Anyone using INDIGOSKY / INDIGO Imager?

[vlaiv]

I finally had time to do some housekeeping and preparation on my imaging gear and I upgraded INDIGOSKY instance that I have on RPI4 and also underlying Raspbian.

Then I noticed that there is now INDIGO Imager available and it seems like very nice remote solution for my use case.

I'll leave imaging rig outside in the yard (AzGTI + ASI178mmc + Samyang 85mm + guider setup + RPI4) and "operate" the rig using INDIGO Imager from the comfort of my study (wifi connection). I've already set up much of this, but since I still haven't used this combo - I wonder how well / glitch free will it work?

It seems to work OK in "in-house" testing conditions - meaning I can slew the mount and so on, but I haven't tried long exposure / plate solving and all other bits - since, well, I don't have night sky in my study (that would be nice ).

Anyone using this or similar combo? All info is welcome.

[Stuart1971]

4 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I finally had time to do some housekeeping and preparation on my imaging gear and I upgraded INDIGOSKY instance that I have on RPI4 and also underlying Raspbian.

Then I noticed that there is now INDIGO Imager available and it seems like very nice remote solution for my use case.

I'll leave imaging rig outside in the yard (AzGTI + ASI178mmc + Samyang 85mm + guider setup + RPI4) and "operate" the rig using INDIGO Imager from the comfort of my study (wifi connection). I've already set up much of this, but since I still haven't used this combo - I wonder how well / glitch free will it work?

It seems to work OK in "in-house" testing conditions - meaning I can slew the mount and so on, but I haven't tried long exposure / plate solving and all other bits - since, well, I don't have night sky in my study (that would be nice ).

Anyone using this or similar combo? All info is welcome.

I used indigo for a while with APT, and it worked well, but currently use INdI with Kstars / Ekos.

Indigo was supposed to be the next generation of INdI, but not sure it actually ever took off as a next generation as INdI seems to be moving much faster due to the amount of people behind it, whereas indigo has a much smaller following…but if you are using a Mac computer then that’s what it was aimed at really…as the imaging applications are Mac based only…AFAIK..

[vlaiv]

4 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

as the imaging applications are Mac based only…AFAIK..

I thought so too and was surprised. Both imager and control panel app have been released as freeware for Windows platform:

I actually downloaded, started imager app and connected to my RPI4 INDIGO server and moved mount with said applications.

[rotatux]

Hi, I'm in a setup process for a recently bought Altair 224C on a Linux netbook. Having driver problems with the cam, so I'm not yet operational enough to be sure. Indigo seams richer (more drivers) and more polished than Indi, with a similar or mostly compatible protocol. AIN Imager looked very nice when I tried it, probably better than CCD Ciel which seems the nearest alternative.

Same problem as you for training in-house without a starry sky. Asking myself if a sky print in front of a lens would trick it 😄

[vlaiv]

Just now, rotatux said:

Asking myself if a sky print in front of a lens would trick it

At some point - I had exact same thought - but using laptop screen instead

 

[Stuart1971]

11 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I thought so too and was surprised. Both imager and control panel app have been released as freeware for Windows platform:

I actually downloaded, started imager app and connected to my RPI4 INDIGO server and moved mount with said applications.

News to me too, it was only for Mac’s last time I checked….👍🏼

[barbulo]

I see INDIGOSKY as an alternative to EQMOD ASCOM and aimed mainly to MacOS and Linux, although you can use the control in any OS through a web browser. 

IMO, the perfect match for the INDIGOSKY server running on a Pi is KSTARS/EKOS in a Mac. That will be my next movement. Some day. Currently using EQMOD ASCOM drivers and APT in a laptop with W10 in the backyard, and remote control from a desktop.

I tried INDIGOSKY server in a Pi from APT in W10 but the INDI-DSLR drivers are not implemented yet in APT. 😢

Another option is to load ASTROBERRY in the Pi (is free and has KSTARS/EKOS installed) and control the Pi from any OS web browser.

Edited November 17, 2021 by barbulo
Meant ASCOM instead of EQMOD

[AstroMuni]

30 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

It seems to work OK in "in-house" testing conditions - meaning I can slew the mount and so on, but I haven't tried long exposure / plate solving and all other bits - since, well, I don't have night sky in my study

I use Kstars/Ekos on laptop connected to INDI server on RPi. With Ekos there is option to test platesolving using an older image so you can test the whole kit inside. Caveat: It will slew the scope but its attempt to platesolve again to check if object in centred will fail

PS: I did evaluate INDIGO but the Kstars/Ekos combo just ticked all the boxes for me. Its stellarium + capture + platesolve + control of mount etc.

Edited November 17, 2021 by AstroMuni

[vlaiv]

4 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

I use Kstars/Ekos on laptop connected to INDI server on RPi. With Ekos there is option to test platesolving using an older image so you can test the whole kit inside. Caveat: It will slew the scope but its attempt to platesolve again to check if object in centred will fail  

I found that Wifi connectivity to RPi outside could get flaky so I use an ethernet cable connection between laptop & Rpi. Hope this helps.

If I understand this correctly -

INDI on RPI + Kstars / Ekos on indoor device

is pretty much the same setup as I'm planing on using with INDIGO -

INDIGOSky on RPI + It's own imager (Ain imager / INDIGO imager) running on indoor machine.

Alternative to this would be (and I'm hoping it will work) -

INDIGOSky on RPI / ALPACA agent + ALPACA ASCOM 6.5 on indoor Windows machine + any ASCOM compatible software that I already have - like PHD2 / SGP.

 

I know about RPI connectivity issues, and I'm planning to put dedicated AP outside as both mount and RPI4 use wifi connections (as I have them configured at the moment).

I like the idea of INDIGO as I can use my mobile phone/web client in initial phase of setup: polar alignment and focusing (no motor focuser yet).

[Stuart1971]

7 minutes ago, barbulo said:

I see INDIGOSKY as an alternative to EQMOD and aimed mainly to MacOS and Linux, although you can use the control in any OS through a web browser. 

IMO, the perfect match for the INDIGOSKY server running on a Pi is KSTARS/EKOS in a Mac. That will be my next movement. Some day. Currently using EQMOD drivers and APT in a laptop with W10 in the backyard, and remote control from a desktop.

I tried INDIGOSKY server in a Pi from APT in W10 but the INDI-DSLR drivers are not implemented yet in APT. 😢

Another option is to load ASTROBERRY in the Pi (is free and has KSTARS/EKOS installed) and control the Pi from any OS web browser.

Indigosky is not an alternative to EQMOD as it holds all the drivers not just one…and you can control it not just from a web browser but from any PC with the Indigo imaging software client, which can be Mac, Linux or windows, using your Wifi connection….the same as using Kstars / Ekos, on windows Linux or Mac….with INdI on a raspberry PI….

[vlaiv]

11 minutes ago, barbulo said:

I see INDIGOSKY as an alternative to EQMOD and aimed mainly to MacOS and Linux, although you can use the control in any OS through a web browser. 

It's more than that - it is ASCOM alternative rather than just EQMod - EQMod is ASCOM mount driver for Synta/Skywatcher mounts.

In fact - giving that it implements ALPACA protocol, INDIGO is addition to ASCOM ALPACA infrastructure (if it works - yet to be tested).

[AstroMuni]

1 minute ago, vlaiv said:

I like the idea of INDIGO as I can use my mobile phone/web client in initial phase of setup: polar alignment and focusing (no motor focuser yet).

I use Team viewer to see my laptop screen on my phone while I am focusing. Ekos has a polar alignment assistant which you can use in same way.

[barbulo]

1 minute ago, vlaiv said:

It's more than that - it is ASCOM alternative rather than just EQMod - EQMod is ASCOM mount driver for Synta/Skywatcher mounts.

Sorry, I meant ASCOM, not EQMOD.

2 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

In fact - giving that it implements ALPACA protocol, INDIGO is addition to ASCOM ALPACA infrastructure (if it works - yet to be tested).

ALPACA sounds good but DSLR capability still not implemented.

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, AstroMuni said:

I use Team viewer to see my laptop screen on my phone while I am focusing. Ekos has a polar alignment assistant which you can use in same way.

I have tried all ways of viewing my RPI and Kstars running on it, but as I use a 4k monitor, they all produce lag and are not good, the best I have found it RealVNC but I have to have my monitor set to 2560 x 1400 this gives me the best compromise between a good sized image on my 28” screen with minimal lag…on 4k it’s pretty much unusable….

[AstroMuni]

@vlaiv as you are using RPi, INDIGO or INDI seem to be the way to go. As to what software you use on laptop you have a choice of CCD Ciel, etc.

EDIT: And if INDIGO drivers dont work you have the fallback of using INDI drivers as INDIGO is meant to be compatible with INDI

Edited November 17, 2021 by AstroMuni

[AstroMuni]

Just now, Stuart1971 said:

I have tried all ways of viewing my RPI and Kstars running on it, but as I use a 4k monitor, they all produce lag and are not good, the best I have found it RealVNC but I have to have my monitor set to 2560 x 1400 this gives me the best compromise between a good sized image on my 28” screen with minimal lag…on 4k it’s pretty much unusable….

I am viewing my laptop screen so it works fine. The more your resolution the slower it would get to screen grab

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

@vlaiv as you are using RPi, INDIGO or INDI seem to be the way to go. As to what software you use on laptop you have a choice of CCD Ciel, etc.

I still need to figure out couple of things.

Agents for example - do I need them running, or can I just use drivers remotely. Or rather - do I benefit from them running. It seems that I can go by just fine without using agents.

Another thing is that ASCOM ALPACA thing. That sounds seriously good and the way forward. I wonder if it will actually work. Need to test it ASAP. Just afraid that if I install ASCOM 6.5 - I'll mess up my current installation of 6.3

[gilesco]

2 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

I have tried all ways of viewing my RPI and Kstars running on it, but as I use a 4k monitor, they all produce lag and are not good, the best I have found it RealVNC but I have to have my monitor set to 2560 x 1400 this gives me the best compromise between a good sized image on my 28” screen with minimal lag…on 4k it’s pretty much unusable….

I wouldn't use VNC if trying to display 4K (my monitor is only 2560x1400 anyway). Is there a reason you're not running Kstars on your computer with the 4K screen and only running INDI on the RPi?

Recent calculations have shown that guiding from a computer other than the RPi is considerably better than doing the guiding in Ekos/PHD on the RPi. This is because of lag in processing each image (particularly with the new algorithms to track multi-star).

[AstroMuni]

9 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Another thing is that ASCOM ALPACA thing. That sounds seriously good and the way forward. I wonder if it will actually work. Need to test it ASAP. Just afraid that if I install ASCOM 6.5 - I'll mess up my current installation of 6.3

My suggestion is try the INDI/INDIGO drivers. If you have trouble then try ASCOM route. As INDI/INDIGO is running on RPi, as per my understanding, all that ALPACA will do is create a bridge to ASCOM drivers running on a Windows box. That sounds like additional traffic back & forth RPi. Happy to be corrected on ALPACA.

8 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Agents for example - do I need them running, or can I just use drivers remotely. Or rather - do I benefit from them running. It seems that I can go by just fine without using agents.

What agents are you referring to? All that runs for me on RPi is INDI server and it will initiate loading of relevant drivers. Nothing else is running there at the moment.

Now that I have a guidescope, I may consider using PHD2 to run from RPi at some point (as that will be closer to. mount, guidecam) Ekos internal guider works just fine for the moment.

Edited November 17, 2021 by AstroMuni

[barbulo]

2 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Agents for example - do I need them running,

No, just the server.

2 minutes ago, gilesco said:

Recent calculations have shown that guiding from a computer other than the RPi is considerably better than doing the guiding in Ekos/PHD on the RPi.

Interesting. I thought that the communication lag between the Pi and the guiding software (Pi wifi is awful) might affect the performance. Could you point to the source?

[gilesco]

11 minutes ago, barbulo said:

Interesting. I thought that the communication lag between the Pi and the guiding software (Pi wifi is awful) might affect the performance. Could you point to the source?

It was a post in the indilib.org forums, here: https://indilib.org/forum/ekos/10675-ekos-internal-guiding-elapsed-time-between-acquisition-and-pulse-command.html#77386

Strictly speaking this is replacing the Pi with a NUC, so similar calculations with Guiding on fast PC with Pi INDI client might be needed to confirm, it is a big difference though. 

I would certainly confirm the below statement:

And yes, Pi Wifi is not particularly good, I use an Ethernet cable and disable all RF on the Pi completely (as it also appears to interfere with my GPS).

Edited November 17, 2021 by gilesco
Found the relevant link

[vlaiv]

5 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

My suggestion is try the INDI/INDIGO drivers. If you have trouble then try ASCOM route. As INDI/INDIGO is running on RPi, as per my understanding, all that ALPACA will do is create a bridge to ASCOM drivers running on a Windows box. That sounds like additional traffic back & forth RPi. Happy to be corrected on ALPACA.

I want to use software that I'm already used to / paid - like SGP. As far as I understand, SGP won't connect directly to INDI/INDIGO drivers as it is build for ASCOM. I know that Alpaca is just another layer, but as far as I can tell - not really that "heavy" layer to be much of a concern - like in creating latency or whatever.

[StevieDvd]

I just posted the below in a similar Ascom/Alpaca thread:

"

So if I understand this correctly:

• Either the remote or local computer must run Windows (server for Ascom)
• Windows can use remote, local, com calls to run devices
• Linux, Mac need drivers to control local devices
• Linux, Mac clients need options added to configure alpaca settings

So at present it may be a better solution for a dual Windows setup, so api calls can be use across networks rather than long run cables from indoors to the mount etc. But needs a lot of work for any OS other than Windows - which will need new drivers & clients to change over from indilib (or support both). That seems to be a big ask for device makers and client developers.

"

I've not read much on Indigo yet so not sure if it solves any of my above statements.

[Stuart1971]

42 minutes ago, gilesco said:

I wouldn't use VNC if trying to display 4K (my monitor is only 2560x1400 anyway). Is there a reason you're not running Kstars on your computer with the 4K screen and only running INDI on the RPi?

Recent calculations have shown that guiding from a computer other than the RPi is considerably better than doing the guiding in Ekos/PHD on the RPi. This is because of lag in processing each image (particularly with the new algorithms to track multi-star).

If you loose wifi connection your screwed…and I can’t use Ethernet, the RPI is more than capable of running it all, and it’s quicker as no files to transfer over wifi back to main PC, and guiding, platesolving  is quicker too, in fact it’s all much quicker…👍🏼

[vlaiv]

7 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

I just posted the below in a similar Ascom/Alpaca thread:

"

So if I understand this correctly:

• Either the remote or local computer must run Windows (server for Ascom)
• Windows can use remote, local, com calls to run devices
• Linux, Mac need drivers to control local devices
• Linux, Mac clients need options added to configure alpaca settings

So at present it may be a better solution for a dual Windows setup, so api calls can be use across networks rather than long run cables from indoors to the mount etc. But needs a lot of work for any OS other than Windows - which will need new drivers & clients to change over from indilib (or support both). That seems to be a big ask for device makers and client developers.

"

I've not read much on Indigo yet so not sure if it solves any of my above statements.

RPI can't run windows os as far as I'm aware (yet - not sure if there are any plans to port it - or any version of it), so that sort of excludes dual windows setup in my case.

As far as I can tell - Indigo has alpaca agent implemented - which should expose other devices drivers loaded in indigo as ascom alpaca devices on that particular RPI.

In theory it should work - connecting from windows box (which I do have and run in my study) to out door RPI installation