The 60mm Doubles Project: An invitation to collaborate

[Mr Spock]

Here's the actual sketch. I haven't quite got the hang of:-

• Drawing and writing in the dark
• Drawing with a mouse in PSP

It will come eventually with practise 

 

[Stu]

19 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

Here's the actual sketch. I haven't quite got the hang of:-

• Drawing and writing in the dark
• Drawing with a mouse in PSP

It will come eventually with practise 

 

Sketching is tricky I agree! Even with full daylight, solar sketching is hard. Much practise needed indeed, for me.

[Mr Spock]

Many, many moons ago () I used to draw the moon. These days the faff of having to put reading glasses on and off makes things extra difficult. By time they are on I've forgotten what I've just looked at 

[Gonariu]

I have seen today this thread I have read with great intrest. When I was 16, in 1983, I bought a acromatic 60/700 which I have given later.  Last year I have bought a Bresser vintage 60/900 with which I have seen very well Castor and solved just the  Lyra double-double. I am going to try to partecipate too.

[The60mmKid]

9 hours ago, Gonariu said:

I have seen today this thread I have read with great intrest. When I was 16, in 1983, I bought a acromatic 60/700 which I have given later.  Last year I have bought a Bresser vintage 60/900 with which I have seen very well Castor and solved just the  Lyra double-double. I am going to try to partecipate too.

Welcome to the party! Glad that you're taking part 🙂That sounds like a cool telescope!

[Neil_104]

I'm pleased to report that Izar has now been split. Kinda.

Still not the best sky conditions (high level cloud and fast jet stream), so I may yet have a better view of it. But here's a mock-up of how I saw it last night:

 

I'm glad to say the Powermate is performing admirably and providing some much needed umph for the closer doubles. Rho Her before was just about split at 51x, but at 100x there is a clear split and star colours are much more vivid. This was a lovely sight last night:

[John]

I've been playing with my ED120 F/7.5 stopped down to 53mm F/17 while waiting for Saturn and Jupiter to get into decent positions.

Using 225x Epsilon Lyrae was interesting with a definite "black line" split of the D & C pair and a "touching pair" type resolution of the A & B pair.

I managed to see all 3 components of Iota Cassiopeia although the fainter two stars were really quite faint with such a small aperture.

The Ring and Dumbbell nebulae looked surprisingly clear at  60x magnification and the globular cluster M15 was quite well defined as well.

Izar is the wrong side of my house and rather low just now so I'll try that another time.

Not sure that I would want to do a lot of observing with 53mm of aperture but it's fun now and then 🤔

 

[Neil_104]

So we now have the "Titchy-sixty" and the "Tiddly Fifty-Three" 😄

[The60mmKid]

Finally, a clear night.

There's a lot to love about Lyra. For instance:

• STFB 9 AE, Vega: A gorgeous sight due to Vega's sheer brilliance. The companion is a faint but distinct blue-white dot that is far enough away from the primary to easily detect.
• STFA 39 AB, Sheliak: One of my very favorites. A is bright/intense white, and B is medium/intense blue. The other nearby blue stars are optical companions but nevertheless beautify the lovely rich field.
• STF 2487 AB, Aladfar: A beautiful wide pair. A is bright/intense white. B is medium/pale blue. Shares the FOV with SHJ 289. Revisit with large binoculars.
• STF 2474 AB: One of my favorites. MacEvoy (in CDSA2) calls this a "charming reflection of optical pair STF 2470," which I think is a perfect description. The two are like nearly identical twins. Both primaries are medium/average white. The colors of the secondaries are difficult to discern at this aperture (although vivid and beautiful through a larger scope), appearing maybe pale blue, maybe pale red.
• STF 2351: A beautiful little matched pair... two distinct white/white pinpoints even at 41x, and a nice, clean split at 69x.                                                            
• STF 2466 AB: A 60mm challenge pair. B is only visible with much effort and in moments of steady seeing.

[Neil_104]

Yep, and conveniently most of it is within a few fields of view when using my 17.5mm Morph! I've observed Beta so far, will have a look into some of those others, especially STF 2474 from your description.

Hot on the heels of splitting Izar I got all over-confident and had a go at Delta Cyg, a real challenge for a 60mm I've read. I wouldn't call it a definite split as such (well, not at all really), but I could see an extension of the diffraction ring at the correct PA. Something like this (N up, W left):

 

I also observed Omicron Cyg - that's got to be on a par with Albireo if you ask me - green, gold and white in one FoV 🤩

Also Lambda Cyg - I bit off more than I could chew with this one possibly, but again I could see an extension in the diffraction ring, unless my eyes were tricking me as it had got late by this stage.

[JeremyS]

16 minutes ago, Neil_104 said:

Yep, and conveniently most of it is within a few fields of view when using my 17.5mm Morph! I've observed Beta so far, will have a look into some of those others, especially STF 2474 from your description.

Hot on the heels of splitting Izar I got all over-confident and had a go at Delta Cyg, a real challenge for a 60mm I've read. I wouldn't call it a definite split as such (well, not at all really), but I could see an extension of the diffraction ring at the correct PA. Something like this (N up, W left):

 

I also observed Omicron Cyg - that's got to be on a par with Albireo if you ask me - green, gold and white in one FoV 🤩

Also Lambda Cyg - I bit off more than I could chew with this one possibly, but again I could see an extension in the diffraction ring, unless my eyes were tricking me as it had got late by this stage.

That’s a fine representation Neil. I love the way use captured the diffraction rings. What technique do you use?

[John]

24 minutes ago, Neil_104 said:

Yep, and conveniently most of it is within a few fields of view when using my 17.5mm Morph! I've observed Beta so far, will have a look into some of those others, especially STF 2474 from your description.

Hot on the heels of splitting Izar I got all over-confident and had a go at Delta Cyg, a real challenge for a 60mm I've read. I wouldn't call it a definite split as such (well, not at all really), but I could see an extension of the diffraction ring at the correct PA. Something like this (N up, W left):

 

I also observed Omicron Cyg - that's got to be on a par with Albireo if you ask me - green, gold and white in one FoV 🤩

Also Lambda Cyg - I bit off more than I could chew with this one possibly, but again I could see an extension in the diffraction ring, unless my eyes were tricking me as it had got late by this stage.

Nice work !

Lambda Cyg is a sub arc second separation currently. I can get it with my 130 and 120 refractors and get a touching pair / snowman with my 100. No joy in anything smaller though, for me. Well, maybe some elongation of the airy disk in the right direction !

Edited September 6, 2023 by John

[Neil_104]

13 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

What technique do you use?

Believe it or not I used Powerpoint. When adding shapes it snaps them to a grid so you can align stuff easily. From there I just add circles and play about with the various shape formatting options until it represents my sketch made at the scope. It's very fiddly but worth it, and they print out pretty good as well. I wanted to get some kind of visual representation to add to my written notes as I find it a lot easier to remember the view then. And I can't draw for toffee!

[The60mmKid]

2 hours ago, Neil_104 said:

Yep, and conveniently most of it is within a few fields of view when using my 17.5mm Morph! I've observed Beta so far, will have a look into some of those others, especially STF 2474 from your description.

Hot on the heels of splitting Izar I got all over-confident and had a go at Delta Cyg, a real challenge for a 60mm I've read. I wouldn't call it a definite split as such (well, not at all really), but I could see an extension of the diffraction ring at the correct PA. Something like this (N up, W left):

 

I also observed Omicron Cyg - that's got to be on a par with Albireo if you ask me - green, gold and white in one FoV 🤩

Also Lambda Cyg - I bit off more than I could chew with this one possibly, but again I could see an extension in the diffraction ring, unless my eyes were tricking me as it had got late by this stage.

Very nice!

I am curious whether anyone has managed to convincingly resolve Del Cyg with a 60mm scope. I've tried many times and haven't been able to pull it off. I can sometimes detect what I think is a slight bump on the diffraction ring, but that doesn't feel like enough to convince me that I've resolved it. A lovely sight in larger scopes, though...

And I agree re: Omi Cyg. What a stunning asterism. I "discovered" it through 10x50 binoculars shortly after I'd just started observing, and I still find it as beautiful now. I think it's one of those objects that looks best through a smaller instrument.

 

On an unrelated note: I'm surprised that Eps Dra, Tyl, hasn't come up on this thread (apart from my previous mention of it). It's an unsung hero. Here's my public endorsement of Tyl: a highly recommended showcase pair to admire during your next doubles session. Please report back 😎

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by The60mmKid

[John]

I'll give Delta Cygni a try with my stopped down ED53mm F/17 when I'm next out. It's been very cloudy here tonight.

I can split it with my 70mm.

Edited September 7, 2023 by John

[Nik271]

10 hours ago, The60mmKid said:

On an unrelated note: I'm surprised that Eps Dra, Tyl, hasn't come up on this thread (apart from my previous mention of it). It's an unsung hero. Here's my public endorsement of Tyl: a highly recommended showcase pair to admire during your next doubles session. Please report back 😎

 

I don't think I have observed Eps Draconis at all. With 3.5'' separation and 3 magnitudes difference looks challenging in a small scope.  I will stop my 70mm  frac to 60mm and give it a try the next clear night. It is very well placed overhead in early evening.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Nik271

[Neil_104]

Eps Dra sounds good - will check it out also on the next clear night. I thought today was looking more promising than yesterday for a clear evening, but it's a no go unfortunately.

[Nik271]

I managed to see Eps Dra last evening at 10pm. Despite the hazy sky I got a clear patch overhead where I could see Delta Dra and Epsilon is a quick star hop from it.

I cheated 🙂: used the 70mm aperture first. With 4mm Nirvana (x105) I could not see the secondary, so I put a 3mm Stellalyra giving x140, about the maximum the scope can give. And there it was - a very dim blue-ish blob outside the first diffraction ring of the primary. I put a 60mm mask on the objective and the view became a bit dimmer. I could still see the secondary but it was now a blue shadow over the first diffraction ring.  A very nice pair, I think it is somewhat more challengeing than Izar. My choice of aperture will be 100mm for a more relaxed view of it. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Nik271

[The60mmKid]

11 minutes ago, Nik271 said:

I managed to see Eps Dra last evening at 10pm. Despite the hazy sky I got a clear patch overhead where I could see Delta Dra and Epsilon is a quick star hop from it.

I cheated 🙂: used the 70mm aperture first. With 4mm Nirvana (x105) I could not see the secondary, so I put a 3mm Stellalyra giving x140, about the maximum the scope can give. And there it was - a very dim blue-ish blob outside the first diffraction ring of the primary. I put a 60mm mask on the objective and the view became a bit dimmer. I could still see the secondary but it was now a blue shadow over the first diffraction ring.  A very nice pair, I think it is somewhat more challengeing than Izar. My choice of aperture will be 100mm for a more relaxed view of it. 

Love it. Thanks for checking it out and reporting!

Agreed that aperture helps with this one. I could also keep in mind that my FOA sort of warps my expectations of what a 60mm can/should do ☺️ But for me, the takeaway is that Tyl is a wonderful challenge/showcase double enjoyable through various instruments.

[John]

On 07/09/2023 at 02:14, John said:

I'll give Delta Cygni a try with my stopped down ED53mm F/17 when I'm next out. It's been very cloudy here tonight.

I can split it with my 70mm.

Just tried this. At 53mm / 225x (Nagler zoom at 4mm) I got a large airy disk for the primary star with a very thin and faint diffraction ring and just on the outside of that ring, the faint secondary star. A definite split though. 

This is a very regular spring / summer / autumn double for me though so it helps to know exactly where to look for that dim secondary. No doubts about it in my mind though. A split with 53mm of aperture.

Probably very good seeing tonight so looking forward to Saturn at full aperture with this scope 🙂

Edited September 9, 2023 by John

[The60mmKid]

4 minutes ago, John said:

Just tried this. At 53mm / 225x (Nagler zoom at 4mm) I got a large airy disk for the primary star with a very thin and faint diffraction ring and just on the outside of that ring, the faint secondary star. A definite split though. 

This is a very regular spring / summer / autumn double for me though so it helps to know exactly where to look for that dim secondary. No doubts about it in my mind though. A split with 53mm of aperture.

Probably very good seeing tonight so looking forward to Saturn at full aperture with this scope 🙂

Thanks for the motivation to keep trying! 

[John]

1 hour ago, The60mmKid said:

Thanks for the motivation to keep trying! 

And of course I forgot in the dark to take the aperture mask off and tried Lambda Cygni...... 🙄

 

[John]

With Saturn currently getting a bit misty I have put the aperture mask back on and I'm having a look at Iota Cassiopeia at 225x with the 53mm of clear aperture.

The A-B pair are quite easy. They have a separation of 2.7 arc seconds and magnitudes of 4.69 and 6.9 respectively. The slightly more distant component C is quite hard to see. Just a very faint spot of light at magnitude 8.7 with a 7.4 arc second separation from the A star.

Another one that I'm familiar with using larger apertures, which helps. 

Interesting stuff. Sorry that I don't have a true 60mm available currently though 🙁

Maybe I'll make another aperture mask with a 60mm hole in it 🙂

Edited September 9, 2023 by John

[josefk]

How do you make your aperture mask @John - i'm pretty clumsy for this kind of thing and was having a wonder what i could use myself to join this fun project. I don't have a spare end cap to put a circle drill through - that was my first idea...

I have been eyeing up 2l drinks bottles wondering if i could cut the bottom half off - cut a hole in it - and and paint it maybe?

 

[Mr Spock]

9 hours ago, John said:

Sorry that I don't have a true 60mm available currently though

Now there's an excuse for a FS60 if ever I heard one