How do I find dimmer things in the night sky with a 3 inch Dob?

[JackW07]

I just got into astronomy, and I love looking up at the night sky through my tiny little Orion Skyscanner, but there is the caveat that I can never find what I'm looking for in the night sky unless it's Jupiter, Saturn, and the moon. I have trouble finding dim objects even with a sky atlas and other resources. I'm no good at star hopping, but I am trying to learn. 

Do you guys have any other methods of finding dim objects with a 3-4 inch telescope? If so please don't hesitate to tell me about them.

Thanks all

Edited November 19, 2023 by JackW07

[Astronomist]

One thing I shall soon be doing on my 10" dob is fitting a digital level to the tube. This narrows down the search for objects too faint to be seen in a finder or naked eye, as you only need to manually search in azimuth, not altitude. There are 'push-to' kits available, which tell you exactly where to point the scope, but they are fairly expensive and don't fit all models of telescope. Another thing you could try is using a planetarium software on a laptop or phone (with a dim red screen filter) to help you star hop. I find Stellarium to be much more intuitive and easy to use than a paper atlas. Assuming your sky isn't terribly light polluted that little dob ought to show you quite a few of the brighter deep sky objects. Enjoy! 

[ED Splitter]

What targets are you trying to view? some may not be viewable in your scope or you may have seen them and not known what you were looking at. Start by looking up lists of bright deep sky objects. 
try to avoid bright moon nights for you the fuzzies. 
don’t get too worked up about seeking them out. It’s a whole lot of sky to get acquainted with, just cruise the sky and enjoy the experience. You will learn the constellations in no time. 
a relatively wide field of view eyepiece helps to navigate but you need to learn to star hop. 
have you tried the book turn left at Orion? Am sure someone in here is selling a used copy in the buy and sell section. It’s very good at teaching you to star hop. Object one, the Orion Nebula, is now in the sky, the easiest deep sky object to find and probably the brightest. If you don’t have a UHC filter I would suggest you invest in one, seek out a used one from the usual areas either an Astronomik or baader will serve you well. 
If you're reliant on a red dot finder I would suggest you look at a Rigel finder, the 5degree bullseye will assist you in star hopping. Joe jaguar had a good video on youtube that illustrates how they assist in star hopping. 

Happy hunting. 

[wimvb]

With a 3 inch telescope, I would probably go for star clusters, like the double cluster, or an asterism like the Coathanger. Then the brighter galaxies, M31 and try to identify M32. Next the Pleiades and the Orion nebula (a bit early for that).

[Nyctimene]

1 hour ago, Astronomist said:

Another thing you could try is using a planetarium software on a laptop or phone (with a dim red screen filter) to help you star hop

+ 1 for that. I'd suggest the widely used SkySafari app (the Plus version). With it, your device's display can be set to give you exactly the field of view and the number of stars or other objects as will be visible in your scope's eyepiece.  Star hopping is very easy with it (start with an eyepiece, that will give you the lowest magnification); and, as Wim pointed out, start with brighter objects to get some practice and experience. Enjoy the journey, and welcome to the forum!

Stephan

[John]

Assuming that the scope is equipped with a red dot type finder, make sure that the finder really is aligned with where the main scope is pointing.

Using a low power eyepiece (25mm - 30mm focal length) in the main scope can help it to act as the next step in finding things after the red dot finder has got the scope pointing generally at the right patch of sky.

Stick with well known "showpiece" targets with a small aperture scope. You will have more chance of finding these and, more importantly, recognising that you have found them, in the eyepiece !

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by John

[Stu]

The best bet is a decent, well aligned finder. Minimum would be something like a Rigel QuikFinder which gives circles of 0.5 and 2 degrees and makes finding targets by star hopping much easier.

I have a 65mm TAL Alkor and mainly use it for planetary, lunar or doubles but using a finder I am able to locate the brighter deep sky objects successfully.

[Spile]

It’s less about tech but more about getting your brain to see shapes and patterns of stars. Once you are in the right part of the sky averted vision will help but the most important upgrade is a dark sky. Keep at it as practice and patience will pay dividends.

[Louis D]

You could also trying using the SkEye phone app as a push-to finder to help get you in the ballpark.  I mount my phone to my scope and then center a bright star or planet and then realign SkEye to that object.  I still keep a QuikFinder and RACI finder scope on there as well.

[Les Ewan]

The trouble with starter scopes is they tend to be difficult to use especially for starters! Starter scopes also tend to have sub standard finders and mounts -but having said that with  practice and patience in honing your observing skills you will slowly get better results. 

My first view of the Ring Nebula was back in early 70's 1 km from the centre of Edinburgh with a rickety 60mm refractor with undersize 0.96" Huygens eyepieces and barely usable finder. (Common of the era). 

So it is possible to see stuff if you are aware of the the scopes limitations.

When hunting faint objects be aware seeing conditions at the time may not suit the type of object your looking for. Nebulae are not called faint fuzzies for nothing and when conditions aren't good even larger scopes would toil, so on these nights its better to turn to star clusters and double stars instead.

Using binoculars beside the scope can also help in conjunction with the finder in locating objects(remember to use your lowest power eyepiece) . Also the old trick  adverted  vision helps  bring things into view on really transparent nights. These things have to be learned  but it's a skill everyone can achieve with with practice.

 

 

 

 

[Richard N]

Try AstroHopper?

 

[DirkSteele]

As others have said, ensure your finder is accurately aligned with your telescope as a first step.  One technique I think makes star hopping easier is use an app like SkySafari which allows you to define fields of view. In the image below, I have the field of my Takahashi 6x30 finder, 24mm Panoptic in my Takahashi FS-60 and a 7mm Nagler Type 6 in the same scope.

Now start your star hop on a bright star which should be easy to find and use those available fields to plan your hop such that your next target on the path to your intended target is in the field or a nudge while keeping the start point somewhere in the field even if it is the very edge.

 

In the example below, I have centred on Eta Herculis with the finder. The second image shows me placing that same star at the top edge of the finder and that puts M13 almost in the centre of the field of the 24mm and even just in the field of the 7mm.

 

 

Just keep the jumps small until your skill level improves and you will meander your way to objects of interest relatively easily.

[Ed in UK]

Some great advice above and I'd struggle to add to that.

Personally I struggled with Star Hoping but Sky Safari was a game changer for me. 

As well as adding the overlay of your equipment, you can adjust the "Star Magnitude" level to match what you see in you scope which I found useful. Also the App gives you the ability to flip and invert your the map/display so you can get it to match what you see in the scope.

Good luck with it all. 👍

 

[Richard N]

Star hopping is a skill that comes with practice. I’ve been at it for a couple of years now and there’s still the occasional object that I can’t find. I have a faint double in Sagitta that has eluded me many times. I did suggest Astrohopper. It’s a web based app that runs on a mobile phone. Very clever. Some YouTube videos about it. 

[RT65CB-SWL]

+1 for ‘AstroHopper’.

There is also ‘PushToCam’ if you have an iOS device.

[jjohnson3803]

If you think you have a faint fuzzy in view, but you're not quite sure, you can gently tap the side of your scope.  That should make it more apparent if you're on target.  Apparently human vision / low-light perception is such that we can detect movement more easily than see static objects.

 

 

[Louis D]

24 minutes ago, jjohnson3803 said:

If you think you have a faint fuzzy in view, but you're not quite sure, you can gently tap the side of your scope.  That should make it more apparent if you're on target.  Apparently human vision / low-light perception is such that we can detect movement more easily than see static objects.

I use that same technique to confirm or reacquire comets hidden in the twilight murk.  The latter is needed because I slowly lose sight of them while observing them.  It's bizarre, but my brain just averages them out with the sky glow over time as some sort of background noise to be ignored since it isn't moving or changing.  It's a good thing astro cameras don't behave the same way.

[Bugdozer]

17 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I use that same technique to confirm or reacquire comets hidden in the twilight murk.  The latter is needed because I slowly lose sight of them while observing them.  It's bizarre, but my brain just averages them out with the sky glow over time as some sort of background noise to be ignored since it isn't moving or changing.  It's a good thing astro cameras don't behave the same way.

There's a name for this effect, but I can't remember it. It's a recognised physiological phenomenon. 

[bwj]

Get a copy of "Turn Left At Orion". It includes small scope views, and good descriptions of how to star hop to the target. The sketches are very good for showing what you might actually expect to see in your eyepiece.

https://www.amazon.com/Turn-Left-Orion-Hundreds-Telescope/dp/1108457568/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=57615409113&hvadid=664624581727&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9021369&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=13975443447671385585&hvtargid=kwd-300014588122&hydadcr=29916_14754438&keywords=turn+left+at+orion&qid=1700515594&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1

It's available through lots of other vendors also. It was a game changer for me.

Clear skies!

 

[Spile]

I’ve documented how I star hop here https://astro.catshill.com/finding-dim-objects/

[JackW07]

On 19/11/2023 at 17:08, Louis D said:

You could also trying using the SkEye phone app as a push-to finder to help get you in the ballpark.  I mount my phone to my scope and then center a bright star or planet and then realign SkEye to that object.  I still keep a QuikFinder and RACI finder scope on there as well.

I can’t seem to find this app, do you know where to find it?

 

On 19/11/2023 at 17:08, Louis D said:

You could also trying using the SkEye phone app as a push-to finder to help get you in the ballpark.  I mount my phone to my scope and then center a bright star or planet and then realign SkEye to that object.  I still keep a QuikFinder and RACI finder scope on there as well.

 

[bomberbaz]

7 hours ago, JackW07 said:

I can’t seem to find this app, do you know where to find it?

 

 

Are you using iPhone, could be that

[bomberbaz]

Should have said this is from playstore

[Louis D]

22 hours ago, JackW07 said:

I can’t seem to find this app, do you know where to find it?

 

 

If you're using an iPhone, pick up a used phone with the necessary sensors, but older or with a bad SIM card tray.  You don't need service to use SkEye.

[PeterStudz]

If you have an iPhone I’ve had great success using the PushTo feature in an app called PS Align Pro. You need the Pro version, but at the time it cost me £2.99.

It works-out an offset by syncing on a known target(s). I’ve even used it to locate planets like Venus and Jupiter in daylight too by first syncing on the Sun (solar filter of course). Once setup It’s never failed to find a target in a low power eyepiece.