Advice and comments please

[zcjp]

Total noob.

I've been given a Meade Adventure pack which consists of a version of the ST80, a nice backpack, a wobbly tripod and 2  meh eyepieces.

I'd like to make it a bit more usable so I've though about buying a Skywatcher Virtuoso tabletop with possibly a wifi adapter to turn it into a goto

This would allow me to use either the Virtuoso scope or the ST80  on the Virtuoso mount

I want something I can pick up and take outside without hassle

Before anyone asks what I want to look at I'm a noob so I don't really know. I did get a look at the moon through the Meade which was quite exciting

I understand that there are other options available but I think the Virtuoso mount would suit me  at the moment

The virtuoso has a choice of a MAK 90 or a 114P reflector.

Given the above circumstances which would you choose?  The MAK or  the reflector?

 

 

[M40]

Hello zcjp, the Meade pack looks an nice grab and go kit👌 I looked at the virtuoso the other day, that looks quite interesting too. Of the two, I think personally I would opt for the 114P. Slightly better numbers, no real cool down to worry about, dew not so much of a problem and as a table top, the eyepiece for an adult is where you would want it, maybe not so much for little ones though. All the best and let us know what you choose. 

[Roy Challen]

Both have advantages and disadvantages. The Mak has a narrow field of view, but can achieve higher magnification more easily than the Newtonian. It will also be more forgiving of lower quality eyepieces. You may also need a dew shield.

The Newtonian has a wider field of view, but being a 'fast' scope -f/4.4 means it's fast - low quality eyepieces will produce a poorer image.

Having said that, if it were my money, I'd go for the Newt and buy some better eyepieces later down the line.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Roy Challen

[Peter Drew]

I think it worth mentioning that simplicity of eyepiece design does not necessarily equate with low quality, there are plenty of high quality ones made in the past.  Short focal length telescopes certainly require sophisticated eyepieces to perform at their best and quality across the design spectrum is always desirable.      🙂

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi @zcjp and welcome to SGL. 

I agree with all the above comments by fellow SGL'ers...

10 hours ago, zcjp said:

Given the above circumstances which would you choose?  The MAK or  the reflector?

 

 

If you enjoy other outdoor pursuits then go with the Mak., as the image will appear right way up... though left/right will be reversed when a 90deg. star diagonal is used in the optical path/train.
Some of them will even attach to a camera/video tripod. Below is an image of my 're-modded' ETX105 on a Manfrotto tripod and small manual alt-az mount.

As previously mentioned, a dew shield is a must have accessory for many catadioptric 'scopes.

 

[Alan64]

A 114mm f/4.4 Newtonian is nigh the reflective equivalent of an 80mm f/5 achromat, and therefore the Newtonian would be the same, albeit false-colour free, but redundant nonetheless.

I would go with the 90mm Maksutov instead...

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

Good point above made by Alan … the Mak will also give great views of the planets  . Get the Mak for planets and the moon and use the Meade for wide field 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Stu1smartcookie

[wulfrun]

As someone who owns the 114P version, I'd also say go with the Mak in this instance. The Newtonian doesn't do well at higher magnifications so it would sort of duplicate the refractor, as said above. The Mak version would give you something different.

[Girders]

So, it's my turn to be "that guy" that everyone looking for advice on a new scope hates...

Ok, so I started with the Virtuoso mount with the 114p.  Love it and use it now with a 127 Mak.  I didn't have to choose between the 114 Newt or the 90 Mak as there was an offer on the 114 Newt.  The mount is great for exactly what you say - I pick it up off a table/sideboard in the house and put it down on a garden table 2 minutes later.  Light enough even with my Mak on it that it's no bother to move it.

And last week I'd have had nothing more to add - I don't have strong views either way on the 114 Newt vs 90 Mak.  But.. the  I found out about the New Virtuoso mounts and here's where I do the dreaded "for just a little more" thing that we've all hated at some point.

£250 for the Virtuoso with either the Newt or Mak.  £65 for the wifi adapter (which I have and works really well with the mount) takes you up to £315.

£389 would get you the new Virtuoso mount with wifi built in already and with 150p flex tube newt.  BIG step up from the 114p and seems good value for an extra £75.  It's also a mount big enough to cope if you ever wanted to pick up a Mak 127 (the old style Virtuoso can cope with the weight but the scope hits the base at high altitudes).  I think the new Virtuoso with the Mak 127 is too big a step in price at £539, but the 150p version seems a great deal to me.  One concern I have about the new mounts though - all control is by your smartphone, so no physical buttons for L/R and Up/Down which I can see being a drawback for fine aligning when you can't easily 'press' to move it while looking down the eyepiece.

Sorry for being "that guy".

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Girders
clarity

[Shimrod]

17 hours ago, zcjp said:

Total noob.

I've been given a Meade Adventure pack which consists of a version of the ST80, a nice backpack, a wobbly tripod and 2  meh eyepieces.

I'd like to make it a bit more usable so I've though about buying a Skywatcher Virtuoso tabletop with possibly a wifi adapter to turn it into a goto

This would allow me to use either the Virtuoso scope or the ST80  on the Virtuoso mount

I want something I can pick up and take outside without hassle

Before anyone asks what I want to look at I'm a noob so I don't really know. I did get a look at the moon through the Meade which was quite exciting

I understand that there are other options available but I think the Virtuoso mount would suit me  at the moment

The virtuoso has a choice of a MAK 90 or a 114P reflector.

Given the above circumstances which would you choose?  The MAK or  the reflector?

 

 

I admire the logic that says the best way to improve your ST80 is to buy a whole other telescope package!

You want to make the ST80 more usable, but what is it that is making it unusable at the moment? You mention a wobbly tripod - that can be replaced, and eyepieces - the BST range are often recommended as a cheap but effective upgrade, and if you search across the forum you will see cheap zoom eyepieces from Svbony that have favourable reviews.

To covert the Virtuoso into a goto is going to take extra cost, so you may want to consider just diving straight in and getting a replacement mount/tripod. Some to consider are:

• Skywatcher AZ GTI - £339 (and control from your phone or tablet via wi-fi),
• Iopton SmartStar Pro - £315 with an handset (wi-fi is extra cost)
• Skywatcher Star Discovery £345 ( control with wi-fi)

All of the above come with a tripod and are light enough to carry out from house to garden already set up. It's worth noting that the Virtuoso is a tabletop mount, so if you don't have a convenient, stable surface to put it on you may find yourself lying on the ground. A mount on a tripod gives you a bit more flexibility if you decide to travel with it. I have a AZ GTI and 80mm 'scope as my travel kit.

[zcjp]

Thanks to all the replies so far especially Alan64's pointing out the redundancy of the 114P with the ST80.

The Meade Adventure version of the ST80 actually comes with a right way up/correct left-right diagonal(?) so terrestrial stuff is not a problem.

I've seen the new Virtuosos but I suspect that the lack of buttons  would be a disadvantage as far as I'm concerned at the moment.

As far as paying ~£315 for a new mount to put the ST80 on rather than paying  ~£315 for the Virtuoso/wifi adapter the difference is that with the Virtuoso I end up with a new goto mount and a MAK OTA as well  😀

Edited August 21, 2021 by zcjp

[Shimrod]

14 minutes ago, zcjp said:

Thanks to all the replies so far especially Alan64's pointing out the redundancy of the 114P with the ST80.

The Meade Adventure version of the ST80 actually comes with a right way up/correct left-right diagonal(?) so terrestrial stuff is not a problem.

I've seen the new Virtuosos but I suspect that the lack of buttons  would be a disadvantage as far as I'm concerned at the moment.

As far as paying ~£315 for a new mount to put the ST80 on rather than paying  ~£315 for the Virtuoso/wifi adapter the difference is that with the Virtuoso I end up with a new goto mount and a MAK OTA as well  😀

I don't believe the older Virtuoso is wi-fi compatible, and to get full goto operations you will need to buy a hand controller and cable which is another £195 - so your cost will be in the region of £440. Purchasing a separate mount would give you more flexibility for future 'scope purchases as well as giving you time to find our what you like. The AZ-GTI can also be cheaply upgraded with a wedge to should you decide you want to dabble in a bit of astrophotography.

[Stu1smartcookie]

A fair answer to a very fair point made by @Shimrod. At the end of the day it’s your decision . But it’s great to get different viewpoints , that’s why you posted on here, right?  The point about the table top  mount is very pertinent in this case … finding the right height to use the virtuoso would mean an extra table . That may not be a problem if you intended to view from one location ie your garden but if you wished to go to a dark site then “said “ table would probably have to come too . The az-gti mount is a good suggestion but I agree with you that these are all extra costs .. and I also agree that you get a new scope with the virtuoso . Difficult call isn’t it .. personally I would go for an az-gti giving you a goto mount which is very cost affective . 

[Girders]

14 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

I don't believe the older Virtuoso is wi-fi compatible, and to get full goto operations you will need to buy a hand controller and cable which is another £195

The 1st gen Virtuoso mount doesn't have wi-fi built in, but works happily with the Skywatcher Wi-Fi adapter for £65 which lets you control the mount from a smartphone using a Skywatcher app (including the ability to use it as a full feature go-to scope).

Edited August 21, 2021 by Girders

[zcjp]

The old Virtuoso mount is compatible with the Wifi dongle. There are videos  on the choob showing it working and Alex from FLO confirmed that it does in an email to me.

[zcjp]

At the moment it's all  going to be back yard stuff but II believe that the virtuoso mount has a 3/8  tripod socket on it so I could blag a second hand Manfrotto off Ebay if I decide to go awandering. 

[Stu1smartcookie]

Yes good idea .

[wulfrun]

26 minutes ago, zcjp said:

At the moment it's all  going to be back yard stuff but II believe that the virtuoso mount has a 3/8  tripod socket on it so I could blag a second hand Manfrotto off Ebay if I decide to go awandering. 

That's correct, mine certainly has the socket anyway. The video above states that it doesn't but they may have added it later in production, I don't know about that.

One small caveat, the mount needs to be level to work properly (and the more accurately, the better). Put it on a tripod and you lose the ability to do that via the adjustable feet. You'll have to adjust the tripod legs instead, which is more fiddly.

Edited August 21, 2021 by wulfrun
more info

[Alan64]

You'll be able to cover the gamut with the 80mm achromat and the 90mm Maksutov; low powers to high, and for practically every object in the night sky, albeit limited only by the apertures of each.

I know that you'll have an Amici/erect-image diagonal, but I don't if you'll have a proper star-diagonal.  If not, you can get one of those easily, and for use at night.  The Amici/erect-image is primarily if not exclusively for use during the day; birds in trees, ships at sea, that sort of thing.

This is the difference between an Amici, and a Star...

Note the apertures of each.  The word "star" says it all.  You can use an Amici at night, and some do, so that an object's position matches that as shown on their star charts and maps, but in the end a Star is the ideal for nightly observations.

[zcjp]

Once again thanks for all the posts. They've all been really useful to me.

[zcjp]

Just to follow up...

 

I've ordered a Virtuoso 90 Mak and wifi adapter which will be here on Tuesday  😍

[Stu1smartcookie]

8 hours ago, zcjp said:

Just to follow up...

 

I've ordered a Virtuoso 90 Mak and wifi adapter which will be here on Tuesday  😍

Wishing you clear skies with your new purchase   

[zcjp]

Bit of a shocker. I ordered it from FLO yesterday at noon and got an SMS from DHL that it would be here on Tuesday. It actually arrived this morning, 22 hours after I ordered it 😃