APM TMB LZOS 130 F/9.2 Triplet Refractor Review

[DirkSteele]

It has been a while since I have written a review (about 2 and half years in fact) but after more than 5-years of ownership (always like to own things for a long time so the view can be very considered, unlike the time pressure of magazine reviews), I have put fingers to keyboard and written a review of what I think is a rather special telescope, the APM (TMB) LZOS 130-1200 f/9.2 triplet apo.

Contents:

·         Preamble (about fate and other such nonsense)

·         Who are LZOS and the APM/TMB Relationship?

·         The history of the TMB LZOS 130 f/9.2 (and some controversy)

·         The OTA 

·         The focuser

·         Details on flatteners and focal reducers

·         The lens

·         What is the Focal length?

·         What is the big deal about this specific model?

·         Under the stars

·         Current Availability

·         Conclusion

 

Quite a long one but aren’t they always when I write them? Review is on the link below (I know talk of controversy has got you all curious so click away!).

 

http://alpha-lyrae.co.uk/2023/10/15/apm-tmb-lzos-130-f9-2-triplet-refractor-review/

 

Hope you enjoy and feedback always appreciated.

 

Clear skies (which I think we could all really use some of at the moment),

Matthew

[Saganite]

Excellent write up which I thoroughly enjoyed reading...👍

[josefk]

Me too. Great read.

On a personal note i do slightly blame you 😉 for fuelling own attraction to refractors over other types of (usually bigger) scopes which on paper are perhaps more rational - your quite poetic descriptions of your view chime exactly with what i wish to see and do sometimes see and enjoy with my own OTAs so other scopes that may be more "rational" and "better on paper" be dammed. Look at those beautiful stars!

 

[John]

I really enjoyed reading your review Matthew. Thank you so much for compiling it and posting the link 👍

Yours is undoubtedly the most comprehensive review of this instrument that I have read to date. 

Yours and my 130mm F/9.2 objectives come from different ends of the manufacturing life of the optic. Mine is from 2006 and yours 2017 from the optical test certificates. Mine is a mid-range .965 strehl whereas yours is in the top tier for the objectives. LZOS measure in green light. As you so rightly say though, these figures are only a small part of the story. In the field (where it matters !) my scope delivers the best pure optical performance that I have experienced from any telescope I've owned / used. 

It would be interesting to know how many of these there are in the UK. I know of one other SGL member who has one (apart from yourself). There are probably a few more out there I guess but they are not a commonly encountered instrument.

Thanks again for the excellent and comprehensive review. I will probably print off a copy to hold with the other documentation I have on these scopes 🙂

Edited October 19, 2023 by John

[DirkSteele]

45 minutes ago, John said:

I really enjoyed reading your review Matthew. Thank you so much for compiling it and posting the link 👍

Yours is undoubtedly the most comprehensive review of this instrument that I have read to date. 

Yours and my 130mm F/9.2 objectives come from different ends of the manufacturing life of the optic. Mine is from 2006 and yours 2017 from the optical test certificates. Mine is a mid-range .965 strehl whereas yours is in the top tier for the objectives. LZOS measure in green light. As you so rightly say though, these figures are only a small part of the story. In the field (where it matters !) my scope delivers the best pure optical performance that I have experienced from any telescope I've owned / used. 

It would be interesting to know how many of these there are in the UK. I know of one other SGL member who has one (apart from yourself). There are probably a few more out there I guess but they are not a commonly encountered instrument.

Thanks again for the excellent and comprehensive review. I will probably print off a copy to hold with the other documentation I have on these scopes 🙂

Thanks, glad you liked it and spotted the quote from yourself near the end.

I know of one other owner, actually a fellow committee member of the Baker Street Irregular Astronomers though he keeps his in Tenerife where he goes several times a year as his wife is from there. I imagine there may be a couple more but that means mid single digit owners of this scope in the UK. Shame there are not more.

[JAC51]

Thank you for a very enjoyable well written review. I actually can add to your single digit figures as I have a 2005 model though I am not the original owner. 

Only thing I can add is to confirm your suspicion of counting craterlets in Plato the most I have seen is 6 though I cannot claim to resolve them merely see the smaller as “albedo?” features. 

John
 

Edited November 20, 2023 by JAC51
Put in wrong year of manufacture 2005 not 2004

[GordonD]

A wonderful read - thank you so much for putting it together. Although I am (not surprisingly) a bit envious  

[Deadlake]

Good write up Matthew, would be ingested to see how the F9.25 compare with the F6 model at some point. 

I always think the F6 model is long enough, but yes the 130 mm / f9.25 is one of a kind and maybe only the TOA 130mm and Zeiss APQ's are the only real match available at a huge price.

How wobbly is it on the Gitzo tripod?

Edited October 20, 2023 by Deadlake

[DirkSteele]

3 hours ago, Deadlake said:

Good write up Matthew, would be ingested to see how the F9.25 compare with the F6 model at some point. 

I always think the F6 model is long enough, but yes the 130 mm / f9.25 is one of a kind and maybe only the TOA 130mm and Zeiss APQ's are the only real match available at a huge price.

How wobbly is it on the Gitzo tripod?

It is pushing the limit of that tripod. It’s ok but once the magnification starts to get pushed something more robust is really needed. I just tend to favour the Gitzo when out and about with the scope as it keeps the weight down of what I have to carry (2.8kg in this case).

[Space Hopper]

Thoroughly enjoyable read thankyou Matthew.

Its always nice to see these rare exotic scopes, and part of me wishes i'd still got one myself.

Lets hope one day they will become available again, either in this form or something similar.

The mount and tripod you have there is holding up surprisingly well considering....!!  

 

[Deadlake]

Well the original price Matthew quoted would in todays money be considerably more.

The 130mm/F6 I have is the same price and in 2021 money around £6500.

A more compact scope with a mere Strehl of 0.98 on the green line.

Talking to Rupert the cost new would be almost double. The lens cells are bought on a fixed 10 year contract and due to cost increases that was the end of LZOS as APM would have too buy a fixed amount per year. Not even going near the current situation.

The only comparable European scopes I can find are Zeiss APQ here 

https://apq.de/en/products/uni_polychromats.htm

Which are at *new* LZOS prices.

A bit like houses everyone priced out…

Edited October 20, 2023 by Deadlake

[DirkSteele]

4 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Well the original price Matthew quoted would in todays money be considerably more.

The 130mm/F6 I have is the same price and in 2021 money around £6500.

Talking to Rupert the cost new would be almost double. The lens cells are bought on a fixed 10 year contract and due to cost increases that was the end of LZOS as APM would have too buy a fixed amount per year. Not even going near the current situation.

The only comparable European scopes I can find are Zeiss APQ here 

https://apq.de/en/products/uni_polychromats.htm

Which are at *new* LZOS prices.

A bit like houses everyone priced out…

Wow, look how far those correction graphs showing theoretical strehl to wavelength go into the UV and near IR! “Price on application.” If you have to ask….

[John]

For interest, this document is the specification that APM gave LZOS for the objectives. It is in the public domain (APM post it on their website) so it's not breaking any confidentiality:

APMApo-Linsen-Spezifikationen.pdf

My understanding is that LZOS supply the individual objective testing data to APM to demonstrate that they meet the specification. APM choose to include them with scopes and objectives when they are sold.

In the past I've seen independent tests of LZOS objectives which have matched or (more usually) slightly bettered the ones supplied by LZOS.

[JAC51]

https://www.astrotreff.de/forum/index.php?thread/95328-vier-apos-von-apm-lzos-vor-dem-interferometer/
The above link is to a 2009 article on a German site where a APM LZOS 130 F9 and a 115 F7 where tested over 9 different wavelengths, with repeats to show their polychromatic strehl

I used the translate option on my browser to read it.

[Deadlake]

10 hours ago, DirkSteele said:

Wow, look how far those correction graphs showing theoretical strehl to wavelength go into the UV and near IR! “Price on application.” If you have to ask….

Well here is another price point

https://www.skypoint.it/en/astro-physics-130-starfire-gtx-ota-apochromatic-refractor-with-rings-and-losmandy-dovetail-plate.html

up 1/3 from last time I was looking at 130 mm scopes.

[MalcolmM]

Really enjoyed reading the review @DirkSteele, as I have all your others. Your reviews have helped/persuaded me on a number of scopes and accessories, all of which are keepers! I like the history section which gives great context and added interest. 

I see from another thread you now have a 100DC; looking forward to a comprehensive review on it 🙂

Malcolm 

[John]

I've recently learned that a colleague at the Bristol A S has an APM/LZOS 152mm F/7.9 triplet. I just need to persuade him to let me have a look though it now, when the clouds allow !

Although the last thing I want to get is "LZOS aperture fever" looking at the current prices 🙄

[DirkSteele]

21 hours ago, JAC51 said:

https://www.astrotreff.de/forum/index.php?thread/95328-vier-apos-von-apm-lzos-vor-dem-interferometer/
The above link is to a 2009 article on a German site where a APM LZOS 130 F9 and a 115 F7 where tested over 9 different wavelengths, with repeats to show their polychromatic strehl

I used the translate option on my browser to read it.

Really interesting, thanks for sharing. Certainly shows how special the 130 f/9.2 is. Considering how many amateurs are hard core optical perfectionists, it is a real shame that more did not realise how good this scope is and purchase one.

 

It has redefined my definition of what optical perfection is.

[John]

1 hour ago, DirkSteele said:

Really interesting, thanks for sharing. Certainly shows how special the 130 f/9.2 is. Considering how many amateurs are hard core optical perfectionists, it is a real shame that more did not realise how good this scope is and purchase one.

 

It has redefined my definition of what optical perfection is.

I'm sure glad that I grabbed mine when it came on the pre-owned market back in 2016. It was being sold by someone that I knew and it was close enough that I could collect it in person. Two big plus points for me 🙂

I'm the 2nd owner of my scope. Custodian might be a better term though 🙂

Edited October 21, 2023 by John

[Deadlake]

Markus is listing this scope on CN

APM - Teleskop APO FPL 53 Refraktor 130/910 mit 3.7"ZTA APM-130-910-T-3.7ZTA  $ 4890

I suspect it’s a Japanese sourced lens to replace the LZOS. 
No more news as yet.

[DirkSteele]

19 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Markus is listing this scope on CN

APM - Teleskop APO FPL 53 Refraktor 130/910 mit 3.7"ZTA APM-130-910-T-3.7ZTA  $ 4890

I suspect it’s a Japanese sourced lens to replace the LZOS. 
No more news as yet.

Is that in the Vendor forum?  Do not see it.

[globular]

4 minutes ago, DirkSteele said:

Is that in the Vendor forum?  Do not see it.

I think this is the post...

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/892338-apm-product-pricelist-september-2023/