A bit cheeky.

[F15Rules]

1 hour ago, Peter_D said:

And if it's any consolation @Franklin, I also recently sold a Vixen (80mm) achro - it took ages to sell even priced very generously. It just seems the market is getting smaller and smaller for these types of scopes. 

I think you're right..the new generation of visual observers largely didn't grow up with long achromatic refractors.

These days, an F9 scope is seen as "long" or "slow"..when I was young, that would have been seen as quite "short" or "fast", and the common focal length for popular achromats were between F10 (Vixen SP102 for example) and F12-F15 (Unitron, Circle T, Pentax J60/J80).

If you've never looked through a good real long focus achromat, you can't understand how good they can be. The best stellar images I have ever seen (not generated on a Zygo machine or carrying a super high Strehl rating!) were delivered by a Pentax J80 F12 and a D&G 5" F15..by "best stellar images" I mean stars focusing down to the smallest, tightest point possible, with just one, faint diffraction ring around the point..so as much light as possible is going into the central point.

In the case of the above scopes, the lenses were superbly  figured and polished, often finished by hand: the visual result, on for example on Epsilon Lyrae (the double double) or the Mizar system in Ursa Major was like a photograph..ultra sharp stellar points, fabulous contrast and tiny almost invisible single diffraction ring. On nights of excellent seeing, it was like an etching, and the major planets could be exceptional too.

The quality of polish of the objective lenses is very important indeed, and it is much easier to get a good level of polish on a long focal length lens set.

It's true that long achromats can be challenging to mount , but for specialised double star observing a good 80mm F12-F15 will deliver outstanding results. And, because they can be had so relatively cheaply, a bit more money can be spent on a good mount, eg Vixen GPDX and modern fixing hardware such as an ADM mounting plate instead of the older style thin dovetail bar.

I've read of a few of the younger, imaging fraternity discovering the pleasures of visual observing with "old fashioned refractors" recently.

I often see scopes like the Prinz 660 80mm F1200 scope come up for sale for £100 or less. They were bundled with mount, tripod and small 0.965" eyepieces, non of which are up to the standard of the OTA..but if you just take the OTA, fit some decent modern tube rings, a decent mounting plate for rigidity and put it on a GPDX or HEQ5 class mount and tripod, you will have a killer double star and lunar scope!

If you've got this far, thanks for indulging my short wallow in my observing past, and give the humble long achromat a second look..they can't do everything, but what they can do, they are brilliant at!

"Andromeda" -  USA built D&G 5" F15 achromat. Modified 2015 by Moonraker Telescopes (tube shortened by c 130mm to allow binoviewers to be used natively), and Moonlite Focuser added.

Meade 339 80mm F16 rebuilt by Moonraker Scopes with new polished aluminium tube with multiple baffles, long (15"!!) flocked dewshield and 2" capable Crawmach Crayford focuser added.

The same "Moonrakered" 80mm F16 achromat on my Tak EM2s mount and fixed height hardwood tripod..solid as a rock!

Zeiss Telementor 60mm F13 achromat c 1982. Superb small refractor on over engineered tripod/mount ..solid as a rock!

Lovely little 1986 Carton Halley's Comet edition 60mm F12 achromat. Wonderful little portable eq mounted scope..solid as a rock!

Dave

[Stu]

I see there has been a further final reduction in starting bid….. UP to £399 now 🤪

[F15Rules]

On 09/03/2023 at 15:02, F15Rules said:

Well, I see a "Final Reduction"  to £365 now..so that's all right then🥴🤦.

Look, like Stu, I've bought and sold more stuff over the years than I could shake a stick at (mainly on UKABS much more some years ago than more recently).

Overall I very much doubt I have broken even (ask my Bank Manager!), although I did make a bit on some items, often when they left me in a much better state than when I bought them. 

I used to just love trying out different items and buying used allowed me to do this. It also meant I contributed to the wider new AND used market, by helping to enlarge the pool of decent products that were affordable to others, whilst others would upgrade to new product purchases.

I actually bought one of my past Vixen Apos from a "Kit Tester", not having the foggiest idea of what that meant, a guy based in Devon. But the product was well priced (half the original cost) and the transaction was smooth and easy, and I was delighted with that scope. 

When I sold it, I got back around 8O-85% of what I'd paid for it, which after 3 years of ownership and a couple of accessory upgrades by myself, I was well satisfied with. 

So "Kit Testers" per se don't put me off..until I become aware that they are adding on the kind of margins that a bona fide business like FLO can only dream of..and then position a "Final Reduction" as though they are doing buyers a favour!

Dave

Just further to my previous post back in March on the topic of Kit Testers/Traders..

I've noticed in recent months how many ads per week are being posted by the "Kit Tester" who was the subject of the original "A bit Cheeky" thread by Tim @Franklin..

As I subscribe to the automatic notifications from UKABS when new ads are posted, this has become increasingly annoying: if I don't check my phone for several hours, I can often find 20 or more ad notifications waiting for me in my inbox, only then sometimes to find on opening them that 5 or 6 of them are posted by this person..and very often they are just repeats of ads I have seen before, sometimes several times before!🤦‍♂️.

Add to that the waffling, badly spelt content that would do credit to a dodgy car salesman, I decided to contact Paul at UKABS to ask if there's a way to block ads from a particular seller from coming to me.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the reply from Elsie, who owns the site, advised that there is no facility for advertiser blocking, and that the seller in question does pay for the ads he posts,  and that he also adheres to the 3 Day Rule on reposting of adverts.

I want to stress that I have no criticism of Elsie or Paul: they offer a very useful, free service in a niche market, and I have had many successful transactions over 15+ years through the site..and will continue to use it in the future.

For myself I have now unsubscribed from automatic ad notifications: I am pretty happy with my equipment these days, but will look at the ads now and again out of interest  and habit. I heartily endorse UKABS as a valuable resource for amateur astronomers for  buying, selling and trading privately with each other, and with their bona- fide advertisers.

I just thought some of my thoughts might resonate with others. 

Clear skies (one day!!😂😂).

Dave

Edited May 12, 2023 by F15Rules

[Franklin]

On 10/03/2023 at 08:47, Franklin said:

I don't see the A81m on Vixens site anymore

I recently read on the official Vixen (Japan) website that they have indeed ceased production of their 3" F/11 achromatic refractors. This classic telescope has been around since the early 70's and was probably one of Vixen's most popular lines. So if you ever come across an old Custom 80m, SP80m, GP80m or even one of the more recent A80m/A81m, grab it cos there aint no more😢.

[JeremyS]

29 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

Just further to my previous post back in March on the topic of Kit Testers/Traders..

I've noticed in recent months how many ads per week are being posted by the "Kit Tester" who was the subject of the original "A bit Cheeky" thread by Tim @Franklin..

As I subscribe to the automatic notifications from UKABS when new ads are posted, this has become increasingly annoying: if I don't check my phone for several hours, I can often find 20 or more ad notifications waiting for me in my inbox, only then sometimes to find on opening them that 5 or 6 of them are posted by this person..and very often they are just repeats of ads I have seen before, sometimes several time before!🤦‍♂️.

Add to that the waffling, badly spelt content that would do credit to a dodgy car salesman, I decided to contact Paul at UKABS to ask if there's a way to block ads from a particular seller from coming to me.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the reply from Elsie, who owns the site, advised that there is no facility for advertiser blocking, and that the seller in question does pay for the ads he posts,  and that he also adheres to the 3 Day Rule on reposting of adverts.

I want to stress that I have no criticism of Elsie or Paul: they offer a very useful, free service in a niche market, and I have had many successful transactions over 15+ years through the site..and will continue to use it in the future.

For myself I have now unsubscribed from automatic ad notifications: I am pretty happy with my equipment these days, but will look at the ads now and again out of interest  and habit. I heartily endorse UKABS as a valuable resource for amateur astronomers for  buying, selling and trading privately with each other, and with their bona- fide advertisers.

I just thought some of my thoughts might resonate with others. 

Clear skies (one day!!😂😂).

Dave

Well at least he’s not on here any more, Dave.

[Coolhand1988]

Hi All

First post here and sorry for bumping this thread,  but this is the second time I have seen something very familiar.

I have been lurking on these forums and others for a year.

I am thinking of getting back into astronomy after a 30 year gap, but not sure about buying brand new products in case the hobby falls flat and wasting a good sum of money.  So the ideal of used items seems the best approach for me ATM.

Last year, I nearly fell into a scam on facebook marketplace for a 6in bresser achromatic and goto mount for £500. Since then, I am on high alert when looking to find used items.

There are one or two very good trustworthy sites in the UK and US for secondhand equipment and I have seen a couple of things that have caught my eye, so I have been doing my research and background on this particular seller online.

This seller is legit and all,  but I've found this seller buys items quite cheap from people, then sells them on up to twice or three times the amount the seller paid for it.

The seller then quotes on other forums sites about equipment worth buying to use for themselfs and getting estimates from fellow astronomers on how much they are worth and then again, buys them and sells them at a higher price. It's not just a couple of times ethier.

As I said, this seller is legit, but from that and your expertise,  should I deal with this seller?

By the looks of these items and a bit of research, they are almost approaching half price from new, so it seems a very good deal,  but I'm quite cautious about  dealing with someone who has a lower moral standard than mine and mostly all amateur astronomers. 

It's nice to make a profit and all, but not by negotiating or buying at a lower price with full intentions of selling the items for a much higher price is just morally wrong in this community.

Apart from all that, I'm really looking forward and hoping to start up this hobby again after 30 years.

There is hardly any change, except CCD digital cameras and EAA now at affordable prices. 

Thanks

 

[saac]

1 hour ago, Coolhand1988 said:

Hi All

First post here and sorry for bumping this thread,  but this is the second time I have seen something very familiar.

I have been lurking on these forums and others for a year.

I am thinking of getting back into astronomy after a 30 year gap, but not sure about buying brand new products in case the hobby falls flat and wasting a good sum of money.  So the ideal of used items seems the best approach for me ATM.

Last year, I nearly fell into a scam on facebook marketplace for a 6in bresser achromatic and goto mount for £500. Since then, I am on high alert when looking to find used items.

There are one or two very good trustworthy sites in the UK and US for secondhand equipment and I have seen a couple of things that have caught my eye, so I have been doing my research and background on this particular seller online.

This seller is legit and all,  but I've found this seller buys items quite cheap from people, then sells them on up to twice or three times the amount the seller paid for it.

The seller then quotes on other forums sites about equipment worth buying to use for themselfs and getting estimates from fellow astronomers on how much they are worth and then again, buys them and sells them at a higher price. It's not just a couple of times ethier.

As I said, this seller is legit, but from that and your expertise,  should I deal with this seller?

By the looks of these items and a bit of research, they are almost approaching half price from new, so it seems a very good deal,  but I'm quite cautious about  dealing with someone who has a lower moral standard than mine and mostly all amateur astronomers. 

It's nice to make a profit and all, but not by negotiating or buying at a lower price with full intentions of selling the items for a much higher price is just morally wrong in this community.

Apart from all that, I'm really looking forward and hoping to start up this hobby again after 30 years.

There is hardly any change, except CCD digital cameras and EAA now at affordable prices. 

Thanks

 

At the end of the day you have two options, buy new or  buy second hand. If you buy second hand you will of course seek to buy at a lower price than retail and if you find a particular seller's price accommodating then  that should be a win for you, after all you agreed to buy!  If you are so concerned to get the best possible price on the used market then you would commit yourself to a long look and wait and indecision.  Only you can decide what is worth to you.  So my advice - if you are content with the price and you have faith the seller is genuine then buy. 

Just a final note - I think people can easily overlook exactly what a retail transaction provides. You are not just paying for the item you are also buying into the confidence and service of the retailer with comfort  that they will do the right thing should you need to get into that discussion. There is a reason why retailers such as FLO are so highly  regarded - they trade on their reputation.  Buy second hand you are foregoing much if not all of that - I guess it all comes down to how risk averse you are. 

Jim 

Edited October 4, 2023 by saac

[Coolhand1988]

Hi

Once Im committed, I will buy my main equipment brand new. 

During Covid, a lot people started this hobby, only to find it wasn't for them after spending a good amount of money on brand new equipment and then try and sell it all.

My first time with astronomy was from 1982 to around 1995. I only stopped because of shift work, long hours and other interest, but I still gaze at the stars once in a while from then and can still recognise certain constellations now.

If that seller price goes lower, I will probably buy it as it will be collection only. But I don't think I stay for small talk knowing what I know.

Thanks