lower it, if it's to the left or right, you move it left or right, etc. until it's pointing at precisely the same point as the centre of the eyepiece view.

If you decide to align using the NexStar alignment, it will ask you to point the telescope at several different objects so that it can make an internal map of the sky in its memory and work out where it is.  When you look through the eyepiece of a telescope, even at lower power, you'll see a lot more than you can with the naked eye and there will be a magnification factor applied.  This can make it very challenging to work out what you're looking at!  Looking at Polaris for instance can be confusing to a beginner because although it may appear like an isolated star with the naked eye, under a telescope it's actually one of several and working out which one is Polaris takes a bit of practice.

With that in mind, the red dot lets you point the telescope without a magnification and just uses the naked eye.  If it's aligned properly with the telescope, when you're setting up the NexStar GOTO you move the telescope using the handset to a bright object (using the red dot), then make sure it's in the centre of your eyepiece by making small adjustments with the hand controller if necessary.  Confirm it on the handset and then move onto another object.  Usually I'd recommend the 2 or 3-star alignment with an SCT telescope because it's got a long focal length (and thus inherently applies a higher magnification) which means the alignment needs to be a bit more precise than a telescope with a shorter focal length as the field of view is narrower and thus it's harder to navigate.  The longer focal length does make it very well suited to planets and Lunar observing though!

With my short refractor I tend to just use a single-star alignment and manually adjust but I'm dealing with 420mm of focal length and low power eyepieces.  My C5 is 1250mm and a C6 is 1500mm, which means that a single-star alignment doesn't really cut it for accurate GOTO most of the time.

I hope that helps!

Edited December 27, 2023 by GrumpiusMaximus

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Believe me when I say I have learned the hard way on most things and most of my learning has been in the last couple of years as I'm a relative beginner compared to many here!  Just to add though, back in 2015 my Dad, myself and an astronomy friend of his did a 'Messier Marathon' with my C5 (it belonged to my Dad at the time) and his mate's C6.  An incredible night of viewing and we got over 90 objects.  The C6 is a very capable scope and a good balance between capability, transportability and ease-of-use.  There is a bit of a learning curve with setting it up compared to a Dobsonian-style reflector but it definitely has its advantages.

Focus on the basics, focus on getting it set up and aligned properly and get used to using just a couple of eyepieces and taking your time with the view.  You may be tempted to start swapping out eyepieces immediately but just let the image settle in your mind for a bit and you'll see a lot more than if you keep switching out the eyepiece.  Higher magnification does not always equate to a sharper image either, so don't be too surprised if you see more detail on planets with a lower-power eyepiece.  It happens.

Try not to get too frustrated when things don't work out straight away and be patient and a C6 is a scope that will be very rewarding to use.

I am not a good example for any of the above but I can at least serve as a warning of what not to do!

[Vinnyvent84]

9 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

Believe me when I say I have learned the hard way on most things and most of my learning has been in the last couple of years as I'm a relative beginner compared to many here!  Just to add though, back in 2015 my Dad, myself and an astronomy friend of his did a 'Messier Marathon' with my C5 (it belonged to my Dad at the time) and his mate's C6.  An incredible night of viewing and we got over 90 objects.  The C6 is a very capable scope and a good balance between capability, transportability and ease-of-use.  There is a bit of a learning curve with setting it up compared to a Dobsonian-style reflector but it definitely has its advantages.

Focus on the basics, focus on getting it set up and aligned properly and get used to using just a couple of eyepieces and taking your time with the view.  You may be tempted to start swapping out eyepieces immediately but just let the image settle in your mind for a bit and you'll see a lot more than if you keep switching out the eyepiece.  Higher magnification does not always equate to a sharper image either, so don't be too surprised if you see more detail on planets with a lower-power eyepiece.  It happens.

Try not to get too frustrated when things don't work out straight away and be patient and a C6 is a scope that will be very rewarding to use.

I am not a good example for any of the above but I can at least serve as a warning of what not to do!

I can’t thank you enough for all the above posts. You helped put my mind at ease and what a phenomenal explanation regarding the alignment. I will do that first thing tomorrow. Much thanks! 

[RT65CB-SWL]

The only thing I would change from your list would be the star diagonal for one with an SCT thread. My reason is that it feels safe and secure, especially when you have a heavy and/or expensive eyepiece sticking out of it.

[Naughty Neal]

The Xcel if the xcel - lx model should be not a bad eyepiece, unless of course they have thrown in dud one.

The 7mm has had very good reviews for it's sub $100 price tag.

[Dr Strange]

Hey mate

Happy belated Christmas and happy New Year!

A 6" refractor is the minimum size aperture that you need to see things as a beginner. I too am in Bortle 8 skies. I used to own the 8SE. The 2" increase in size do make a difference in Bortle 8 skies but not significantly. You really need to go up 3 inches or more to see a very noticeable difference with a reflector (reflectors have mirrors in them. Refractors have lenses). That said the 6SE will do fine. Everything is going to be faint and fuzzy balls of cotton except for star clusters, the moon and planets anyway. 

Having said that aperture is going to be king so if you have the funds and think you will stick with it, then get the 8SE. It is not under mounted. There may be some vibrations when you focus by that can be easily mitigated with Vibration Suppression Pads. There are ones made by Celestron that work very well. 

The real key is going to be the StarSense (SS). It will make things easier to work with after you get it dialed in. The key will be dialing it in. First you are going to want to make sure the red dot finder (RDF) is lined up with the telescope as best as possible. Ideally pick something that is easily seen about 20 miles from you and line it up on that. It can be a tree or anything else. Start by putting it in the scope then adjusting the RDF so that it too lines up. Then you will have to run the SS for the first time. It will be way off. Do the calibration process. As a part of it find a bright star in your night sky, Capella is a good one this time of year and so is Betelgeuse, and move the mount so that it is in the RDF which is now aligned to the telescope. Then finish the calibration process. After that the SS will align the telescope for you.

A tip on the SS. The Sky Tour is going to give you a bunch of stuff that is either not visible because of ground obstructions or is just not visible. Instead use the option where you can select objects to go to. NGC is the best choice. Go to www.tonightssky.com and develop a observing list. Put in your latitude and longitude as well as the starting time of your observing session and how many hours you are observing. Then select what you want to look at.  Skip Asteroids, Star Groups, and Double Stars (on this one unless you really like looking at Doubles then skip it). Then print it out on a piece of paper. Keep it next to the telescope and use a red light on a head lamp to look at it. Then you can manually put in the NGC number and the scope will go to it. I use a music sheet stand and have a clip on LED light that I put red tape over. The clip holds the paper and the light illuminates it. Red because white will destroy your night vision. 

For a beginner go up to Magnitude 8.5. You will need to strain to see stuff that faint but visual astronomy is just like any other thing you do. The more you do it the more you will see. So do it as much as possible. Another very important thing is you want a comfortable chair to sit on. It isn't for your rear end. It is for your eyes. The more comfortable you are the more you will see. And for your 4 year old you will want to make sure to hold his hands when he looks through the eyepiece as well as possibly help him cover one eye. There is a automatic reflex for that age (and all the way up to adult) to grab the eyepiece or telescope to help steady themselves and you want to prevent that. Also since you are in New York state you will want to dress for the cold. Don't dress like you are going to be moving around. You aren't. You will be sitting and it can get cold quick. I am likely preaching to the choir here but I just thought I would add it.

Some very nice eyepieces for that aperture or the 8" are the Explore Scientific 82 degree ones. I would recommend 14mm or 11mm and 8.8mm or 6.7 mm. The stock eyepiece that comes with the scope is fine for very large stuff but those two will give you much better magnification. The first one is for Deep Space Objects (DSO) and the second one is for planets in really good seeing. 

Speaking of planets the moon is waxing now but will change and looking at it is great fun. Also Jupiter and Saturn are up right now and excellent things to look at. 

[Tiny Clanger]

19 minutes ago, Dr Strange said:

Speaking of planets the moon is waxing now but will change and looking at it is great fun. Also Jupiter and Saturn are up right now and excellent things to look at. 

The Moon is waning now, and is not a planet.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

47 minutes ago, Dr Strange said:

A 6" refractor is the minimum size aperture that you need to see things as a beginner.

Strongly disagree.  A 6" refractor would be an absolutely enormous, unwieldy scope that would require significant investment not only in terms of optics but also time and storage space.

Realistically, a beginner can get a good start with a 4" reflector but bigger would be better.  A 6" Schmidt-Cassegrain is more than enough telescope to get started.

I've been using a 5" SCT for years and have recently been having a lot of fun with a 70mm refractor.  The 'minimum' size really comes down to your personal expectations.  If you want to see stars at -16 magnitude then you're going to need something enormous like a 16" truss Dobsonian but if you want to split tricky double stars, you don't need much more than a quality 4" refractor.

It really is a case of horses for courses.  Ed Ting's excellent videos recommend a 6" or 8" Dobsonian (as do many others) and this is a sensible suggestion for many as it covers pretty much all of the visual basics in a relatively affordable package but this is a recommendation, not a rule.  A 6" Schimdt-Cassegrain is a highly capable scope that the original poster will be able to get excellent results with, if a bit of persistance and practice is applied.

Edited December 30, 2023 by GrumpiusMaximus

[lunator]

When I first got back into Astronomy I lived in a Bortle 8 area. It will impact what you can see but there are still plenty to see. 

The Moon, planets, star clusters both Open and Globular and my particular favourites double stars. I've observed 2500 pairs so plenty too see

Your scope is a good model and will show you plenty of objects.

The most important thing is to use the scope and enjoy it.

The advice from GrumpiusMaximus is spot on.

cheers

Ian

[Vinnyvent84]

On 29/12/2023 at 19:13, Dr Strange said:

Hey mate

Happy belated Christmas and happy New Year!

A 6" refractor is the minimum size aperture that you need to see things as a beginner. I too am in Bortle 8 skies. I used to own the 8SE. The 2" increase in size do make a difference in Bortle 8 skies but not significantly. You really need to go up 3 inches or more to see a very noticeable difference with a reflector (reflectors have mirrors in them. Refractors have lenses). That said the 6SE will do fine. Everything is going to be faint and fuzzy balls of cotton except for star clusters, the moon and planets anyway. 

Having said that aperture is going to be king so if you have the funds and think you will stick with it, then get the 8SE. It is not under mounted. There may be some vibrations when you focus by that can be easily mitigated with Vibration Suppression Pads. There are ones made by Celestron that work very well. 

The real key is going to be the StarSense (SS). It will make things easier to work with after you get it dialed in. The key will be dialing it in. First you are going to want to make sure the red dot finder (RDF) is lined up with the telescope as best as possible. Ideally pick something that is easily seen about 20 miles from you and line it up on that. It can be a tree or anything else. Start by putting it in the scope then adjusting the RDF so that it too lines up. Then you will have to run the SS for the first time. It will be way off. Do the calibration process. As a part of it find a bright star in your night sky, Capella is a good one this time of year and so is Betelgeuse, and move the mount so that it is in the RDF which is now aligned to the telescope. Then finish the calibration process. After that the SS will align the telescope for you.

A tip on the SS. The Sky Tour is going to give you a bunch of stuff that is either not visible because of ground obstructions or is just not visible. Instead use the option where you can select objects to go to. NGC is the best choice. Go to www.tonightssky.com and develop a observing list. Put in your latitude and longitude as well as the starting time of your observing session and how many hours you are observing. Then select what you want to look at.  Skip Asteroids, Star Groups, and Double Stars (on this one unless you really like looking at Doubles then skip it). Then print it out on a piece of paper. Keep it next to the telescope and use a red light on a head lamp to look at it. Then you can manually put in the NGC number and the scope will go to it. I use a music sheet stand and have a clip on LED light that I put red tape over. The clip holds the paper and the light illuminates it. Red because white will destroy your night vision. 

For a beginner go up to Magnitude 8.5. You will need to strain to see stuff that faint but visual astronomy is just like any other thing you do. The more you do it the more you will see. So do it as much as possible. Another very important thing is you want a comfortable chair to sit on. It isn't for your rear end. It is for your eyes. The more comfortable you are the more you will see. And for your 4 year old you will want to make sure to hold his hands when he looks through the eyepiece as well as possibly help him cover one eye. There is a automatic reflex for that age (and all the way up to adult) to grab the eyepiece or telescope to help steady themselves and you want to prevent that. Also since you are in New York state you will want to dress for the cold. Don't dress like you are going to be moving around. You aren't. You will be sitting and it can get cold quick. I am likely preaching to the choir here but I just thought I would add it.

Some very nice eyepieces for that aperture or the 8" are the Explore Scientific 82 degree ones. I would recommend 14mm or 11mm and 8.8mm or 6.7 mm. The stock eyepiece that comes with the scope is fine for very large stuff but those two will give you much better magnification. The first one is for Deep Space Objects (DSO) and the second one is for planets in really good seeing. 

Speaking of planets the moon is waxing now but will change and looking at it is great fun. Also Jupiter and Saturn are up right now and excellent things to look at. 

Thank you for all the good feedback and tips.  And happy new year and merry Christmas to you!  
 

A couple of things I want to unpack based your response:

1. Do you think the difference is large enough for me to return the 6SE and get the 8SE? It would cost me a 135$ just in restocking fee alone, plus I have to pack it back up again and return it to the store. If it’s a difference that would make someone go wow I definitely see that distinction and it’s worth the headache, fees and added cost then I will absolutely consider doing that. 
 

2. In regard to eyepieces. I still have not had any clear skies to test them out yet. It’s been 85%+ cloud cover since I got it out on Christmas. That being said can my scope take advantage of the 82 degree field of view? And also I see recommended  the 8.8 and 6.7. Aren’t those pretty high mag for my bortle and seeing conditions here in NYC, especially the 6.7? I was considering a Televue Delite 7mm but for this very reason I just stated I held off. If it’s a piece I could use fairly regularly I have no problem spending it but if it’s an eyepiece I’ll use 3x a year then that’s likely another story. 
 

thanks in advance!

[Cosmic Geoff]

It's up to you whether you swap the C6 SE for the C8 SE.  There will be some gain in performance, OTOH it's bigger and heavier, more load on the mount (it's the same mount).

I suggest that you stop fretting about eyepieces till you have used the scope for a while. As we have already pointed out, with a f10 scope, the choice of eyepiece is not critical.   There is no relationship between Bortle and seeing, vs magnification, other than that higher powers may get less use if the seeing is bad. 

[doublevodka]

The best advice I can give right now is don't worry about extra aperture right away, a C6 is a competent scope. There is some handy info about the Nexstar range on www.nexstarsite.com it really helped me out when I had my 4SE.

Even if the weather is not behaving currently (certainly isn't here) get the scope setup indoors, maybe near a window and familiarise yourself with it in the daytime, as mentioned above align the red dot finder, practice focusing on distant objects if possible.

When you do get it outside under the night sky, start off with your 32mm plossl, don't make the classic mistake of going maximum magnification straight away as you will be lucky to find the moon let alone anything else.

Once you have done your alignment with the Starsense system and you are on target, then you can ramp up the magnification, I'd recommend starting with the moon first and try out the 8-24mm zoom, start at the 24 end and work your way down to 8, when you are comfortable with that, then Jupiter is in a favourable position, give that a try, again, switch to lower magnification first e.g. 24mm end of zoom and then up the magnification, Bear in mind the sky conditions can affect the views greatly, so if you find things fuzzy at the 8mm end (highest magnification) then step it back a bit, much better to have a clearer smaller view, than a fuzzy large one.

[jjohnson3803]

On 30/12/2023 at 04:46, lunator said:

When I first got back into Astronomy I lived in a Bortle 8 area. It will impact what you can see but there are still plenty to see. 

The Moon, planets, star clusters both Open and Globular and my particular favourites double stars. I've observed 2500 pairs so plenty too see

I'm in a B7-8 or thereabouts and I'll second the comment on doubles.  I used to think of them as somewhat boring until rather recently, but there's something quite satisfying when I split a close pair.  Enjoy!

[Beardy30]

On 27/12/2023 at 00:01, Vinnyvent84 said:

Good Evening Everyone!

I live in Brooklyn NY (Bortle 8 Zone) and just purchased a Celestron Nexstar 6SE to use with my wife and 4 year old son for Christmas. Of Course, I set the whole thing up, ready to go and nothing but intermittent rain with 85% or more cloud cover since Christmas Eve and probably another 3-4 days 🙄. Needless to say I have been itching to use it but also have now had the time to doubt myself. Should I have spent some more purchased the 8SE? It honestly wasn’t out of the money for the most part, I read the mount is really not capable for the scope with attachments and subject to vibration more then the 6SE, longer time to acclimate to weather, and not nearly as portable ( I will be taking it in and out of yard after each use) and many times I’ve read the difference for visual is extremely minor. But now I’m afraid I should have just got the 8SE, is it just me torturing myself while I wait to use scope?

 

I tried to buy quality eyepieces and equipment to hopefully increase the detail of what I can see. I bought the StarSense auto align and the following eyepieces / Accessories:

1. Baader 1.25 Prism Diagonal 

2. Baader Mark IV 8-24mm Zoom

3. Explore Scientific 2x Focal Extender

4. Celestron X-Cel 7mm (only got it because the store threw it in for free)

5. Televue Plossl 32mm

6. Baader Moon and Skyglow Filter

7. Celestron WiFi Module

8. Celestron Solar Filter

9. Celestron Aluminum Dew Shield

I really am hoping to do mostly Planetary, Lunar and Star viewing the family. It was very important to me for my son to get some good views of Saturn and Jupiter with its belts. Did I totally drop the ball and nothing I have will fit that bill? 
 

I even was debating switching out the ES Focal Extender 2x for the Televue PowerMate 2.5x or the Carl Zeiss 2x Abbe Barlow if people here thought it would make a difference? 
 

I wanted to get a high quality 7mm eyepiece like the Televue Delite but I don’t even know if that’s overpowered for my scope and location and would just provide me blurry images of the planets and moon?

Guess my impatience and frustration with the weather is getting the best of me. Any feedback, help or advice on my concerns and thoughts on my equipment (and possible purchases) would be GREATLY appreciated while I impatiently wait for clearer skies. Thank you!

I’ve had the 8se and I’ve also have a 5” 127 Mak - give me the Mak any day the 6se is a sweet choice and I think you’ve made a good solid investment- this weather though 🙈I have 2 weeks off and it’s done nothing but pour it down and with storms, tornadoes and cloud it’s been miserable 

Edited January 2 by Beardy30

[Dr Strange]

On 29/12/2023 at 17:00, GrumpiusMaximus said:

Strongly disagree.  A 6" refractor would be an absolutely enormous, unwieldy scope that would require significant investment not only in terms of optics but also time and storage space.

Realistically, a beginner can get a good start with a 4" reflector but bigger would be better.  A 6" Schmidt-Cassegrain is more than enough telescope to get started.

I've been using a 5" SCT for years and have recently been having a lot of fun with a 70mm refractor.  The 'minimum' size really comes down to your personal expectations.  If you want to see stars at -16 magnitude then you're going to need something enormous like a 16" truss Dobsonian but if you want to split tricky double stars, you don't need much more than a quality 4" refractor.

It really is a case of horses for courses.  Ed Ting's excellent videos recommend a 6" or 8" Dobsonian (as do many others) and this is a sensible suggestion for many as it covers pretty much all of the visual basics in a relatively affordable package but this is a recommendation, not a rule.  A 6" Schimdt-Cassegrain is a highly capable scope that the original poster will be able to get excellent results with, if a bit of persistance and practice is applied.

Boy is my face red! I meant REFLECTOR not REFRACTOR!  Having owned a 6" refractor, you are right. It is quite large.

[Dr Strange]

On 30/12/2023 at 16:45, Vinnyvent84 said:

Thank you for all the good feedback and tips.  And happy new year and merry Christmas to you!  
 

A couple of things I want to unpack based your response:

1. Do you think the difference is large enough for me to return the 6SE and get the 8SE? It would cost me a 135$ just in restocking fee alone, plus I have to pack it back up again and return it to the store. If it’s a difference that would make someone go wow I definitely see that distinction and it’s worth the headache, fees and added cost then I will absolutely consider doing that. 
 

2. In regard to eyepieces. I still have not had any clear skies to test them out yet. It’s been 85%+ cloud cover since I got it out on Christmas. That being said can my scope take advantage of the 82 degree field of view? And also I see recommended  the 8.8 and 6.7. Aren’t those pretty high mag for my bortle and seeing conditions here in NYC, especially the 6.7? I was considering a Televue Delite 7mm but for this very reason I just stated I held off. If it’s a piece I could use fairly regularly I have no problem spending it but if it’s an eyepiece I’ll use 3x a year then that’s likely another story. 
 

thanks in advance!

 

tl;dr:

Yes, if it is within budget get the 8" over the 6" because things will be brighter, show you more detail, and give you a better view. 

Yes, it absolutely can take advantage of a 82 degree FOV. 

Long Answer:

Having used a 6" SCT and a 8" SCT, the difference is noticeable and gives you a Wow! but not a WOW! In general, my mistake saying a refractor instead of a reflector aside, to get a WOW! you need to go up 3" in aperture at a minimum for a reflector. So from the 6" to a 9.25" SCT or from a 8" to a 11" SCT.

I started with a 8" SCT because, as I said, the difference between it and a 6" was noticeable and did give me a Wow! but where I really saw the WOW! was going from a 8" to an 11" SCT. To put in perspective and going back to 2013 when I was just starting out, Messier 13 (M13) the globular cluster was detectable in the 6" with a very puff of smoke type look to it. In the 8" it was a good amount brighter and individual stars were visible. This from a Bortle 8/9 yard. That is what initially sold me on the 8". Where I really saw the difference was going to a 11" SCT. It looked like someone spilled salt or sugar on a black table. Individual stars were very distinct and very visible.

I am *NOT* trying to convince you to get a 11" SCT! I am just trying to illustrate to you the 2" vs. 3" difference. a 6" or 8" SCT is going to be the sweet spot for observing. Both are portable, both can go in your car and be driven to a dark(er) sky and both will perform very well for you as a beginner and even as an experienced hand. A 11" SCT is much heavier and larger than a 8" or a 6". People will go on about mounting it but from personal experience (I regularly did it and even Celestron technical support will say it) you can put a 11" Celestron SCT on a Celestron Advanced VX mount. It will work fine. If you are super annoyed by the minimal vibrations you will see when focusing then get a set of Celestron Vibration Suppression Pads. This is for visual use not astro photography! 

So if you have the budget and will be engaged in the hobby I would suggest keeping the StarSense, returning the 6", and buying the 8". You will see the difference. 

Regarding 82 degree eyepieces, yes they will perform well in either the 6" or the 8". I would also recommend getting a 2" diagonal for it too. That will maximize the flexibility for you in terms of eyepieces and open up the possibility of 2" eyepieces as well. For example in a 8" SCT a 14mm Explore Scientific (ES) 82 degree eyepiece will give you 0.56 degree field of view,. This compared to a stock 15mm 50 degree Celestron Plossl which only gives you .37 degree field of view. Go to a 30mm ES 82 degree and that goes to a 1.26 degree field of view which is pretty darn good in terms of wide field for a SCT. That said I do not recommend a 30mm ES eyepiece. Unless you also want a heavy bludgeon to beat someone or some animal about the face and head! The largest eyepiece I would recommend would be the 18mm one. So to have a good set of eyepieces  I would say a 18mm, 14 or 11mm, and a 8.8 or 6.7mm 82 degree ones. But start with the 14 or 11mm one.

If you want super wide field of views buy a ES 80mm APO FCD-1 refractor. It regularly goes on sale for $600 (and is on sale now) and can work with the SE mount. In it the 14mm gives you a 1.88 degree field of view. And a 30mm 82 degree eyepiece is regularly $500 but on sale is is $280 so for just a bit more you can get a completely new and complimentary to the reflector scope. Oh and that 80mm can be either used only on the SE mount or it can be mounted on top of the 8". In the case of the latter you will want those Vibration Suppression Pads I mentioned. Oh and the 80mm APO comes with a 2" diagonal that is pretty good too! So that saves you about $180 that you would have spent to buy it separately.

Lastly I would get on the phone with the store you bought it from and request they don't charge you a restocking fee because you are moving to a 8" from the 6". The worst they can do is say "no". And if they do and you want to go to the 8" return it, bite the bullet and pay the fee, then buy the 8" from someone else who doesn't Mickey Mouse you with restocking fees. For example Astronomics or Woodland Hills Camera and Telescope would be an option. You will have to pay the NY sales tax at the end of the year on your personal return because I don't believe that Astronomics or Woodland Hills will charge you NY sales tax since they are both out of state...

I am sure you are absolutely reeling right now at the expense! Overall Astronomy is expensive but compared to other hobbies it is actually not. Furthermore buy once and cry once instead of buying, returning, and buying something else. And I tell She Who Must Be Obeyed (my wife) that it keeps me out of the pubs (bars) which makes her quite happy! 

[Dr Strange]

On 31/12/2023 at 03:21, Cosmic Geoff said:

It's up to you whether you swap the C6 SE for the C8 SE.  There will be some gain in performance, OTOH it's bigger and heavier, more load on the mount (it's the same mount).

I suggest that you stop fretting about eyepieces till you have used the scope for a while. As we have already pointed out, with a f10 scope, the choice of eyepiece is not critical.   There is no relationship between Bortle and seeing, vs magnification, other than that higher powers may get less use if the seeing is bad. 

Actually not that much difference in weight. The 6SE tube is 8 lbs. The 8SE tube is 12 lbs. 

[catburglar]

@Vinnyvent84 If I were you I’d stick with your C6 for a while until you know whether you’re hooked or not…and if you do get hooked which direction you want to go…there are numerous ‘sub hobbies’ within this hobby - visual observing of planets and double stars vs deep sky, imaging of planets or deep sky and observation of variable stars to name a few. They will each have different optimum equipment configurations, so I think it makes sense to learn the ropes, find out what interests you and take it from there.

The 6SE with starsense is a great combination-I had the same a couple of years back. I changed it t for a bigger scope which shows fainter things and has a bit more sharpness on the best of nights, but most nights the views are not massively different. The limiting factor right now will almost certainly be your own ability to critically observe things that your telescope shows you and to be able to tease out details that with experience will come to be obvious. In my view whatever scope you have you’ll spend a lot of time looking for things ‘at the limit’- close double stars, finest planetary details or faintest galaxy or nebula. There are thousands of things in the sky to see and challenge you- so get ready for the challenge, clear skies will come (sometime).

[Beardy30]

5 hours ago, catburglar said:

@Vinnyvent84 If I were you I’d stick with your C6 for a while until you know whether you’re hooked or not…and if you do get hooked which direction you want to go…there are numerous ‘sub hobbies’ within this hobby - visual observing of planets and double stars vs deep sky, imaging of planets or deep sky and observation of variable stars to name a few. They will each have different optimum equipment configurations, so I think it makes sense to learn the ropes, find out what interests you and take it from there.

The 6SE with starsense is a great combination-I had the same a couple of years back. I changed it t for a bigger scope which shows fainter things and has a bit more sharpness on the best of nights, but most nights the views are not massively different. The limiting factor right now will almost certainly be your own ability to critically observe things that your telescope shows you and to be able to tease out details that with experience will come to be obvious. In my view whatever scope you have you’ll spend a lot of time looking for things ‘at the limit’- close double stars, finest planetary details or faintest galaxy or nebula. There are thousands of things in the sky to see and challenge you- so get ready for the challenge, clear skies will come (sometime).

Brilliant advice ❤️

[Vinnyvent84]

On 05/01/2024 at 04:46, catburglar said:

@Vinnyvent84 If I were you I’d stick with your C6 for a while until you know whether you’re hooked or not…and if you do get hooked which direction you want to go…there are numerous ‘sub hobbies’ within this hobby - visual observing of planets and double stars vs deep sky, imaging of planets or deep sky and observation of variable stars to name a few. They will each have different optimum equipment configurations, so I think it makes sense to learn the ropes, find out what interests you and take it from there.

The 6SE with starsense is a great combination-I had the same a couple of years back. I changed it t for a bigger scope which shows fainter things and has a bit more sharpness on the best of nights, but most nights the views are not massively different. The limiting factor right now will almost certainly be your own ability to critically observe things that your telescope shows you and to be able to tease out details that with experience will come to be obvious. In my view whatever scope you have you’ll spend a lot of time looking for things ‘at the limit’- close double stars, finest planetary details or faintest galaxy or nebula. There are thousands of things in the sky to see and challenge you- so get ready for the challenge, clear skies will come (sometime).

Thank you! Funny enough I think I already have become fascinated with EAA. I’ve seen some pics that posters have shown that are stunning the exact scope and mount using a ZWO planetary camera. 
 

Before a camera I have been eyeballing as maybe a birthday gift to myself this summer is a mechanical focuser. I’m stuck because ZWO makes an auto focuser but I would need to buy a mod and do some tinkering. Never worked on a telescope but generally handy so it is a bit scary but not impossible. On the other hand celestron makes one specifically for the scope that’s super easy install but does NOT autofocus. I’m torn which I should get