Binocular Observing - The Return of Nautical Darkness 20.07.23

[Ratlet]

Last night was a bit of a surprise.  Apps all said no and the met said good luck on getting some clear skies, however a quick peek out the bathroom window at about 23:00 showed some rolling clouds but some nice clear patches.  Not enough for the dob, but with a pair of SV202 10x50 binoculars sitting in the kitchen waiting to be tested I figured it would be worth a quick 10 minutes to check for chromatic aberration.  I had noted some during daylight testing, but I've never looked through a refractor at the stars so I didn't know how it would affect things or if CA in daylight would translate to CA at night.

I also wanted to use my Geoptik astronomy chair as you can apparently adjust it for binocular use.  I'm sure you can, but the first big win of the night was the slow realisation whilst struggling with the strap was that I could just unbuckle it (the strap is a loop with one of those back pack type buckles).  Popped the seat on the lowest rung and gave it a test.  Quite comfortable, although I should have taken the cushion out and used it as a head rest.

Vega was quite prominent so that was my first target.  It was easy to find but hard to focus.  I have no mount and was quite surprised at how hard it was to hand hold the binos.  I think it was perhaps a bit easier to allow a small amount of drift around the target rather than to remain locked in.  I moved Vega around the field a few times and couldn't see any real chromatic aberration, at least to my eyes.  

I was a bit surprised to see Epsilon Lyrae to the top left, but remembered the image is the right way around.  It's was a beautiful split with both stars looking pure white.  I panned around Lyra a bit and just looked at the constellation and the arrangement of the stars.  I've often found it a struggle to relate star charts to what I'm seeing.  With a 5" and 10" reflector you see so much that it makes it hard to put stuff in context.  Not so with binoculars.

Clouds rolled in and were putting an end to play, but I could see The Plough chilling above some flats, I vaguely remembered that one of the handle stars should be a nice double for binoculars and quickly found Mizar.  Having made the split I could swear with averted vision that I could see Alcor without the binos.  The clouds descended here but before they ruined everything I spotted a beautiful orange star.  I struggled to figure out what it was until the clouds cleared a bit and I realised that it was Dubhe.  I'm not sure if I've ever looked at it before, but I really like red/orange stars.  They just seem rare.  I'm not sure how faithful the colour accuracy of the view was but it sure looked good.

By this point the clouds had cleared completely.  The horizon was still quite bright but the zenith was dark.  I swung to Hercules and very quickly found M13.  It was quite faint (compared to a scope) but definitely there and very round.  M92 was a bit more of a challenge, with there not being quite so many bright stars to easily reference to.  M13 looked better to my eyes, but it might have been the lower angle making it more comfortable to look at.

I tried to split Albireo but that I think was wishful thinking.  Maybe if I had something to mount the binos on, but otherwise, I couldn't get a split.  I'm sure I could see a whiff of blue at the edge of the orange though.  I tried a few other objects (M57, M27, M71) but M57 was a complete bust and the other two I didn't really have a size reference to tell if I was seeing a DSO or if I was just seeing some dim, shaky stars that were particularly close together.  Panning from Altair through Cygnus and it is an incredibly busy area and frequently had me questioning if I was seeing something or I was just seeing more stars.

Before I packed up I remembered that M31 was in fact a thing.  Pretty low down (30 degrees or so) but allegedly a large target well suited to binoculars.  Which it was.  This is another target that is hard to put in context when you've only looked at it through a scope but it's honking large through the binos!  It was still in the twilight section of the sky so I'm sure it could be better but was still well worth the look.  From my location I can see it with averted vision on a dark night so I'm looking forward to seeing it with the binos when it is further up.  I got packed up, although the sky still looked very clear (should have stuck the dob out to cool!), in truth the observing chair and the skyscape is incredibly relaxing and if someone had thrown a dust sheet over me I would have fallen asleep.

A decent session and I managed over an hour in the end.  I think the binoculars did well for £80 although I don't have anything else to compare them to and perhaps my shaky grip helped hide any chromatic aberration but I couldn't see any.  The eye relief is 17mm and I could easily use them with my glasses (my old Porros eye relief was too short to use with glasses and without glasses I couldn't get focus) and the focus control is swift and easy to use.  The stars looked good, though I'm not sure I could say point like, mostly due to the shake of hand holding.  I'll look into getting a bracket for them so I can stick them on a tripod.

I know it gets said a lot that the binoculars are the best thing to start with, but honestly they're great even if you've only used your eyes or a scope.  It found it helps provide context to some objects and helps build your mental map of the sky far more easily than looking through the eyepiece.

[bosun21]

I just recently purchased a new pair of Helios Apollo 15x70 binoculars but as yet I haven't had a good clear night to try them out properly. I have only managed to pop out in daytime to set the IF focus for each objective. I don't really want to have stolen glimpses through the gaps in the clouds as I am holding out for a clear night where I can evaluate them properly.

[The60mmKid]

Nice report. Thank you!

I think you can bag Albireo. I split it with 8x42s.

[Ratlet]

10 minutes ago, The60mmKid said:

Nice report. Thank you!

I think you can bag Albireo. I split it with 8x42s.

I think you are right.  I could swear that I could see the blue and orange, but I just couldn't resolve them individually.  It is surprisingly hard to hold binocs still.  Next time I might try panning with them.  It seems easier to slowly move at a steady rate than to try and hold rock steady.

[Epick Crom]

Hi Ratlet.

I'm glad you are discovering the joys of binocular observing! I too have a pair of 10x50mm binos and find them indispensable and showing me the broader context of the night sky.

I also use mine hand held while sitting in an office chair. I find that holding them near the objective lens end provides more stability. Enjoy!

Joe

[Ratlet]

2 minutes ago, Epick Crom said:

Hi Ratlet.

I'm glad you are discovering the joys of binocular observing! I too have a pair of 10x50mm binos and find them indispensable and showing me the broader context of the night sky.

I also use mine hand held while sitting in an office chair. I find that holding them near the objective lens end provides more stability. Enjoy!

Joe

That's a great tip and makes perfect sense!  I'll give it a try next time.

[Coco]

4 hours ago, Ratlet said:

That's a great tip and makes perfect sense!  I'll give it a try next time.

Use a yard brush with an old towel over the bristles, turn yourself into a human tripod...  works with my Helios 15x70's   
I can split Alberio with my 8x40 ED's showing colours nicely. I still need support to do it.

[bosun21]

I gave up with the shaky images and lead arms so bought a tripod with a pistol grip mount. Makes everything so much more comfortable and I can then take in the views without thinking about my aching muscles. Sigh! I must just be getting old.

[NGC 1502]

Great report, thanks 👍  I too find hand holding my 10x50s not so easy.  Seated observing (as you do) certainly helps. Albireo is split in moments of steady hand holding.  With the unaided eye Alcor/Mizar is an easy double for me. From my light polluted back yard M31 is easy even in my 8x30s.

Part of the joy of binocular observing is the “correct” orientation views. A local clubmate, now sadly no longer around, used an 80mm spotter scope also used for birdwatching. Mounted on a steady alt-az and with its angled eyepiece, that too was a great way to observe with its “correct” orientation.

For me my 7x50s are far easier to hand hold than my 10x50s, however the latter give a noticeably more “punchy” view.  The answer to that is perhaps image stabilised binos.  Once at a dark site I used a friend’s 15x50 IS and was blown away by the view and equally blown away when he told me the cost😢

Keep up the good work and let us know what you see👍

Ed.

[josefk]

Spot on session it seems and a nice read. I really enjoy a binocular view of the sky myself (not least for the correct orientation of things as per others). I cannot effectively hand hold even light 10x42's though (not even for effective bird spotting) so always mount binoculars and use a video head on a tall tripod to pan around and up and down. It does take away the freedom for steep sweeping but at lower angles it pays back with all the resolution the bino is capable of. For steep sweeping it is possible to use two legs of a tripod in an "A frame" type arrangement and an old school layback deck chair in such a way where your own head and body act as the third leg of the tripod - a bit fussy to arrange yourself at different angles but effective once you're in position.

[Ratlet]

On 21/07/2023 at 09:09, josefk said:

Spot on session it seems and a nice read. I really enjoy a binocular view of the sky myself (not least for the correct orientation of things as per others). I cannot effectively hand hold even light 10x42's though (not even for effective bird spotting) so always mount binoculars and use a video head on a tall tripod to pan around and up and down. It does take away the freedom for steep sweeping but at lower angles it pays back with all the resolution the bino is capable of. For steep sweeping it is possible to use two legs of a tripod in an "A frame" type arrangement and an old school layback deck chair in such a way where your own head and body act as the third leg of the tripod - a bit fussy to arrange yourself at different angles but effective once you're in position.

I think I'll give that a try once the bino mount turns up.  My carbon fibre tripod can splay the legs fairly wide.  I think I could get it to work with 2 of the legs spread out over the observing chair and the third on screwed right in...

Or the neighbours will think I've completely lost it.

[F15Rules]

Lovely report, thanks for sharing..😊👍.

Your observing pleasure will greatly increase when you can mount your bins, ideally with a trigger grip, but pretty much any kind of tripod and mount will transform what you can see.

Here are some photos of one of my favourite pairs of bins, my old but pristine (1980s I believe) Vixen B4 Japan series porro prisms..they are only 7x50s, but very heavy, and they really do work at their best when supported properly.

They have a 7.3 degree field, are waterproof (probably water resistant would be more accurate!) and have individual focusing for each eye, rather than centre focusing for both eyes.

This latter feature is good for astro viewing, but is not easy to do for each eye whilst they are hand held..a tripod makes this much easier.

The tripod shown below was bought new by me c 10 years ago on Amazon, and was branded Ravelli at that time, although later versions were renamed "Amazon Essentials"..

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-177-cm-Pistol-Grip-Tripod/dp/B01LQX0P8Q

Unfortunately not available at the moment..

The above image does not do the bins justice (my old smartphone camera lens has a crack across it!), but trust me, stars are pinpoint cross the field and contrast and sharpness are  both excellent..

When supported by a tripod your bins will show you a lot of wonderful sights..enjoy!

Dave

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by F15Rules
Photos added

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

Great report Ratlet.

If observing slouched in a chair, the above pistol grip and a very cheap used Manfrotto aluminium monopod works for me. After some practice there's little to no shake with the 10x50s mounted. The combo also works with the 15x70s although they're not so comfy as target altitude increases.

The above was a memorable Orion constellation/m42 session with the 15x70s and the monopod. Perfect.

😀

Edited July 23, 2023 by ScouseSpaceCadet

[Ratlet]

Ach, @F15Rules and @ScouseSpaceCadet yer both banned from my threads!  You're terrible influences! 🤣

Pistol grip does look like the way forward.  My tripod adapter turned up today and it is supposed to be clear so I'll give it a burl.  All going well I'll look at a pistol grip in the near future.  The extra height looks like it will be handy for higher altitude on a reclining chair.

I really enjoyed the binos.  It's not what I thought it was going to be and it's fantastic when you've got a bit of cloud rolling by.

I spent a lot of last year trucking about at x20 with the 130pds and the wide field is brilliant for some targets, like some of the open clusters in Auriga.  It's funny that going into astronomy you think you need all the power in the world, and then you slowly realise that actually no.

I'll need to have a look at the pistol grip, although thanks to long focal length achro fans (ahem) I'm also planning getting one of the Starsense achromats to try that out as well.  Only question is the 70 or the 80mm.  It'll be getting mounted on some spare rings, so the mount will be an afterthought.  

So many decisions...

Edited July 23, 2023 by Ratlet

[josefk]

Hi @Ratlet If you have a future open position re. a gng mount for a 70…80mm scope as well as more imminently considering a pistol grip for binos then I would heartily recommend a video fluid head as a “kill two birds with one stone option” 

I do have a pistol grip available to use  (in my possession for photography) but I hugely prefer using a fluid damped video head for panning binos about. No difference between the two approaches when both are pointed and locked on the target of course. 
 

depending on the scope weight for the 70…80mm scopes you’re considering - a middle of the range manfrotto video head (I use an mv502h) will mount ~4kg very nicely. Great ergonomics with a small scope actually. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by josefk