Skywatcher EQ5 Pro question about star alignment failure

[Sabalias]

I hope someone can help me - I've looked back through the forums and found some mention of this phenomenon but I'm not sure that it was answered.

Last night I wanted to check that my newly-purchased guide camera was guiding (first clear night in a while). I set up as accurately as I could:

Mount was level

Accurate polar alignment

Scope balanced

RA and Dec manually set to home using a level

Synscan booted up

Location, date, time, time zone and daylight-saving set (and triple-checked over the period)

At this point I chose 1 star alignment as I all I wanted to do was a simple functionality check of the guide camera. Looking around the (still bright) sky I saw that the only option open to me was Arcturus, so I selected that on the Synscan handset. The motors started whirring away and the scope began to slew in the right direction. At this point it seemed to go very wrong; instead of slewing all the way to Arcturus, the motion stopped with the scope pointing at a point where the star would have been 4 or 5 hours earlier. I decided to try it all again (checking everything) and the same thing happened; however, this time I adjusted the scope to point at the star (using the arrow keys on the handset) but I was told that the alignment had failed (I did see something like this displayed “R.A offset xx degrees re-check location, date and time). I tried everything again – same problem so I factory reset the handset. I put all the data in fresh and tried to align again but the scope still stopped too early, pointing at where Arcturus would have been about 4 or 5 hours earlier. It was getting late and I had run out of things to try so I packed up and went indoors to do some googling etc.

Once inside I decided to update the handset firmware and then experiment indoors. I set everything up as before and included parking the mount in the home position then restarting it. The scope still wound up pointing at the same wrong piece of sky. This time I slewed the mount around to point at Arcturus and it said ‘alignment successful’ which I found a bit confusing but there we go. I re-parked the mount and restarted it; went through all the setup rigmarole and this time the scope slewed correctly to Arcturus.

On to my questions then:

Has anyone got any idea why this might have happened in the first place? Last time I took the scope out it behaved beautifully. The only thing I did between then and last night was to connect the handset to my Astroberry to see if they would talk to each other (it’s possible I might have clicked on something I suppose).

Is this normal behaviour after factory reset/firmware update, is my handset knackered or is this just one of those weird and wacky things that happens sometimes?

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read.

Stu

[Cosmic Geoff]

 or is this just one of those weird and wacky things that happens sometimes

I'd say it is just one of those weird and wacky things that happens sometimes with these mounts. I have an EQ5 Synscan and also three Celestron Nexstar+ mounts, and the Nexstars are far less annoying.

[malc-c]

Ensure the credentials that you enter are in the right format.  It used to be a common issue when the date was entered incorrectly. Its a decade since I used a handset, but think it needs to be mmddyyyyy.  Likewise the location needs to be degrees, minutes and seconds not GPS digital format...

[Sabalias]

5 minutes ago, malc-c said:

Ensure the credentials that you enter are in the right format.  It used to be a common issue when the date was entered incorrectly. Its a decade since I used a handset, but think it needs to be mmddyyyyy.  Likewise the location needs to be degrees, minutes and seconds not GPS digital format...

Hi Malc,

Thanks for taking the time to comment. That was my first thought so I checked it and rechecked it every time (W x°xx'; N y°yy'; Time = mm/dd/yyy; Timezone = +00.00; Time = local time; DST = 'yes'). Sadly (or perhaps not) everything was as it should be (unless the W should have been -x°xx'?).

Stu

[Cornelius Varley]

27 minutes ago, malc-c said:

Likewise the location needs to be degrees, minutes and seconds not GPS digital format...

Only degrees and minutes are required for the Synscan handset..

14 minutes ago, Sabalias said:

Hi Malc,

Thanks for taking the time to comment. That was my first thought so I checked it and rechecked it every time (W x°xx'; N y°yy'; Time = mm/dd/yyy; Timezone = +00.00; Time = local time; DST = 'yes'). Sadly (or perhaps not) everything was as it should be (unless the W should have been -x°xx'?).

Stu

If you have an android pone you should download Synscaninit2 which will give you your location, date and date information in the correct format.

[Sabalias]

2 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

Only degrees and minutes are required for the Synscan handset..

If you have an android pone you should download Synscaninit2 which will give you your location, date and date information in the correct format.

Thanks Peter. I have an iPhone and use PS Align Pro which, I assume, is similar?

[Cornelius Varley]

9 minutes ago, Sabalias said:

Thanks Peter. I have an iPhone and use PS Align Pro which, I assume, is similar?

If the app gives you coordinates in a suitable format for the handset to use.

To check the information you are entering is correct. The centre Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire is 000 49 W,  51 49 N. Your coordinates should be similar to these and should be entered into the handset in that format (including  the leading zeros) and order.

Latitude and Longitude Finder on Map Get Coordinates (latlong.net)

[Sabalias]

6 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

If the app gives you coordinates in a suitable format for the handset to use.

To check the information you are entering is correct. The centre Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire is 000 49 W,  51 49 N. Your coordinates should be similar to these and should be entered into the handset in that format (including  the leading zeros) and order.

Latitude and Longitude Finder on Map Get Coordinates (latlong.net)

Yep, all correct for where I am.

Stu

[Sabalias]

I’ve experimented again over the last 30 mins and all seems to be working correctly. There must have been some user error last night or a temporary glitch in the mount. Anyway, thanks for the advice. 

[Robindonne]

Glitches.  I had them also like 3 times a year. All data filled in correctly, the mount was way off.  It ruined some nights, thinking what it might be, to find the next day all seems to be fine again. 

[wookie1965]

Download a app called synscannitt that gives you the correct information to enter in your handset. 

My EQ5 never hits the target I have found don't do alignment go to brightest star from the home position. I then do a star alignment 1 or 2 after that every object is in the FOV especially good for me as I go for double and multiple star's. 

[Neil H]

My HEQ5 some times misses targets so I clear PAE , then go a bright target once mount says it's done go into PAE training it will ask you to centre target do this then go to another target do the same with PAE training after doing this 2 or 3 times it will start to hit the targets bang on , I don't know why they start to miss targets but this does sort it out ,PAE is in the utility menu your find PAE clear and PAE training

Edited May 12, 2021 by Neil H
Typo

[Sabalias]

12 hours ago, wookie1965 said:

Download a app called synscannitt that gives you the correct information to enter in your handset. 

My EQ5 never hits the target I have found don't do alignment go to brightest star from the home position. I then do a star alignment 1 or 2 after that every object is in the FOV especially good for me as I go for double and multiple star's. 

Thanks Wookie. Unfortunately I don't have an Android phone and the app doesn't appear to exist on the Apple App Store. I have got PS Align Pro which seems to have all the necessary information though.

Stu

[Sabalias]

1 hour ago, Neil H said:

My HEQ5 some times misses targets so I clear PAE , then go a bright target once mount says it's done go into PAE training it will ask you to centre target do this then go to another target do the same with PAE training after doing this 2 or 3 times it will start to hit the targets bang on , I don't know why they start to miss targets but this does sort it out ,PAE is in the utility menu your find PAE clear and PAE training

Thanks Neil. I'll look at the PAE option. It probably got cleared when I did the factory reset....

Stu

[Neil H]

Yes it should have cleared it , so now set up polar align do a 3 star alignment , then after go to target and do PAE training normally 2 work but if not do a 3rd and you should find it will start to hit the target

[Astro Caller]

On 11/05/2021 at 09:25, Sabalias said:

I hope someone can help me - I've looked back through the forums and found some mention of this phenomenon but I'm not sure that it was answered.

 

Last night I wanted to check that my newly-purchased guide camera was guiding (first clear night in a while). I set up as accurately as I could:

 

Mount was level

 

Accurate polar alignment

 

Scope balanced

 

RA and Dec manually set to home using a level

 

Synscan booted up

 

Location, date, time, time zone and daylight-saving set (and triple-checked over the period)

 

At this point I chose 1 star alignment as I all I wanted to do was a simple functionality check of the guide camera. Looking around the (still bright) sky I saw that the only option open to me was Arcturus, so I selected that on the Synscan handset. The motors started whirring away and the scope began to slew in the right direction. At this point it seemed to go very wrong; instead of slewing all the way to Arcturus, the motion stopped with the scope pointing at a point where the star would have been 4 or 5 hours earlier. I decided to try it all again (checking everything) and the same thing happened; however, this time I adjusted the scope to point at the star (using the arrow keys on the handset) but I was told that the alignment had failed (I did see something like this displayed “R.A offset xx degrees re-check location, date and time). I tried everything again – same problem so I factory reset the handset. I put all the data in fresh and tried to align again but the scope still stopped too early, pointing at where Arcturus would have been about 4 or 5 hours earlier. It was getting late and I had run out of things to try so I packed up and went indoors to do some googling etc.

 

Once inside I decided to update the handset firmware and then experiment indoors. I set everything up as before and included parking the mount in the home position then restarting it. The scope still wound up pointing at the same wrong piece of sky. This time I slewed the mount around to point at Arcturus and it said ‘alignment successful’ which I found a bit confusing but there we go. I re-parked the mount and restarted it; went through all the setup rigmarole and this time the scope slewed correctly to Arcturus.

 

On to my questions then:

 

Has anyone got any idea why this might have happened in the first place? Last time I took the scope out it behaved beautifully. The only thing I did between then and last night was to connect the handset to my Astroberry to see if they would talk to each other (it’s possible I might have clicked on something I suppose).

 

Is this normal behaviour after factory reset/firmware update, is my handset knackered or is this just one of those weird and wacky things that happens sometimes?

 

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read.

 

Stu

 

Hi Stu

Iv not read any of the responses, but thought I would add a few points .

With regards to the motors whining are you using a power box i.e. Pegasus power box etc? your mount requires 12v to perform well, however if your using a power box and 12v supply that also controls your dew heaters etc your voltage drop can be very excessive, I had this on my EQ6-R and ultimate power box, it turned out that with everything running my voltage had dropped to 11v causing my mount motors to whine as they have not got enough torque , I resolved this by purchasing 13.8v power supply. with everything running I was then providing my mount with 13.1v. no more whining.

When using 12v my motors would only whine when both RA and DEC was slewing simultaneously , again this all due to volt drop.

In some extreme cases it can also be caused by poor balance i.e. counter weight heavy,  camera heavy and even worm gears are to tight.

Best way to check this is undo the covers on side of the mount were the belts are, turn the power off and see if you can move the gears with your thumb, if you can move freely with power off your worm gears are probably fine, if they are solid and you cannot move them your worm gears are to tight. can be adjusted easily.

Also check your balance you want to be approx 1oz (28grams) east heavy RA and camera heavy DEC. if your to heavy again your motors wont have enough torque.

One last thing on alignment , have you set up your home position correctly? trip pod needs to be level, don't use bubble level on mount head, these are way off, use boat level and level on all 3 axis, then level you RA with counterweight bar pointing west , use the boat level to get perfect, then set clock to 18:00, do same with dec place boat level on dec (opposite to dovetail clamp and set clock to zero)

This will ensure your home position is perfectly level.

Hope this helps.

Thanks 

[Sabalias]

12 hours ago, Astro Caller said:

Hi Stu

Iv not read any of the responses, but thought I would add a few points .

With regards to the motors whining are you using a power box i.e. Pegasus power box etc? your mount requires 12v to perform well, however if your using a power box and 12v supply that also controls your dew heaters etc your voltage drop can be very excessive, I had this on my EQ6-R and ultimate power box, it turned out that with everything running my voltage had dropped to 11v causing my mount motors to whine as they have not got enough torque , I resolved this by purchasing 13.8v power supply. with everything running I was then providing my mount with 13.1v. no more whining.

When using 12v my motors would only whine when both RA and DEC was slewing simultaneously , again this all due to volt drop.

In some extreme cases it can also be caused by poor balance i.e. counter weight heavy,  camera heavy and even worm gears are to tight.

Best way to check this is undo the covers on side of the mount were the belts are, turn the power off and see if you can move the gears with your thumb, if you can move freely with power off your worm gears are probably fine, if they are solid and you cannot move them your worm gears are to tight. can be adjusted easily.

Also check your balance you want to be approx 1oz (28grams) east heavy RA and camera heavy DEC. if your to heavy again your motors wont have enough torque.

One last thing on alignment , have you set up your home position correctly? trip pod needs to be level, don't use bubble level on mount head, these are way off, use boat level and level on all 3 axis, then level you RA with counterweight bar pointing west , use the boat level to get perfect, then set clock to 18:00, do same with dec place boat level on dec (opposite to dovetail clamp and set clock to zero)

This will ensure your home position is perfectly level.

Hope this helps.

Thanks 

Thanks Astro Caller.

I may have fed in a red herring with the noise from the whirring motors - call it 'trying to be colourful in my prose'. The whole kit is connected to mains power supply at the moment - I have yet to purchase a stand alone power supply for the mount. I have been very careful about making sure everything is ballance but could you be give me a little more information about 'east heavy RA and camera heavy DEC' please, or point me to a resource on the net? I have also been careful about setting home position but I will start using a stand alone level to set the mount - thanks for the pointer.

Stu