ZWO Seestar 50

[DaveL59]

4 minutes ago, globular said:

Something for ZWO to fix then.
Was worth a try - sorry it took up so much time.

Not down to you 🙂

I'd planned on trying that anyway just wasn't lucky in the way it works. Not sure I'm that bothered tho with the tablet being a WiFi one so no mobile data it'd have been handy rather than losing internet connection when connected to the S50, such is life tho. I secure my WiFi because lets say I don't have a lot of trust in certain neighbours nearby. Even the wired LAN out to the shed is on a separate vLAN from the rest of the house etc., so if anyone gets to it they can't do much, not even access the internet 😉 

Edited September 30, 2023 by DaveL59

[globular]

24 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

So pretty pointless feature for anyone wanting some security on their network,

Hiding SSIDs really doesn't provide any extra security.  It might stop a casual attempt at joining your network - that will likely be kept out by the key and/or mac address security - but a real hack attempt won't bat an eye at a hidden ssid. 
I used to hide mine years ago - but I don't think it worth the hassle it causes when connecting new devices to bother any more.

[DaveL59]

5 minutes ago, globular said:

Hiding SSIDs really doesn't provide any extra security.  It might stop a casual attempt at joining your network - that will likely be kept out by the key and/or mac address security - but a real hack attempt won't bat an eye at a hidden ssid. 
I used to hide mine years ago - but I don't think it worth the hassle it causes when connecting new devices to bother any more.

true since the router is broadcasting in any case. Worse is that devices will bleat out the auth info if they can't see the router so there's another weak point. I don't find it hard to manage tho since any worthwhile device has the ability to add networks manually where needed, so I just need to ID the MAC and add it to the tables. Admittedly I'm relying on those living nearby not having the tools and possibly the smarts to be able to try much more than a scan and poke. These days most routers are fairly OK in terms of security tho I'll always change any pre-set passwds and ID's. A while back someone nearby had a router that had an open password, was very tempting to change all the settings and lock it down but I didn't bother 😉 

I have changed the default passwd for the S50 tho, since its published openly in the manuals, no sense letting someone else try to connect and mess about with it. That'd also be an attack surface if linked to your WiFi, another reason I changed it but since that ain't gonna work for me its less of an issue for the moment. Others may want to do the same tho.

[globular]

Call your SSID  "InternetFor£10perMinute" and no one will go near it 😉

[DaveL59]

12 minutes ago, globular said:

Call your SSID  "InternetFor£10perMinute" and no one will go near it 😉

Or get the neighbourhood worried by calling it something more sinister (as in some sort of officious law enforcement name lol).

Yeah I may revisit this, set up an isolated vLAN that I can route to from my internal so it can remain open on the WiFi side. Depends tho on if the app can handle being routed to get to the S50. 

[saac]

19 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

Or get the neighbourhood worried by calling it something more sinister (as in some sort of officious law enforcement name lol).

Yeah I may revisit this, set up an isolated vLAN that I can route to from my internal so it can remain open on the WiFi side. Depends tho on if the app can handle being routed to get to the S50. 

Like "Get Your Own Wifi Ya Freeloader"

Jim 

[DaveL59]

2 minutes ago, saac said:

Like "Get Your Own Wifi Ya Freeloader"

Jim 

Get it to display a banner on connecting "thank you, we've now acquired your CC details and relieved you of £5,000 :-)" 😉 

Looking outside just now at the wall to wall cloud, might just spend the evening playing with this one...

Edited September 30, 2023 by DaveL59

[powerlord]

agreed - no security from obscurity. use WPA2. locking down by mac address seems extreme, but fair enough.

I had a nice strong connection last night once I bridged it to the obsy wifi. I will say, it battery looked like only lasting about 2 hours hours - did 10% in 20 mins.. so I plugged it into a powerbank and left it out there, so it used up all the powerbank first before using its own power. that worked fine. I imagine the dew heater uses a fair bit. a wee 13ah powerpack yet it going for 3 or 4 hours. I turned it on at about 8pm I think, and when I turned it off remotely at about 3am, it had drained the powerbank, and was down to 60% or so of it's own. So no probs running it all night easily with a cheap 20 quid powerbank plugged in.

stu

[powerlord]

5 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

Digging around in my camera bits I located a 49mm lens cap that's low-ish profile, lower than most OEM ones at least. Clips in fine, but unfortunately not enough clearance when the moving section returns to park. It'd get almost there but not quite so that idea's a bust.

Also added a bit of copper tape on the sloped corner which hopefully will be reflective enough that I can see roughly where its pointing in near dark, might get some luminous tape if the idea works - could be handy on tripod legs too so as not to trip and stumble about in the dark 🙂 

I suppose attaching a green laser is an option. I mean - standard disclaimer - use with care, don't use when planes around, etc, etc, etc.. but if say demoing it to friends, etc it might make it quite clear where the thing is in the sky that you can then see on the screen ?

stu

[DaveL59]

12 minutes ago, powerlord said:

I suppose attaching a green laser is an option. I mean - standard disclaimer - use with care, don't use when planes around, etc, etc, etc.. but if say demoing it to friends, etc it might make it quite clear where the thing is in the sky that you can then see on the screen ?

stu

yeah that may be a neat add-on but not for me, too many flight paths pass around here and being ex airport manglement that'd certainly not be appreciated by the authorities 😉 

Did you figure out what that +/- button is for at all?

Nothing in the manuals about it and it didn't seem to do anything.

[powerlord]

14 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

yeah that may be a neat add-on but not for me, too many flight paths pass around here and being ex airport manglement that'd certainly not be appreciated by the authorities 😉 

Did you figure out what that +/- button is for at all?

Nothing in the manuals about it and it didn't seem to do anything.

works for me - it's just brightness control of the on screen stack - press it brings up a slider and brighten up or darken view of image (nowt to do with actual exposure shot)

[DaveL59]

1 minute ago, powerlord said:

works for me - it's just brightness control of the on screen stack - press it brings up a slider and brighten up or darken view of image (nowt to do with actual exposure shot)

ah, that's what I thought it might be, seems another tablet format issue with the app then, perhaps. Maybe I should try using it in portrait mode rather than landscape (productivity on the Lenovo). For the WiFi I could see the list but not connect to any where but on the phone it worked as you'd expect, so a difference in the UI handling possibly.

[powerlord]

yeh the app only works in portrait mode. Sounds like something was getting screwed. and on tablet it just runs as a phone app (everything just made bigger), so no real benefit over just using phone.

 

[DaveL59]

6 minutes ago, powerlord said:

yeh the app only works in portrait mode. Sounds like something was getting screwed. and on tablet it just runs as a phone app (everything just made bigger), so no real benefit over just using phone.

 

Yep, just gave it a quick test and bingo, it works as it should in portrait. Oh well, makes the keyboard harder to use that way. Also noted the display that comes up asking for WiFi permissions etc fits where in tablet mode it spilled out the top/sides. Pity the app  doesn't fully handle landscape but such is life.

[DaveL59]

So after some messing about, created a new vLAN, new SSID and the Seestar connects just fine to it according to the app. Thing I don't see the point of with this tho - when you click connect on the app it always asks to open wifi and you have to choose the S50 to connect to or it just does nothing useful. e.g., connect to the same WiFi SSID and you aren't connected to the S50.

Am I missing something here?

Or is the point to just let the S50 see the internet that way so it/the app can go get other useful stuff to display?

If the latter then that's a PITA as I'd have to open that SSID to be able to go out to the internet which I never do for IoT devices (of which I only have CCTV cameras, on another vLAN).

[DaveL59]

Surprisingly cloud cleared for a while so had a play with the new toy, quite impressed tho only ran it for approx 3 mins per target just to get a feel for how it works etc. A bit blowy tho so it struggled here and there, notably on the moon as it got even more gusty. For sure some sort of wind-break would be useful, not so easy to do on an astroturf lawn tho lol.

So here's a few snippy copies from the phone stored jpg's with slight tweaks in MS photo.

Another moon

Gets to be funny when the wind gusts as you take a pic tho 😄

Overall pretty pleased for such short runs, just need some calmer clear nights I think so can do longer on each target.

I noted that my copper tape didn't really help me see where it was aiming and neighbours CCTV kept flipping on which didn't help on some targets. When the filter adaptor arrives I think I'll pop a 49mm lens hood on as that'll shield the objective from stray glare at least.

 

[powerlord]

9 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

So after some messing about, created a new vLAN, new SSID and the Seestar connects just fine to it according to the app. Thing I don't see the point of with this tho - when you click connect on the app it always asks to open wifi and you have to choose the S50 to connect to or it just does nothing useful. e.g., connect to the same WiFi SSID and you aren't connected to the S50.

Am I missing something here?

Or is the point to just let the S50 see the internet that way so it/the app can go get other useful stuff to display?

If the latter then that's a PITA as I'd have to open that SSID to be able to go out to the internet which I never do for IoT devices (of which I only have CCTV cameras, on another vLAN).

I don't click connect. Maybe give it a min to find it.

Now mine is in station mode, when I open the app (I'm on my home WiFi), I just wait a few secs and it finds it and shows its connected.

[DaveL59]

7 hours ago, powerlord said:

I don't click connect. Maybe give it a min to find it.

Now mine is in station mode, when I open the app (I'm on my home WiFi), I just wait a few secs and it finds it and shows its connected.

Yep, got it to work in the end today, had to tweak a few router settings but now finds the S50 and has internet access.

For anyone else wanting to set it up this way: 

It seems the router SSID needs to be unhidden, also you need to not isolate stations on the WiFi else the phone/tablet won't be able to see the Seestar on the WiFi. You can use either 2.4 or 5GHz by making the band selection via the seestar app under device - WiFi. It does say 5 is better as more bandwidth so pick which suits best. 2.4 will have better range but potentially more interference if in a WiFi crowded area (e.g., lots of close neighbours).

I have the MAC address restrictions enabled (added the seestar, phone and tablet to the new SSID) and it works fine, I also bind the S50 MAC to a fixed IP but the phone/tablet float on DHCP since I can use those on other hidden SSIDs on this router.

I'm more accustomed to configure WiFi so that individual stations/devices cannot see each other in the WiFi, you'd never normally set a public WiFi up to allow it for obvious reasons so I hadn't spotted that right away 🙂 

[LDW1]

13 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

Yep, got it to work in the end today, had to tweak a few router settings but now finds the S50 and has internet access.

For anyone else wanting to set it up this way: 

It seems the router SSID needs to be unhidden, also you need to not isolate stations on the WiFi else the phone/tablet won't be able to see the Seestar on the WiFi. You can use either 2.4 or 5GHz by making the band selection via the seestar app under device - WiFi. It does say 5 is better as more bandwidth so pick which suits best. 2.4 will have better range but potentially more interference if in a WiFi crowded area (e.g., lots of close neighbours).

I have the MAC address restrictions enabled (added the seestar, phone and tablet to the new SSID) and it works fine, I also bind the S50 MAC to a fixed IP but the phone/tablet float on DHCP since I can use those on other hidden SSIDs on this router.

I'm more accustomed to configure WiFi so that individual stations/devices cannot see each other in the WiFi, you'd never normally set a public WiFi up to allow it for obvious reasons so I hadn't spotted that right away 🙂 

For the average SS user is all of this necessary and what do you get in the end ?  Its only a smart telescopes data and whatever else is entailed.

[DaveL59]

2 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

For the average SS user is all of this necessary and what do you get in the end ?  Its only a smart telescopes data and whatever else is entailed.

Which part?

If you WiFi connect to the Seestar access point as per the user "guide" you lose your internet connection on your mobile device, unless you have mobile data. Linking it to your home WiFi lets it be connected from your device over the same WiFi, retaining your internet connection. This way the app can get more info on targets to recommend etc. Or perhaps you are a distance from the Seestar so you can still remote control it via your WiFi rather than relying on a direct connection.

If you mean all the security stuff, to each his own. I've worked in sensitive fields so my normal practise is to set things up that way even at home. Keeps my hand in as it were 🙂 

[LDW1]

1 hour ago, DaveL59 said:

Which part?

If you WiFi connect to the Seestar access point as per the user "guide" you lose your internet connection on your mobile device, unless you have mobile data. Linking it to your home WiFi lets it be connected from your device over the same WiFi, retaining your internet connection. This way the app can get more info on targets to recommend etc. Or perhaps you are a distance from the Seestar so you can still remote control it via your WiFi rather than relying on a direct connection.

If you mean all the security stuff, to each his own. I've worked in sensitive fields so my normal practise is to set things up that way even at home. Keeps my hand in as it were 🙂 

I was talking the security end.

[DaveL59]

19 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

I was talking the security end.

well I don't know if anyone else sets their security the same but if anyone runs into the same issues I did then they'll have some pointers on what to check.

I don't like IoT and other smart-but-soon-to-be-dumb devices as they quickly cease to get security updates etc if they ever did and then become a potential security breach. There's numerous CCTV devices for example that got hacked or had trojans in their firmware, in time no doubt those home listening devices like Alexa and the like will also and if on the same network as your devices containing your personal or sensitive data it's all at risk. So for me they only get connected to isolated networks and where possible with no internet access. Not saying my network is impregnable, just putting in barriers to make things harder and keeping any attack surfaces as low as possible.

[LDW1]

26 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

well I don't know if anyone else sets their security the same but if anyone runs into the same issues I did then they'll have some pointers on what to check.

I don't like IoT and other smart-but-soon-to-be-dumb devices as they quickly cease to get security updates etc if they ever did and then become a potential security breach. There's numerous CCTV devices for example that got hacked or had trojans in their firmware, in time no doubt those home listening devices like Alexa and the like will also and if on the same network as your devices containing your personal or sensitive data it's all at risk. So for me they only get connected to isolated networks and where possible with no internet access. Not saying my network is impregnable, just putting in barriers to make things harder and keeping any attack surfaces as low as possible.

Seems to take a bit of the fun, the easy interest out of the SS world but I think the vast majority won't go there, their bank accounts are safe, lol !  But as you pointed out to each their own, I was just curious.

[DaveL59]

13 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

Seems to take a bit of the fun, the easy interest out of the SS world but I think the vast majority won't go there, their bank accounts are safe, lol !  But as you pointed out to each their own, I was just curious.

Maybe but I've reason to secure things as the folks directly next door seem highly dubious to me. In fact since setting up that open SSID with lets say a play on a UK crime agency as its ID looks like someone had a try to connect:

Funny too, having broadcast that ID yesterday eve then turning it off, its back on today and there was a flurry of activity this afternoon and 2 people loading their cars with belongings and quickly departing 😄

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

17 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

Seems to take a bit of the fun, the easy interest out of the SS world but I think the vast majority won't go there, their bank accounts are safe, lol !  But as you pointed out to each their own, I was just curious.

Have there been any security concerns about ZWO's ASAIR, which AFAIK connects in a similar way?