Plus ca change ...

[Deadlake]

14 hours ago, jetstream said:

I have 2 telescopes that are at the top of my heap- the 15"/Ostahowki/Astrosystems and the TSA120. These 2 scopes sure provide views that the others do not. Not that the others are bad its just these 2 sit on the top shelf, and no doubt any experienced observer with good visual acuity would see it.

Your 24” is not in the list, the 15” is easier to get out while the larger scope stays in the seacan?

With the dark skies you observer under you do it need more then the TSAto see some DSO’s.

[jetstream]

7 hours ago, Deadlake said:

Your 24” is not in the list, the 15” is easier to get out while the larger scope stays in the seacan?

With the dark skies you observer under you do it need more then the TSAto see some DSO’s.

I use the 24"a lot, however

The 24" is a great scope but massive, it is fussier regarding collimation and also bouncing it out of the seacan can cause a bit of astig from the sling moving ( a tiny bit). I can get the small amount of astig out playing with the cell. I need to put the wheel barrow handle extensions on to move and take them off to observe. It is obviously much more sensitive to seeing. I also use an 8' step ladder.

For these reasons it is not on my "list"

BUT

The 24" eclipses all my scopes on DSO and when everything is right the views of Jupiter etc show massive detail, more than others. Gearing up for a DSO session and just finishing collimation and with the astig dealt with I pointed it at Jupiter for the heck of it- the view stopped me in my tracks!

This scope opens up great detail in PN's, unbelievable really. It has shown all members of HCG55 and the view of Stephans Quintet through it one night is etched into my mind. You should see the Eskimo nebula in it...

So, while it is a great scope, it is not on my favourite list for the reasons mentioned. Being honest here.

Gerry

Edited February 23, 2023 by jetstream

[Jim L]

On 21/02/2023 at 23:12, MalcolmM said:

Mindful of the many posts and threads asking "which scope should I buy" that end up with us all basically advocating the scope that we own ourselves, I found the following quote by Thomas Romney Robinson, Astronomer and Keeper at Armagh Observatory in 1825. He was researching the best 'Mural Circle' to purchase and install in the Observatory while upgrading the Observatory instruments.

"[I] had the advantage of consulting men who are justly considered the brightest ornaments of Science, and of inspecting the noblest instruments in existence"

And he continues:

"Each observer, as he becomes habituated to his instrument, learns to correct, to avoid, or perhaps to overlook its defects, while he perceives the inaccuracies of other constructions in too strong a light".

I thought this was put brilliantly 

Quote from the book 'Church, State and Astronomy in Ireland. 200 Years of Armagh Observatory' by JA Bennett.

Malcolm 

Malcolm, I hope you don’t mind me borrowing your and Robinson’s quotes from time to time. There are certainly many equipment related discussions where it would be handy to reflect on the perils of confirmation bias, and particularly so when making recommendations to beginners like myself.

[MalcolmM]

1 hour ago, Jim L said:

Malcolm, I hope you don’t mind me borrowing your and Robinson’s quotes from time to time. There are certainly many equipment related discussions where it would be handy to reflect on the perils of confirmation bias, and particularly so when making recommendations to beginners like myself.

I'd be flattered ☺️ Can't speak for Robinson but I suspect he'd be tickled pink to think that he was being quoted 200 years later 😀

Interestingly, he did choose some lemons for the observatory but by all accounts he was a very accomplished visual observer!

Malcolm 

[Alan White]

This is an most interesting thread on all counts and I have just enjoyed reading through.
Many of the points made throughout have connection with me and I nodded as I read them.

I do think many look, few observe is true, its something I comment on to my club each month when I do a talk.
Encouraging folks to be patient, take more than an initial glance and learn to 'see' what is already hitting your eyeball is very critical.
Most kit will reveal the wonders of the universe, clearly some kit reveals slightly more to a trained eye.
Some kit in my book though, gains mythical status over above that which it deserves,
much as said in the OP initial post.

We can all if we so desire learn to observe, some will have finer eyesight and reveal more in the observation than others.
Some will be happy being a tourist and taking a peak and moving one.

In relation to the Denning quote, like so many older quotes, they are of the time and language when made and
when read with a 'present' mindset and values become a bit off.

I do think you need a journey to discover what kit suits you, your location and pocket.

I am sure a Bentley will get me to work as well as my Toyota Aygo does, they are both tools at the end of the day.
But I bet the Bentley owner will crow more about the car than I will, I wonder why that would be......
Oh yes, the OP initial post.

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Alan White

[Mr Spock]

12 minutes ago, Alan White said:

I am sure a Bentley will get me to work as well as my Toyota Aygo does, they are both tools at the end of the day.
But I bet the Bentley owner will crow more about the car than I will, I wonder why that would be......

Neither of these drivers are a problem. It's the Golf GTi drivers who think they are in a Ferrari and believe the rules of the road don't apply to them who are the problem... 😜

[mikeDnight]

On 22/02/2023 at 16:12, jetstream said:

As experience grows and skill developed I think many astronomers realize when the glass theyre using becomes a limiting factor.

@mikeDnight I realize you are a good observer and you also have top glass, the issue I have with the quote is the insinuation that anyone cant become a good observer ie the term "man of small capacity".

That phrase doesnt seem to encourage the fact that skill can be developed ( and no reference to women astronomers)- to me it sounds like skill is a "fixed" quantity in the quote eventhough the following addresses skill:

I dont believe that anyone using the same top glass, under great conditions and with equal "seat time" under the stars will see vastly different features on the moon and planets.

Visual acuity is a factor though -IMHO- and increasing aperture can reveal differences in it.

I have 2 telescopes that are at the top of my heap- the 15"/Ostahowki/Astrosystems and the TSA120. These 2 scopes sure provide views that the others do not. Not that the others are bad its just these 2 sit on the top shelf, and no doubt any experienced observer with good visual acuity would see it.

Just illustrating the difference in glass and not the observer.

Gerry

Hi Gerry,

 W. F. Denning wrote his book way back in 1891. The lack of reference to women was just the way things were back then and certainly not meant to be discriminatory. Personally I believe, when the term 'man' is used in this context, it can quite legitimately be interpreted as meaning male and female.  With regard to the "man of small capacity", that simply points to those who lack the right aptitude, and so the insinuation that not everyone can become a good observer is correct. Lowell, though passionate about astronomy was not a good observer, where as Dawes, who had terrible eyesight was. Though they'll deny it, everyone has the ability to draw, to calculate, to read, but not everyone will be a good artist, or a good mathematician, or a good reader. 

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

and so the insinuation that not everyone can become a good observer is correct.

I believe anyone can become a good observer, it is not a special talent but a learned skill, IMHO.

Btw I got it figured out why you see what you do

I think...

[ollypenrice]

On 22/02/2023 at 15:45, JeremyS said:

Yes, but he bought a Takahashi in the end

Moderators, JeremyS does not exist. He is a robot named ジェレミイ (高橋) which is only ever printed in this specific colour of hospital green.

I have this on the infallible authority of Google Translate and it means Jeremy Takahashi.

lly  

 

[Mr Spock]

9 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

hospital green

Septic green?