Tilt. am I on the right page here please ?

[powerlord]

So.. with my new 90ED I've been pixel peeping more than I usually do - and, well things were looking a bit off with my image train (90ed, FF or 0.8RFF, spacers, L-ultimate/D2/nowt, asi2600)

Thanks to Siril I had a look at the tilt.. and yes, I appear to have an issue (note: I have also checked individual subs - and those are about the same)

this was after eliminating my EFW and assorted spacer - that was even worse (albeit with D2 rather than the L-ultimate above):

 

So.. the fact it's the same in both suggests that it's either the scope (same orientation in both so can't rule it out), or the camera. correct ?

My next step tonight was going to be to swap the camera for my other asi2600. My thinking there being IF it's the camera it should change a lot.. and since my other camera, currently on my 200 newt is giving this result (below) which is good enough that I would call it 'level enough for me'.. I'd expect the tilt to disappear to the levels below if its the camera?

I could then pursue trying to level the offending camera to remove tilt knowing I had the correct suspect.

does this sound like a plan ?

what with clear nights being like hen's teeth at the moment I want to try and get it done.

my plan was - take a 30 second sub, load into siril, view tilt... try to work out which side I need to adjust (50./50 chance)... make an adjustment on the asi2600 tilt adjuster...screw it all back up again.. probably find I have to refocus again... take sub.. load into siril, view tilt.. repeat until losing the will to live and/or get success.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by powerlord

[michael8554]

Yes sounds like a plan.

To save changing cameras:

If you rotate just the suspect camera 90 degrees and the left side still has the higher figures then it's the camera.

Michael

[Gary Clayton]

I have also just spent some time adjusting the tilt on my setup which comes from my camera, and it's a learning curve trying to figure out which origination the camera is in relation to the tilt adapter screws, but in the end I managed to get it reasonable low as not to be to objectionable once the image is cropped out.

Don't expect perfectly round stars in all the corners with an APS-C size sensor though.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Gary Clayton

[SamAndrew]

With the near full moon it's a good time to be tinkering with tilt; I was playing with my FLT91 last night, I think I've narrowed my tilt down to over tightening the camera rotator (I had seen this mentioned before), I see the SM90 has one so it's worth slackening it off to see what impact that has.

My tilt was staying the same as I rotated the camera rotator, which makes sense as the locking screw rotates with it. 

[powerlord]

so the asi2600 has 3 bolts in the end, and 3 grub screws.

I can find no docs anywhere explaining how to adjust anything... are the grub screws push/pull or are the bolts in play too - and one set push and one set pull ? and if so- which ?

stu

[powerlord]

ah hold on, it's in the manual I've found.

https://manuals.plus/zwo/asi2600mc-pro-usb-3-0-cooled-color-astronomy-camera-manual

which is utterly useless.

'like a newtonian' - they have a lock and an adjust really, not push pull.

so - which are the locks ? if it's like the newt - the grub screws ?

man stuff like this gets right on my <insert here>. how long would it take to add ONE paragraph explaining which are which here. arg.

Edited April 4, 2023 by powerlord

[Stuart1971]

17 minutes ago, powerlord said:

so the asi2600 has 3 bolts in the end, and 3 grub screws.

I can find no docs anywhere explaining how to adjust anything... are the grub screws push/pull or are the bolts in play too - and one set push and one set pull ? and if so- which ?

stu

You loosen the bolt and tighten or loosen the grub screw, and then retighten the bolt…👍🏻

Edited April 4, 2023 by Stuart1971

[AstroNebulee]

34 minutes ago, powerlord said:

ah hold on, it's in the manual I've found.

https://manuals.plus/zwo/asi2600mc-pro-usb-3-0-cooled-color-astronomy-camera-manual

which is utterly useless.

'like a newtonian' - they have a lock and an adjust really, not push pull.

so - which are the locks ? if it's like the newt - the grub screws ?

man stuff like this gets right on my <insert here>. how long would it take to add ONE paragraph explaining which are which here. arg.

I don't have this camera but use a tilt plate on my 294MC pro and quite similar in operation. I have attached an image of which screws adjust which tilt. 

From memory I think the grubs push (move camera away) and the larger Allen ones pull. 

This may help https://bbs.astronomy-imaging-camera.com/d/14660-zwo-tilt-adapter-instructions-for-use/3

As it says in the link, I also found it easier with the sensor orientation in landscape when looking from behind along to the front of your scope to make it easier which way I was altering it.

Lee

Edited April 4, 2023 by AstroNebulee

[powerlord]

thanks. wish me luck...

[powerlord]

Hmm.. so after a few false starts I confirmed it WAS the camera... and THOUGHT I'd got it a bit better:

But after looking at the subs and intergation this morning, it looks like a corner has went off somehow..so need to try again. sigh.

[AstroNebulee]

Hope you get it sorted soon, it's a right pain when truing to solve tilt, took me months to sort. 

Lee 

[Grifflin]

On 04/04/2023 at 18:26, powerlord said:

so the asi2600 has 3 bolts in the end, and 3 grub screws.

I can find no docs anywhere explaining how to adjust anything... are the grub screws push/pull or are the bolts in play too - and one set push and one set pull ? and if so- which ?

stu

Might also find this link to a CN post useful

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/849141-asi2600mc-pro-tilt-adapter-adjustment-walkthrough/

Neil

[powerlord]

So @Stuart1971 sent me his video on how to do in daylight with laser. And I setup to do that, but in the end - I did something even simpler.

I tested before and rolling it around with the laser bouncing off it, sent the reflective dot tracing a massive eclipse. And was going to do Stuart's process of tracing out the circle, adusting it opposite the largest displacement, repeat, etc.. but I had a better idea:

I just got my set of feeler guages out, and chose a 0.5mm. then I went around and adjusted the bolts so that I could just fit the petal in at the bolts all the way around - my thinking being IF it was good from the factory, that should be it - and I don't want to tighten it right up as then I've nowhere to go if its not level.

So I did that, then did the rolling it around while bouncing a laser of it trick - and the dot stayed put in the same spot now through a full 360 rotation.

job done. took 5 mins in the end.

Obviously if yer sensor truly is wonky inside the casing this will be of limited help other than getting a starter position, but for me it was all that was required - I'd got a good deal on this asi2600 from FLO as a user return and I can only think the user had fiddled with it a lot. As I always use that on moreo wide angle stuff, and I've always had issues with some of those lenses (135mm, etc) - I'm hoping the next time I image there might be a fair emprovement!

However for the next month - it's galaxy season - so the 2 mounts in Oiii have my 300pds monster on, and the C925. show yerself u tiny wee a swirly blobs I know yer out there !!!

[Stuart1971]

2 hours ago, powerlord said:

So @Stuart1971 sent me his video on how to do in daylight with laser. And I setup to do that, but in the end - I did something even simpler.

I tested before and rolling it around with the laser bouncing off it, sent the reflective dot tracing a massive eclipse. And was going to do Stuart's process of tracing out the circle, adusting it opposite the largest displacement, repeat, etc.. but I had a better idea:

I just got my set of feeler guages out, and chose a 0.5mm. then I went around and adjusted the bolts so that I could just fit the petal in at the bolts all the way around - my thinking being IF it was good from the factory, that should be it - and I don't want to tighten it right up as then I've nowhere to go if its not level.

So I did that, then did the rolling it around while bouncing a laser of it trick - and the dot stayed put in the same spot now through a full 360 rotation.

job done. took 5 mins in the end.

Obviously if yer sensor truly is wonky inside the casing this will be of limited help other than getting a starter position, but for me it was all that was required - I'd got a good deal on this asi2600 from FLO as a user return and I can only think the user had fiddled with it a lot. As I always use that on moreo wide angle stuff, and I've always had issues with some of those lenses (135mm, etc) - I'm hoping the next time I image there might be a fair emprovement!

However for the next month - it's galaxy season - so the 2 mounts in Oiii have my 300pds monster on, and the C925. show yerself u tiny wee a swirly blobs I know yer out there !!!

Yes, that would work to get your tilt plate level, but if the sensor is not level in the camera then it won’t help, but you also could have just tightened the three screws right up and you would have had the same result….

The idea I did the video about was actually an idea @ollypenrice showed in a thread on here, and is perfect for cameras with a sensor fitted which is not perpendicular to the front of the camera….👍🏻

[Stuart1971]

2 hours ago, powerlord said:

So @Stuart1971 sent me his video on how to do in daylight with laser. And I setup to do that, but in the end - I did something even simpler.

I tested before and rolling it around with the laser bouncing off it, sent the reflective dot tracing a massive eclipse. And was going to do Stuart's process of tracing out the circle, adusting it opposite the largest displacement, repeat, etc.. but I had a better idea:

I just got my set of feeler guages out, and chose a 0.5mm. then I went around and adjusted the bolts so that I could just fit the petal in at the bolts all the way around - my thinking being IF it was good from the factory, that should be it - and I don't want to tighten it right up as then I've nowhere to go if its not level.

So I did that, then did the rolling it around while bouncing a laser of it trick - and the dot stayed put in the same spot now through a full 360 rotation.

job done. took 5 mins in the end.

Obviously if yer sensor truly is wonky inside the casing this will be of limited help other than getting a starter position, but for me it was all that was required - I'd got a good deal on this asi2600 from FLO as a user return and I can only think the user had fiddled with it a lot. As I always use that on moreo wide angle stuff, and I've always had issues with some of those lenses (135mm, etc) - I'm hoping the next time I image there might be a fair emprovement!

However for the next month - it's galaxy season - so the 2 mounts in Oiii have my 300pds monster on, and the C925. show yerself u tiny wee a swirly blobs I know yer out there !!!

Also when you roll it like you say, the camera and the place where the dot is reflected needs to be absolutely perfectly parallel with each other….tightening the three bolts down all the way is the easiest for you situation, as you do have somewhere to go, as there are three screws so you can always adjust out to any plane, you do not need to be able to adjust inwards at all, as you move the opposite screw out, that does the same thing…..simples….👍🏻

Edited April 13, 2023 by Stuart1971

[ollypenrice]

2 hours ago, powerlord said:

So @Stuart1971 sent me his video on how to do in daylight with laser. And I setup to do that, but in the end - I did something even simpler.

I tested before and rolling it around with the laser bouncing off it, sent the reflective dot tracing a massive eclipse. And was going to do Stuart's process of tracing out the circle, adusting it opposite the largest displacement, repeat, etc.. but I had a better idea:

I just got my set of feeler guages out, and chose a 0.5mm. then I went around and adjusted the bolts so that I could just fit the petal in at the bolts all the way around - my thinking being IF it was good from the factory, that should be it - and I don't want to tighten it right up as then I've nowhere to go if its not level.

So I did that, then did the rolling it around while bouncing a laser of it trick - and the dot stayed put in the same spot now through a full 360 rotation.

job done. took 5 mins in the end.

Obviously if yer sensor truly is wonky inside the casing this will be of limited help other than getting a starter position, but for me it was all that was required - I'd got a good deal on this asi2600 from FLO as a user return and I can only think the user had fiddled with it a lot. As I always use that on moreo wide angle stuff, and I've always had issues with some of those lenses (135mm, etc) - I'm hoping the next time I image there might be a fair emprovement!

However for the next month - it's galaxy season - so the 2 mounts in Oiii have my 300pds monster on, and the C925. show yerself u tiny wee a swirly blobs I know yer out there !!!

I think all this tells us is that, without the tilt adjusters, your chip would have been orthogonal anyway. Somebody, somewhere, chose to use the tilt adjustment to introduce tilt. That's fine, but chips are not always orthogonal and  Stuart's video tells us what to do when they aren't. It seems to me that your version is only simpler because you didn't have a problem in the first place - till someone put one there!

lly

Edited April 13, 2023 by ollypenrice
Grammar. The shame of it!

[powerlord]

that's exactly what I said Olly 'if yer sensor is wonky.. yada yada' !

it's like you didn't read the last but one paragraph. 🤔

As I started the thread, it seemed appropriate that I update on progress. I found Stuart's video really helpful, which is why I built a laser rig. And it allowed me to confirm it was level afterwards.

I think IF you have tilt, doing what I did is a good starting point - then go from there just in case, like me, some previous user has had a fiddle.

stu

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by powerlord