Is the Orion Optics 10" a good first telescope?

[Laurus]

So I'm looking at a second hand Orion Optics 10" telescope that's listed for £375, it comes with the following

Orion Europa 10" (250 mm) telescope, + tripod/mount (EQ-3) + 10mm, 25mm, 30mm eye pieces, + Barlow lens + two Moon filters.

Being brand new to this hobby, I'm not really sure if this is a good, bad, or middling deal. Any help would be appreciated!

[Mandy D]

22 minutes ago, Laurus said:

So I'm looking at a second hand Orion Optics 10" telescope that's listed for £375, it comes with the following

Orion Europa 10" (250 mm) telescope, + tripod/mount (EQ-3) + 10mm, 25mm, 30mm eye pieces, + Barlow lens + two Moon filters.

Being brand new to this hobby, I'm not really sure if this is a good, bad, or middling deal. Any help would be appreciated!

You have everything there that you need to get started. A 10 inch Newt is a big telescope and should give great views of most things. The EQ mount could be a bit tricky to learn to use for a beginner and you may be better with a Dobsonian mount, but I think it has been mentioned before that you can set an EQ up to operate in AZ mode which is a lot easier.

Just be sure that you want to handle such a large scope if you have to move it far for observing each time. My first scope was the same size, a Skywatcher 250PX dobsonian mounted Newt and I love it!

Welcome to the group and I hope you enjoy your new hobby. Ask plenty of questions and you will find lots of help and advice, even if we don't all agree which is the best scope!

 

[Ricochet]

OOUK make good scopes but a Newtonian of that size on an eq mount will be a nightmare to use. That mount looks a bit bigger than an eq3 to me but even so I think that scope is probably under mounted. If it was me I would be considering if £375 is a good deal just for the OTA with a plan to build a dobsonian base for it. I would also factor in the cost of a decent 2" focuser which will require cutting a larger hole in the tube. The eyepieces will get you started but you'll soon be wanting to upgrade them. 

[Spile]

I personally would recommend a Dobsonian mount https://astro.catshill.com/why-did-i-choose-a-dobsonian/

[allworlds]

Yeah, I had a smaller Newt on an equatorial mount and it drove me up the creek, I hardly ever used it and eventually got rid of it. This 10 inch is a scope that's high on performance per £ and low on practicality and usability.

You can buy a much more practical Dobsonian mount. Orion Optics sell them, there's probably other suppliers too. Or make one if you have the tools, workspace, and skill (things that I lacked). But whatever mount it's on it's a big heavy scope. Think about how far you'd have to move it from where it's stored to where you observe.

If you'd prefer something ready-to-go, consider a new 6 or 8 inch Dob.

[sorrimen]

10” dobs tend to go around that price, and I would recommend them much more. EQ mounts and newts can put the eyepiece in some pretty awkward positions and they’re just less intuitive to use manually. I really can’t see any benefit to using a manual EQ over alt az apart from being able to track objects on one axis, but tracking on alt az isn’t particularly difficult once you’ve had a little practice. 

That’s all ignoring the fact that the scope is likely very undermounted anyway, so it’ll be a bit of a pain to say the least. 

The eyepieces are basically worthless, and the focuser and finder look awful so the good deal on the face of it is a bit misleading. 

@allworlds presents a good alternative with 6” or 8” dobs. A brand new 8” with a good quality focuser and accessories wont cost you much more than that scope, or just go with the new skywatcher 8” for a few less accessories. Go the used route on an 8” or 10” dob (10” starts to get big so consider your own fitness/strength and where you’ll set up and store it) and you can’t really wrong.

 

Always a safe bet to ask here before buying anything so you’ve done yourself a great help!

Edited October 4, 2022 by sorrimen

[Laurus]

4 hours ago, sorrimen said:

10” dobs tend to go around that price, and I would recommend them much more. EQ mounts and newts can put the eyepiece in some pretty awkward positions and they’re just less intuitive to use manually. I really can’t see any benefit to using a manual EQ over alt az apart from being able to track objects on one axis, but tracking on alt az isn’t particularly difficult once you’ve had a little practice. 

That’s all ignoring the fact that the scope is likely very undermounted anyway, so it’ll be a bit of a pain to say the least. 

The eyepieces are basically worthless, and the focuser and finder look awful so the good deal on the face of it is a bit misleading. 

@allworlds presents a good alternative with 6” or 8” dobs. A brand new 8” with a good quality focuser and accessories wont cost you much more than that scope, or just go with the new skywatcher 8” for a few less accessories. Go the used route on an 8” or 10” dob (10” starts to get big so consider your own fitness/strength and where you’ll set up and store it) and you can’t really wrong.

 

Always a safe bet to ask here before buying anything so you’ve done yourself a great help!

 

5 hours ago, Spile said:

I personally would recommend a Dobsonian mount https://astro.catshill.com/why-did-i-choose-a-dobsonian/

4 hours ago, allworlds said:

Yeah, I had a smaller Newt on an equatorial mount and it drove me up the creek, I hardly ever used it and eventually got rid of it. This 10 inch is a scope that's high on performance per £ and low on practicality and usability.

You can buy a much more practical Dobsonian mount. Orion Optics sell them, there's probably other suppliers too. Or make one if you have the tools, workspace, and skill (things that I lacked). But whatever mount it's on it's a big heavy scope. Think about how far you'd have to move it from where it's stored to where you observe.

If you'd prefer something ready-to-go, consider a new 6 or 8 inch Dob.

 

6 hours ago, Ricochet said:

OOUK make good scopes but a Newtonian of that size on an eq mount will be a nightmare to use. That mount looks a bit bigger than an eq3 to me but even so I think that scope is probably under mounted. If it was me I would be considering if £375 is a good deal just for the OTA with a plan to build a dobsonian base for it. I would also factor in the cost of a decent 2" focuser which will require cutting a larger hole in the tube. The eyepieces will get you started but you'll soon be wanting to upgrade them. 

 

6 hours ago, Mandy D said:

You have everything there that you need to get started. A 10 inch Newt is a big telescope and should give great views of most things. The EQ mount could be a bit tricky to learn to use for a beginner and you may be better with a Dobsonian mount, but I think it has been mentioned before that you can set an EQ up to operate in AZ mode which is a lot easier.

Just be sure that you want to handle such a large scope if you have to move it far for observing each time. My first scope was the same size, a Skywatcher 250PX dobsonian mounted Newt and I love it!

Welcome to the group and I hope you enjoy your new hobby. Ask plenty of questions and you will find lots of help and advice, even if we don't all agree which is the best scope!

 

Thanks for all your responses guys, honestly a massive help. I think I'll pass on this particular one as the general consensus seems to be that it's vastly under-mounted and would be a pain in the backside to use, which I hadn't considered as much as I probably should have!

I have been looking at a couple more today, and have found the following listings, the first being a "Konus Konusky 200" with a motorised mount and several accessories, list price £375 again.

The second being a 120mm Skywatcher refractor that I'm not sure of the exact model, comes on an EQ3-2 mount, list price £275

They both seem a lot more managable and usable in general, but I'm not 100% sure on the refractor, as I'm really looking to get into visual astronomy, not AP. 

If anyone has any opinions on these, or indeed if I should choose the first one over either, that would be fantastic!

[SthBohemia]

1 hour ago, Laurus said:

"Konus Konusky 200"

^ Optical quality is questionable- https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/82700-konus-konusky-200/  The SW looks a better deal apart from having a crappy tripod which probably comes with inherent 'shakes' 😞 

Plus take no notice of the dobsonian brigade, EQ mounts are NOT difficult to use... 🙂 

[doublevodka]

Have a little look here https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?typechoice[]=Telescope-Reflector&titlechoice[]=For+Sale&titlechoice[]=For+Sale+-+Dealer+Ad&titlechoice[]=For+Sale+-+Kit+Tester&minprice=&maxprice= as you wont have access to the for sale section on the forum yet, a couple of examples for you of available dobs

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=191215

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=191623

[Carbon Brush]

Welcome to the hobby.

My first 'proper' scope was an O)rion Optics 8" on EQ5 mount. Not long after I bought a used 10" on EQ5 mount.
It was easy enough to learn this mount type. I had no issues with tube size. But this does need more discussion.

The Orion mirros are usually great quality. The build quality of the tube, focusser, etc, can be basic.

You appear to be looking at scopes from non-astro retailers.
For someone new, who doesn't know the pitfalls of used astronomy equipment, the best advice is a single word. AVOID.
With a conditional that if someone who knows scopes can acompany you, it is reasonable.
Sorry if this is blunt. But I have seen a lot of dody stuff on sale - as well as baragins. But if you are in the dark about what to look for? No pun intended.

All of the scopes shown in your photos are quite a few years old.
If they have been looked after, great. nothing wrong with 'last years model'.
BUT. At the age, newt mirrors may be well degraded. The refractor lens may have fungus.
The tubes paintwork looks nice. But a bit of Mr. Sheen or similar brings up paint really well.
Better to be a pessimist than be helping you next week with discussing the problems.

HTH, David.

 

[Cornelius Varley]

3 hours ago, SthBohemia said:

^ Optical quality is questionable- https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/82700-konus-konusky-200/  The SW looks a better deal apart from having a crappy tripod which probably comes with inherent 'shakes' 😞 

Plus take no notice of the dobsonian brigade, EQ mounts are NOT difficult to use... 🙂 

The Konus 200 looks like a rebranded Skywatcher 200P, which is what Konus do or did.  The ST120/EQ3-2 appears to have no counterweights, so the cost of these will need to be taken into account. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-mount-accessories/skywatcher-counterweight.html

[Carbon Brush]

12 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

The ST120/EQ3-2 appears to have no counterweights

This is what happens when house clearance/antiques people sell telescopes🙄
An illustrastion of why to buy from astronomy sources, whether new or used.

[sorrimen]

4 hours ago, SthBohemia said:

^ Optical quality is questionable- https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/82700-konus-konusky-200/  The SW looks a better deal apart from having a crappy tripod which probably comes with inherent 'shakes' 😞 

Plus take no notice of the dobsonian brigade, EQ mounts are NOT difficult to use... 🙂 

EQ mounts may not be ‘difficult’, but I don’t see any reason for suggesting a beginner gets one as a first visual scope. It’s more work and less intuitive for very little gain. And that’s only compounded with a newt which has eyepiece position problems.

Not to mention you get significantly less aperture for the price when you are sufficiently mounted (think about the mount requirement for a 10” newt!!) hence why dobsonians are so good for beginners! 

[SthBohemia]

Why not open the Buy/Sell section to the 'new members'? On the proviso that they cannot sell anything until requirements are met!

Counterweights are no problem, many within SGL make their own from anything ranging between lathe turned lumps of steel- modified barbells- to fruit salad tins loaded with cement (me) 🙂 

[Stu]

2 hours ago, SthBohemia said:

Why not open the Buy/Sell section to the 'new members'? On the proviso that they cannot sell anything until requirements are met!

We have been round this loop a number of times. When the restrictions are taken off, we always end up with scams of one sort or another. People often use the PM system to make contact for example to bypass the restrictions, so the current rules will remain in place.

Thanks.

[Ratlet]

Personally I would avoid a Newtonian on a eq mount.  I've got a small 130pds on an AZ5 which is fine.  Eyepiece always in a great place, travelling through a nice arc. 

Tried it on my GEM28 once.  Only once. It felt like every time I needed to change target I was rotating the tube or it was at some weird position.

If you are going down the Newtonian route for visual I'd suggest a dob or alt az mount.

[NGC 1502]

As above, for a newbie a Newtonian with an inadequate EQ mount would be a nightmare.  Wobbly and the eyepiece can be in an “interesting” position.

Best buy- a new 8” Dob. Don’t look back, a scope for life. Upgrade the eyepieces for Starguiders, the new price of £55 each is still a great bargain. A new scope has brand new mirror coatings.  The OO Europa is an old scope with crudely mounted secretary, very basic primary cell.

Ed.
 

[Stu1smartcookie]

I think we all assume that using equipment such as an EQ mount is somehow prohibitive and devilishly hard to do for a newcomer to Astronomy  . It may look a complicated set up but in reality when it IS set up its a breeze to use . BUT , i for one favour the alt az design of mount for even more simplicity . The Newt on an AZ mount with the EP staying at a good angle is by far the best reason , as suggested by @Ratlet. 

I know the "Dob Brigade " get a " oh here they go again" reputation , but that design has stood the test of time and its simplicity is its forte , and lets face it , the more people that enter the Astronomy realm ,where the main talking points are what they see rather than how difficult the equipment was to use , the better . 

If we had our first purchase all over again , what would you or i choose ? 

For the record , i probably would choose an 8" Dob . 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Stu1smartcookie

[Orange Smartie]

10 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

I know the "Dob Brigade " get a " oh here they go again" reputation , but that design has stood the test of time and its simplicity is its forte , and lets face it , the more people that enter the Astronomy realm ,where the main talking points are what they see rather than how difficult the equipment was to use , the better . 

If we had our first purchase all over again , what would you or i choose ? 

For the record , i probably would choose an 8" Dob . 

I dislike these kinds of labels (although I note we have been upgraded from "mob" to "brigade", which is progress). My first telescope was on an EQ mount. For visual use, I find the Dobsonian base far more convenient and yes, I would choose a dob again if I was planning to do purely visual astronomy.

[Ratlet]

I'll add that I'm currently using the 130pds for visual, however if/when I star using it routinely for imaging I'll be getting a dob.

[GrantS]

Hi. I appreciate this thread is rather old, but I stumbled across it... I have the Orion Optics Europa 250 (10 inch) telescope from when I bought it new in 2001, exactly as pictures at the top of this thread.

The GEM mount that is pictured above with it is very sturdy and has given me many hours of pleasurable stargazing with it. Nowadays I use smaller scopes but still use it occasionally. I have the optional motor drives added and it can do astrophotography quite nicely. An SLR with an eyepiece adapter/t-ring is able to achieve focus (unlike some other newtonians).

Grant