Once set up.... What next?

[Ed the Fox]

Hello all. I'm new to the forum but been into astronomy all my life. 

I'm about to take the plunge on a scope and settled on  skywatcher 200pds heq5 goto. My question is as follows. 

Once polar allied I'm going to mark out the flags where the tripod sits so next time I set it up its polar allied (or is it). 

Also after 3 star allining for the first time do I have to do that again even if its in the same place. 

Cheers all

Ed

Edited August 2, 2021 by Ed the Fox
Spelling mistake

[Budgie1]

Hi Ed and welcome to the SGL.

What are you intending to use the scope for, visual or imaging?

If you mark where the mount was when Polar Aligned then placing it in the same place will give you a close Polar Alignment (PA) but, if you're using it for imaging then checking the PA to make sure it's good will give you better results. Likewise, for visual observations, checking the PA will give you the best tracking from the mount. This is because, although the feet of the tripod are in the same place, the tripod level may be different, the mount may have move on the tripod (assuming you keep the two connected when stored) or it may have been a few weeks since your last session.  

With the Star Alignment, whether it be 1, 2 or 3 star alignment, this will be forgotten by the mount when you switch it off. So you will have to do this for every session to get the best out of the Go-To facility on the mount.

The good thing is, the more you do it, the easier it becomes.

Enjoy the new kit!

[Ed the Fox]

Hi Budgie and thanks for the reply and welcome. 

The scope will primeraly used for visual as I don't have a camera as yet although I could borrow my daughters. 

Once the polar alignment is complete I was going to assemble the whole scope and move the whole scope and tripod together. 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Ed the Fox

[UKDiver]

I've the same set-up. Personally, I'd not move the rig as a complete unit. Heavy and unwieldy, too much chance of knocking something.  I'm at the early stages too, sadly brought to a screaming halt by nearly two months of sciatica. Yet to see polaris through it, let alone anything else!

[Jiggy 67]

Welcome Ed. That setup is not an easy lift, it’s quite heavy.

I’m afraid that there is little option but to disassemble and reassemble each session.  Marking where the legs are will help but PA will have to be done each time as will star alignment…..unless…..You leave it all set up. I leave mine out for quite some time, weeks even. If you do this Synscan allows you to start from the last saved position. As long as you haven’t moved anything, there is no requirement for PA or star alignment, it remembers your last session, all you have to do is enter time and date. Obviously you need a good cover, I recommend the Telegizmos 365 cover, I use one without any issues 

[Guest]

I have exactly the same setup. It's a good idea to mark the mount with the home position. There are a number of you tube videos showing how to do this. It's not difficult. 

I have marked the flags for my tripod but I still do the polar alignment because I'm imaging. When you do the polar alignment you have to rotate the DEC axis so that you can see through the polar scope.  The scope sets its RA and DEC counters to zero when the power is switched on and it assumes that the mount is in the home position when that happens. If you mark the mount and make sure it's in the home position when you switch on it'll make alignment easier. Using 3 point alignment I find when it goes to the first star it's usually off and may not even be in the eyepiece. When you do the second star it's a bit better and by the third star it's usually not bad. At the end of the session you might find it useful to return the mount to the home position before you switch off. Then when you start the next session the mount will already be in the right place.

I have to move the kit out and back in for each session and I do it separately. Move the mount to the viewing position, take out the counter weights and put those on. Finally take out the OTA and put that on. Do the reverse when you bring it back in. It sounds like a pain but I'm pretty slick with it now.

I've put a strap around the OTA where the OTA sits in the hoops. The strap rests against the upper hoop and stops the OTA sliding down out of the hoops and falling on the floor when you haven't yet tightened up the hoop screws - just a safety thing.  The hoop also sets the balance position for the OTA. One of the first things you'll have to do is balance the RA and DEC axis. When you've balanced the DEC axis you need to know where the OTA sits when you place it in the hoops at the start of a session. I used a strap for that but you could just mark it with a piece of tape.

Make sure the weights are in the lowest position when you lift off the OTA otherwise the mount will swing around.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Guest

[Ed the Fox]

Thanks all. Some really good advice there for me. It would seem that it's down to the sub microns to get good results. 

Once I get the scope it'll just be a matter of practice to get it right and like all those who have this set up it's just time and patience and I'll get it right. 

Just one other thing. For those who have this scope, did the polar scope need any adjustment out of the box or was it spot on? 

[AstroMuni]

On 02/08/2021 at 13:19, Budgie1 said:

With the Star Alignment, whether it be 1, 2 or 3 star alignment, this will be forgotten by the mount when you switch it off. So you will have to do this for every session to get the best out of the Go-To facility on the mount.

Good point.

@Ed the Fox If you are driving the mount through your computer then you maybe able to save the Mount configuration and reload it the next time. For example I use Kstars/Ekos and it has ability to save mount alignment model.

Edited August 3, 2021 by AstroMuni

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Ed the Fox said:

Thanks all. Some really good advice there for me. It would seem that it's down to the sub microns to get good results. 

Once I get the scope it'll just be a matter of practice to get it right and like all those who have this set up it's just time and patience and I'll get it right. 

Just one other thing. For those who have this scope, did the polar scope need any adjustment out of the box or was it spot on? 

My Polar scope needed a little adjustment.

[Ed the Fox]

1 hour ago, AstroMuni said:

Good point.

@Ed the Fox If you are driving the mount through your computer then you maybe able to save the Mount configuration and reload it the next time. For example I use Kstars/Ekos and it has ability to save mount alignment model.

Would the GPS unit negate all of that? 

[Clarkey]

16 hours ago, Ed the Fox said:

Would the GPS unit negate all of that?

In most cases the location data is saved once entered so the GPS module is only really an advantage if you regularly move site.

17 hours ago, Ed the Fox said:

. For those who have this scope, did the polar scope need any adjustment out of the box or was it spot on?

I suspect you will need to adjust. Mine was close but not quite right.

[Guest]

On 02/08/2021 at 12:45, Ed the Fox said:

 

Also after 3 star allining for the first time do I have to do that again even if its in the same place. 

 

My setup is the same as yours. I find that even with 3 star alignment it's not perfect and if you want to move to a part of the sky out side the triangle formed by the three stars it will be worse.  I never found it particularly accurate. I put it down to flexure in the scope and mount. The occurs especially if you have to do a meridian flip.  So probably you will have to do it again. Sometimes it's easier to do a one star alignment but pick a star close to where you want to be observing.

[Ed the Fox]

Thanks to you all. The information you guys have given me has been really helpful it truly has. 

It's now a case of finding all the tutorials on YouTube and absorb it all like a sponge in preparation when someone in the UK actually starts stocking the scope. 

[Budgie1]

2 hours ago, Ed the Fox said:

It's now a case of finding all the tutorials on YouTube and absorb it all like a sponge in preparation when someone in the UK actually starts stocking the scope. 

It'll be the HEQ5 mount that's the problem, FLO have 3x 200P-DS scopes in stock at the moment but no HEQ5's. 🥴

[carastro]

Sounds exciting, but to be honest I would have said the 200PDS is a bit too big for the HEQ5 for imaging purposes.  It's a lovely scope and the HEQ5 is also excellent, but together I think they will not be sufficiently stable enough for imaging which is done in Long exposure and any wind will make your large scope wobble.  

Great for visual when an odd wobble can be ignored but not when you're capturing long exposures of 10 minutes or more.  

Personally I'd get a smaller scope or a beefier mount.    The retailers have a habit of selling these two together, as I say great for visual and planetary imaging perhaps.  

Sorry to put a dampner on your excitement.

Carole 

[Guest]

Hi Carole, I have the 200pds and HEQ5 which I bought at the same time. It's true that the 200pds is probably too big for the mount even though it well inside the maximum payload of the mount. It'll be fine for visual use. At the same time, I do use it for imaging and I find it not too bad.  I keep the exposures short and do a lot of stacking. I mainly use mine for photometry and it seems fine for that.  It tracks very well and the main problem is that the tube is long and big and the wind catches it.. I think Ed will do fine with it.  If you do any imaging it's worth getting the SW coma corrector matched to the scope.

It's not a perfect setup but I'm very pleased with mine (I'm a sucker for Newtonian Reflectors).

[Ed the Fox]

I was going to start with just visual as I don't have a SLR camera and I'm probably a long way from astro photography although its not beyond the relms of possibility..... And for that you recommend the HEQ5 with maybe a 150 PDS? 

[Guest]

Hi Ed, I don't really know the answer but people will tell you that you should put your money in the mount first rather than the scope. 

 

[Ed the Fox]

One thing I cannot find is how heavy the HEQ5 mount actually is. What it  does say is it holds 9kg and the 200pds is 8.8kg so just on the cusp of its limits which means you add an SLR to it and....... Uh oh. 

So now I may go down to a 150pds and the HEQ5 mount as a Neq6 and 200pds is way outside my budget. 

[carastro]

Quote

I was going to start with just visual as I don't have a SLR camera and I'm probably a long way from astro photography although its not beyond the relms of possibility..... And for that you recommend the HEQ5 with maybe a 150 PDS? 

HEQ5 is fine for imaging (I have one) so long as you don't overload it, and the trouble with Newtonian's is they catch the wind.  But yes a 150PDS would be fine, I used to have a 130PDS and that was great too.

Carole 

[Guest]

According to the skywatcher website the maximum payload is 13.7 Kg but I think they usually recommend half that for astrophotography. That would be about 7kg. I've weighed my 200pds + canon dslr+guide scope + guide camera + hoops and rail and it comes to 10.5 Kg which is way over the AP limit but less than the max payload.  I can comfortably carry the tripod and mount without the counterweights out to my observing place. I can carry it with the counterweights but it's easier without. The shipping weight for the HEQ5 is 18Kg + 12Kg. I think the 12 is for the weights which are shipped separately so the tripod and mount must be the 18kg, allowing for packing and stuff it's going to be a bit less than that which seems about right.

Carole is right about the Newtonian. It's like a blinking great sail for catching the wind.

I hate to confuse you but you should know that there is one other important disadvantage with a Newtonian on an equatorial mount and that is the position of the eyepiece and finder. The eyepiece is at the top end of the tube. It is often the case that if you set the tube so that the eyepiece is in a convenient position when the mount is in the home position by the time you've moved the scope to look at a different part of the sky the eyepiece is now in a most inconvenient position for viewing. This means that you have to rotate the scope in the hoops to put the eyepiece somewhere useful. This often ends up with the clutches slipping due to the force required and then the mount is no longer aligned. This doesn't bother me any longer because I'm usually using it with a camera attached and I'm looking at it through my laptop.

 

[Ed the Fox]

All my days (head explodes). 

I did think about the eye pieces being inaccessible at some point but though of getting diagonals to combat this the finder looks underwhelming and needs a diagonal on it. 

[iapa]

5 hours ago, carastro said:

Sounds exciting, but to be honest I would have said the 200PDS is a bit too big for the HEQ5 for imaging purposes.  It's a lovely scope and the HEQ5 is also excellent, but together I think they will not be sufficiently stable enough for imaging which is done in Long exposure and any wind will make your large scope wobble.  

Great for visual when an odd wobble can be ignored but not when you're capturing long exposures of 10 minutes or more.  

Personally I'd get a smaller scope or a beefier mount.    The retailers have a habit of selling these two together, as I say great for visual and planetary imaging perhaps.  

Sorry to put a dampner on your excitement.

Carole 

I would agree - I got a 200P-DS to put on the AVX, pretty close to HEQ5, but  it was just a little too much if there was any sort out of breeze. Bought a CGEM-DX which works fine with the 200P-DS.

The AVX carries short tube 8” OTAs, e.g. . SCT and RASA, well.

Also great with the 80mm Skywatcher equinox and esprit.

 

[Ed the Fox]

Would a 200PDS on a NEQ6 Pro do the job? 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Ed the Fox

[carastro]

Quote

Would a 200PDS on a NEQ6 Pro do the job? 

Yes much better.  As you already have purchased the HEQ5 and 200PDS, I would suggest keep that for visual and planetary imaging, and get yourself a smaller Newtonian such as the 150Pds or 130PDS for imaging, much chaper than buying a whole new mount.  You'll have the best of both worlds then.  (sorry about the pun).  

Carole