NUC's/mini PC's - separate hubs or try to intergrate

[Jonny_H]

Hi all,

This is more to satisfy my curiosity as I have read many conflicting posts across various forums so thought i would ask on here to get everyone's views who perhaps have such set-ups already.

For those who are using NUCs/mini PC's - do you use a separate USB hub or do you try to intergrate as much as you can within the NUC/mini PC? Appreciating that 12V power outputs and dew heater outputs have to be separate 'units'.

For example, in your view(s) is it better to have a NUC and something like a Pegasus Powerbox with the latter taking care of 'everything' (all USB devices, dew heaters, power outputs etc...) or a NUC which caters for all of the USB-related gear and a more simplistic power unit such as the Pegasus powerbox micro which takes care of just the 12V power outputs and the dew heaters?

Curious is all

[Realtimedoctor]

Hi Jonny, 

IT really depends on what you are trying to achieve. 

Most people who go down the mini pc/rpi route, are trying to achieve some sort of automation. Where they can sit in the living room, and vnc/rdp into the computer at the mount. 

However, with that automation comes another headache. Entangled wires, and a mess that just gets bigger and bigger with every equipment added. So people go down the route of either a USB hub at mount and all power cables routed as cleanly as possible. Having said that, using something like PPBA, or PPB hugely simplifies cable management. Which if you are trying to achieve automation reduces a ever lingering disaster of cable snags. 

With a PPBA for instance, things are simplified hugely. I'll give my personal example, I've a PPBA, and Rpi4 mounted on my telescope. I just have one wire going down from my whole setup which is to power the PPBA. Everything else is connected to the PPBA or Rpi4 directly with short cables. 

So it really depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you are going to baby sit your session, then a simple USB hub and dew controller will be the cheapest and simplest way. 

If you want to set everything up, and hit the snooz button on your mind. I'd go down the PPBA or PPB route depending on your usb needs. 

 

Cheers, 

Nish 

[Jonny_H]

11 hours ago, Realtimedoctor said:

Hi Jonny, 

IT really depends on what you are trying to achieve. 

Most people who go down the mini pc/rpi route, are trying to achieve some sort of automation. Where they can sit in the living room, and vnc/rdp into the computer at the mount. 

However, with that automation comes another headache. Entangled wires, and a mess that just gets bigger and bigger with every equipment added. So people go down the route of either a USB hub at mount and all power cables routed as cleanly as possible. Having said that, using something like PPBA, or PPB hugely simplifies cable management. Which if you are trying to achieve automation reduces a ever lingering disaster of cable snags. 

With a PPBA for instance, things are simplified hugely. I'll give my personal example, I've a PPBA, and Rpi4 mounted on my telescope. I just have one wire going down from my whole setup which is to power the PPBA. Everything else is connected to the PPBA or Rpi4 directly with short cables. 

So it really depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you are going to baby sit your session, then a simple USB hub and dew controller will be the cheapest and simplest way. 

If you want to set everything up, and hit the snooz button on your mind. I'd go down the PPBA or PPB route depending on your usb needs. 

 

Cheers, 

Nish 

Thanks Nish,

Have you had any issues with the USBs going through the PPBA? I have seen a number of posts where individuals have said to try to avoid USB hubs etc...hence my question on utilising the USB ports on a NUC or similar and just have a PPB to handle the 12v power output only (and dew heater power).

[scotty38]

I have a Mele mini pc and Pegasus Powerbox and they work brilliantly using NINA.

[Len1257]

I have a NUC on my column and just one USB to the GEM45, then an unpowered hub on top of the scope from the GEM45 saddle hub. Homebuilt dew control and power distribution alongside, again with one power cable.  The latter in 3D printed boxes. The GEM45 USB2 is not the best companion for my ASI2600's USB3 port, I'm still trying to sort out which way of using it works best but if I can't get it 100% then it's just one USB down to the NUC.

Another vote for N.I.N.A.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Len1257

[Jonny_H]

1 hour ago, scotty38 said:

I have a Mele mini pc and Pegasus Powerbox and they work brilliantly using NINA.

I have been looking at the Mele. Looks like a nice size compaired to others and plenty powerful enough if using it just as a 'capture/control' computer.

Out of interest, how are you mounting the two? Do you have the advance or ultimate? Do you use the Pegasus mounting brackets to mount the Mele on top of the powerbox?

Do you power your mount from the powerbox?

Sorry for all the questions

49 minutes ago, Len1257 said:

I have a NUC on my column and just one USB to the GEM45, then an unpowered hub on top of the scope from the GEM45 saddle hub. Homebuilt dew control and power distribution alongside, again with one power cable.  The latter in 3D printed boxes. The GEM45 USB2 is not the best companion for my ASI2600's USB3 port, I'm still trying to sort out which way of using it works best but if I can't get it 100% then it's just one USB down to the NUC.

Another vote for N.I.N.A.

Thanks @Len1257 I am tempted to go down the route of using NINA.

I am using an ASIAir at the moment but lately I have been having issues with connection etc... and I'm slowly but surely thinking that I do not like the idea of being tied into one manufacturers products.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Jonny_H

[Realtimedoctor]

1 hour ago, Jonny_H said:

Thanks Nish,

Have you had any issues with the USBs going through the PPBA? I have seen a number of posts where individuals have said to try to avoid USB hubs etc...hence my question on utilising the USB ports on a NUC or similar and just have a PPB to handle the 12v power output only (and dew heater power).

Hi, 

I've had zero issues with using the PPBA as a hub. It only has 4 ports, but I also have 4 ports on the Rpi and two on my camera. 

So with good cable management, and planning that's all the USB port you'll ever need. 

Cheers 

Nish 

[Jonny_H]

50 minutes ago, Realtimedoctor said:

Hi, 

I've had zero issues with using the PPBA as a hub. It only has 4 ports, but I also have 4 ports on the Rpi and two on my camera. 

So with good cable management, and planning that's all the USB port you'll ever need. 

Cheers 

Nish 

Thanks Nish,

And given your first post above, I assume that you power your mount from the PPBA also?

[Realtimedoctor]

4 minutes ago, Jonny_H said:

Thanks Nish,

And given your first post above, I assume that you power your mount from the PPBA also?

Yes, everything gets it power from the PPBA, including the Rpi. I only have one power cable that tracks up my mount and the scope, to power the PPBA. 

[Skipper Billy]

I have  a NUC mounted by Velcro to an inverted V shaped bracket on my scope. I changed the lid on the NUC for one with two extra USB ports giving 6 USB ports in total and doing away with any need for a hub.

On the other side of the bracket is a home made power distribution box with 8 x 12v power outlets, 1 x 5v and one x 19v (which was for the NUC but I have since found out it runs perfectly well off 12v).

Custom (home) made power and USB leads.

Only one data cable and one power cable down to the ground.

 

 

[Jonny_H]

44 minutes ago, Realtimedoctor said:

Yes, everything gets it power from the PPBA, including the Rpi. I only have one power cable that tracks up my mount and the scope, to power the PPBA. 

Thanks @Realtimedoctor

Thanks also @Skipper Billy nice set-up you have there

All comments have given me food for thought so far, but I will await further responses from the others also.

[Anne S]

1 hour ago, Skipper Billy said:

I have  a NUC mounted by Velcro to an inverted V shaped bracket on my scope. I changed the lid on the NUC for one with two extra USB ports giving 6 USB ports in total and doing away with any need for a hub.

On the other side of the bracket is a home made power distribution box with 8 x 12v power outlets, 1 x 5v and one x 19v (which was for the NUC but I have since found out it runs perfectly well off 12v).

Custom (home) made power and USB leads.

Only one data cable and one power cable down to the ground.

 

 

What model NUC have you got? I'm trying to decide on one for my travel setup. Some of them just have a dc socket but are sold with a 19v mains adapter. I want to run it from my Pegasus micro powerbox. I was wanting an i3 based one if possible.

[scotty38]

3 hours ago, Jonny_H said:

I have been looking at the Mele. Looks like a nice size compaired to others and plenty powerful enough if using it just as a 'capture/control' computer.

Out of interest, how are you mounting the two? Do you have the advance or ultimate? Do you use the Pegasus mounting brackets to mount the Mele on top of the powerbox?

Do you power your mount from the powerbox?

Sorry for all the questions

 

Yes, I have the advanced and the Pegasus brackets fastening the PPBA to the dovetail and then the Mele to the PPBA if that makes sense. I have one of the 25/30A power supplies from FLO and had intended running one cable to the PPBA and then separate power to the mount. When I saw how little current was being taken I powered the mount from the PPBA and have had zero issues.

If you want a better picture or any more info just shout up.

[Len1257]

3 hours ago, Jonny_H said:

Thanks @Len1257 I am tempted to go down the route of using NINA.

I am using an ASIAir at the moment but lately I have been having issues with connection etc... and I'm slowly but surely thinking that I do not like the idea of being tied into one manufacturers products.

I used an Astroberry setup when I first started, liked the EKOS setup a lot, some foibles but generaly user friendly. However although it worked I just had too many problems with the RPi4 stalling and/or wifi issues. Since adding the NUC and running NINA I've literaly had zero issues.

[scotty38]

2 minutes ago, Len1257 said:

I used an Astroberry setup when I first started, liked the EKOS setup a lot, some foibles but generaly user friendly. However although it worked I just had too many problems with the RPi4 stalling and/or wifi issues. Since adding the NUC and running NINA I've literaly had zero issues.

Agreed, NINA is just brilliant, the flexibility especially if you use Beta 2.0, the advanced sequencer and Plugins is immense.

I just added the plugin to send me messages via Pushover too.... My wife is going to love my phone going off at 4:30 in the morning telling me the imaging run completed just fine 🙂

[Skipper Billy]

1 hour ago, Anne S said:

What model NUC have you got? I'm trying to decide on one for my travel setup. Some of them just have a dc socket but are sold with a 19v mains adapter. I want to run it from my Pegasus micro powerbox. I was wanting an i3 based one if possible.

I am not sure of the exact model but its an i5 with 16GB Ram - it came with a 19v power supply but I read somewhere that it runs just as well off 12v so I tried it and it does and has done for well over 3 years without any issues. I use NINA and it is superb.

[Anne S]

I'm looking at the Beelink models. The i3 and i5 ones just have "dc" marked by the power socket. The Celeron ones have 12v. 
 

I've emailed Beelink to ask but they're on holiday at the moment. I also asked a friend who was running a couple of similar ones quite happily from 12v. He checked with an Intel specialist who said they ran on between 12v-19v. It's just not clear on the website I was using.

[Realtimedoctor]

1 hour ago, Len1257 said:

I used an Astroberry setup when I first started, liked the EKOS setup a lot, some foibles but generaly user friendly. However although it worked I just had too many problems with the RPi4 stalling and/or wifi issues. Since adding the NUC and running NINA I've literaly had zero issues.

I've been using EKOS for over 2 years now, and have literally had zero issues. Apart from occasional com port conflicts, which are resolved quickly. I barely can remember a time where astroberry has spoiled my imaging session. I wonder what sort of issues you've had, because I keep reading these and never understand if I've just been lucky. 

Also as you've used both. What do you think NINA adds to the sequencing? Are there any specific functions you find missing from ekos, or things more intuitive to use. 

I've been tempted to get a NUC to give Nina a try, despite not having any issues with ekos. 

 

Cheers, 

Nish

[Len1257]

1 hour ago, Realtimedoctor said:

Also as you've used both. What do you think NINA adds to the sequencing? Are there any specific functions you find missing from ekos, or things more intuitive to use. 

I don't want to add negative comments about the way Astroberry / INDI / EKOS hangs together but I find that NINA is just integrated significantly better. 

You mentioned sequencing, in NINA the Advanced Sequencer is just amazing. The plug-ins feature with multiple contributors is also noteworthy. There are plenty of YouTube videos out there if you want to explore the features. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Len1257
removed some un-necessary comments

[Padraic M]

@Jonny_H I use a set-up similar to @scotty38 - MeLE Quieter2Q fanless PC, PPBA and Nevada Radio 13.8V/30A PSU. Just not as nicely mounted as his! It works really well, including NINA. All USB and power goes through the PPBA. 8GB RAM and 1TB SSD. I like the fanless idea as there's no possibility of vibrations on the OTA, but I haven't heard anyone else complaining about this with cooled mini PCs.

The only issue I have to resolve is that my house wifi is a little delicate. The nearest AP is a powerline adapter that causes issues with all connected devices. With the PC mounted on the OTA I can lose my connection as the mount slews. In fact, anywhere close to metal can cause drop-outs. The best position for me so far is dangling by a cable below the mount....  not ideal. Am considering using Cat6 wired ethernet which would definitely be more reliable.

@Skipper Billy what is the data cable that goes from your mini PC to the ground? Is it Cat6 or is it USB to the mount?

 

[Skipper Billy]

2 hours ago, Padraic M said:

@Skipper Billy what is the data cable that goes from your mini PC to the ground? Is it Cat6 or is it USB to the mount?

Its a Cat5 cable from the Intel Nuc that goes into the house network. The PC in the house is on the same network and I use RDP to control the NUC. Flawless.