Bortle 4 now, but possibly moving to London. What would you do?

[BrendanC]

Hi all,

I've been loving astrophotography for the past two years, having moved from an AltAz mount with 130P scope, to guided NEQ6 with 130PDS and modded DSLR, recently started doing a bit of HaRGB too. Mostly DSO - nebulae, galaxies, clusters, but with occasional forays into solar system stuff. However, I may be moving from my nice Bortle 4 skies to London. I'm hoping this doesn't mean the end of my new-found hobby/obsession/passion/interest.

I'd be keen on staying in the OSC camp, simply because mono plus narrowband filters is very expensive and fiddlesome, from what I can see. It's two steps forward whereas I'd rather just take one.

I don't think the DSLR will hack it, so I'm considering upgrading to a cooled astrocam, probably something based on the 294 chip such as the Hypercam 294C Pro Tec, with a dualband filter such as the L-Extreme.

That's the plan anyway. But there are nagging doubts. Mainly:

• Am I on a hiding to nothing trying to do anything decent in London?
• If it is possible, then would OSC with dualband work out, or is mono with narrowband the only way to go?
• Finally, is it worth buying secondhand to make the pounds go further, or should I buy new, and get all the lovely warranties that come with it? Everything else I've bought is second-hand but the camera plus filter would be my most expensive purchase yet and I worry about getting something that dies on me after spending hundreds of pounds on it.

I keep going around these questions in my head and I need some external input!

Any/all comments welcome.

Thanks, Brendan

Edited February 9, 2022 by BrendanC

[Catanonia]

Tough one.

Many people image and post from cities using the lExtreme type of filters with excellent results for the circumstances.

Now don't get me wrong or take this the wrong way, such imagers seem to post images saying "it is possible", but it is clear that the images are no way as good as they would be from a Bortle 4 site.

It WILL be a huge disappointment to you compared to the Bortle 4 you are used to.

Cooled astrocam will do nothing compared to dslr (in grand scheme of things) as light pollution is the problem here for OSC

Mono Narrowband imaging would be my preferred method, but that means moving away from your OSC

So it really comes down to 

• Are you that into the hobby that you will accept anything rather than nothing and move on ?
• Moving to a city WILL reduce your imaging quality massively and you can only plaster over it with filters and other techniques for OSC unless you go mono narrowband

A tough decision

Edited February 10, 2022 by Catanonia

[DaveS]

If you can possibly afford to then bite the bullet and move to mono and NB filters, as narrow as you can afford, 3nm if at all possible. I used to live in West London until I moved here, from Bortle 8 to Bortle 3-ish. I note that Optolong have a 3nm dual band filter coming out soon, so that may give you the possibility of HOO palette with good LP rejection.

@carastro lives in SE London and produces fabulous NB images, but she uses mono camera and NB filters.

Some of the brighter star clusters and globs might be doable in RGB.

[BrendanC]

Thank you both.

Btw, @carastro, I just checked out your profile on the forum to look at your photos, and noticed you were viewing this topic! So, if you have any advice, that would be very much appreciated.

Edited February 10, 2022 by BrendanC

[Flamidey]

17 hours ago, BrendanC said:

Hi all,

I've been loving astrophotography for the past two years, having moved from an AltAz mount with 130P scope, to guided NEQ6 with 130PDS and modded DSLR, recently started doing a bit of HaRGB too. Mostly DSO - nebulae, galaxies, clusters, but with occasional forays into solar system stuff. However, I may be moving from my nice Bortle 4 skies to London. I'm hoping this doesn't mean the end of my new-found hobby/obsession/passion/interest.

I'd be keen on staying in the OSC camp, simply because mono plus narrowband filters is very expensive and fiddlesome, from what I can see. It's two steps forward whereas I'd rather just take one.

I don't think the DSLR will hack it, so I'm considering upgrading to a cooled astrocam, probably something based on the 294 chip such as the Hypercam 294C Pro Tec, with a dualband filter such as the L-Extreme.

That's the plan anyway. But there are nagging doubts. Mainly:

• Am I on a hiding to nothing trying to do anything decent in London?
• If it is possible, then would OSC with dualband work out, or is mono with narrowband the only way to go?
• Finally, is it worth buying secondhand to make the pounds go further, or should I buy new, and get all the lovely warranties that come with it? Everything else I've bought is second-hand but the camera plus filter would be my most expensive purchase yet and I worry about getting something that dies on me after spending hundreds of pounds on it.

I keep going around these questions in my head and I need some external input!

Any/all comments welcome.

Thanks, Brendan

Hi,

 

I feel your pain, it's frustrating.

That said, with a combination of lower expectations and more budget you can definitely pull out great stuff. You could check the youtube channel of Cuiv the lazy geek who is in Tokyo and got some impressive shots with his Rasa and appropriate filters in mono. Astrobiscuit is in London and also getting some good results.

I have no experience with mono and I use a 294 in Bortle 9 with satisfying results (for a newbie) even with 2 hour integration.

If I started from scratch and was experienced as you are, I'd go mono. Downside is the clear skies (weather wise) in London are not exactly abundant so you'd have to be even more patient in mono.

 

 

 

[carastro]

Quote

@carastro lives in SE London and produces fabulous NB images, but she uses mono camera and NB filters.

Thanks Dave,

What a pain, moving from Bortle 4 to Bortle 8/9  

You may be interested to look at a separate website I made for imaging in Bortle 8 (I think I may even have a few more to add since I created it).

https://sites.google.com/view/carastroimaging/home

Feel free to contact me for further info

Carole 

[BrendanC]

Already seen your images and they're really great.  I will most definitely contact you if I have more questions, thank you very much for the kind offer.

It does look like it might have to be fully commit to mono with filters, or consider just solar system, or maybe look into a means of getting out of London on clear nights with maybe a lighter setup.

Or, give up.

 

[carastro]

Some of us try to get to Bortle 4 campsites when there is a clear sky and a new Moon.  PM me if you want to discuss further.

Carole 

[BrendanC]

Ah, well, I've done plenty of camping in the past! In fact I used my old tent as a scope cover until I realised the constant UV had weathered it and it basically fell apart. Will definitely get in touch if/when the time comes. Thanks!

[david_taurus83]

Don't move?!

[BrendanC]

Well now, the thing is, I used to live in London. Then I moved out to the country, about 12 years ago. And, when I retire in a year or so, I'm planning on moving back to London! Because I've had enough time now to realise that. given the choice between culture and nature, for me, it's culture. So, I want the choice of visiting a world-class art gallery/museum/library etc, in the greatest city in the world, for free, even if it means something has to 'give', which is looking like it's going to be the astro, at least in its current form.

[callisto]

Concentrate on planetary/lunar imaging?

It would be very sad if you gave up altogether 😪

Mark.

[david_taurus83]

12 minutes ago, BrendanC said:

Well now, the thing is, I used to live in London. Then I moved out to the country, about 12 years ago. And, when I retire in a year or so, I'm planning on moving back to London! Because I've had enough time now to realise that. given the choice between culture and nature, for me, it's culture. So, I want the choice of visiting a world-class art gallery/museum/library etc, in the greatest city in the world, for free, even if it means something has to 'give', which is looking like it's going to be the astro, at least in its current form.

I'm the opposite. Grew up in rural Ireland with bortle 2 and 3 skies, completely took for granted at the time, moved to the second largest city in the UK when I was 19, and eventually took up astronomy imaging! Go figure!

[BrendanC]

16 minutes ago, callisto said:

Concentrate on planetary/lunar imaging?

It would be very sad if you gave up altogether 😪

Mark.

Is another option, yes, thanks.

 

6 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

I'm the opposite. Grew up in rural Ireland with bortle 2 and 3 skies, completely took for granted at the time, moved to the second largest city in the UK when I was 19, and eventually took up astronomy imaging! Go figure!

Nice one!

 

[StarryEyed]

I've lived in London all fifty five years of my life and astronomy been a blast. Theres plenty of things you can do other than snap snap snap. Do some variable, astrometrics work be a bit more of a scientist and less of a tourist its more demanding and can be more rewarding. eclipsing and exposive binaries will impress you for sure then up to exoplanet hunting. Cant see anything from the city is just wrong you can experience the full monstrous might of the universe if your up for the challenge. 

[BrendanC]

Thank you so much - this post has really inspired me. I honestly hadn't really thought about it from that perspective.

[Catanonia]

1 hour ago, StarryEyed said:

I've lived in London all fifty five years of my life and astronomy been a blast. Theres plenty of things you can do other than snap snap snap. Do some variable, astrometrics work be a bit more of a scientist and less of a tourist its more demanding and can be more rewarding. eclipsing and exposive binaries will impress you for sure then up to exoplanet hunting. Cant see anything from the city is just wrong you can experience the full monstrous might of the universe if your up for the challenge. 

Wise words