Skywatcher GTi mount with SkySafari

[Astro_Dad]

Hi, due to the long lead time on equipment at present, I’m spending  much of my Astro time planning for when I get the kit I’ve ordered... this means learning probably too much theory before putting enough into practice. 
I was looking to tap into the community to learn more about using the Sky Safari app with a Skywatcher GOTO mount (GTi with Skymax 127). 
I understand an update means that the two can work directly together on iOS now without requiring two mobile devices. Does anyone have any experience  of setting this up - wondering if Sky Safari with its potentially useful larger database can completely replace the Syn Scan system for aligning, finding targets and tracking?

Be good to hear any experiences,

Thanks and Clear Skies,

AD

[Zermelo]

Yes, they have apparently fixed the iOS problem so that you can use a single device.

I have an Android phone so I never had that issue, but I assume that the way SkySafari and Synscan work together functionally is the same, so I'll offer you my experiences so far. I'm running Synscan 'Pro' with Skysafari 6 'Plus' versions. The Synscan Pro version supports EQ operation, but still works with alt-az mounts. The Skysafari Plus version has some features not included in the free version, I've not checked which of those described below are in both.

I do initial alignment with Synscan after levelling and pointing north. SkySafari has an initial alignment option for Celestron equipment but not for Skywatcher. I've experimented with 2-star and 3-star alignments but not reached any conclusion about which is more successful. On some nights the initial attempt at the second/third star is very close, at other times I need to correct quite a lot. Once I've aligned, I usually do another one or two star alignments in the area of sky where I'm going to start observing. I used to do these in Synscan (Pointing Accuracy Enhancements), but I lately discovered that SkySafari does have an "Align" function that lets you correct for any pointing discrepancy by matching the current target with an object on the sky chart. I believe this is done by setting offsets internally within SkySafari rather than issuing updates to Synscan's sky model (which is what a PAE operation does), but both actions are intended to improve the pointing accuracy locally within a patch of sky, not globally.

When you connect SkySafari to your scope (via Synscan) you get additional controls that allow you to slew up/down and left/right, and adjust the motion rate. Alternatively, if you select "tilt device to slew" in settings, SkySafari will use the device's accelerometers instead (I've not tried this). You can also issue a GoTo for an object currently selected, which just forwards the command straight through to Synscan. If you need to, you can issue a GoTo for a manually entered RA/Dec position rather than an object (I'm not sure that's possible in Synscan).

For me, the main advantage of using SkySafari is the ability to create observing lists when planning, and then use them to drive an observing session. I'll have a list prepared for a session, usually sorted by rise time. You can choose to display the list's contents on the sky map. I'll usually select objects from the list if my constraint is rise/set times, but sometimes from the map if parts of the sky are obscured. If it's an unfamiliar target that I might struggle to identify, I'll probably look at the SkySafari info page first (e.g. to check magnitudes and separation for double stars), and from there I can also check if I've made any previous observations. I then either use the SkySafari GoTo or else slip the clutches (I always set dual encoding 'on' in Synscan) and position/hop using Telrad>optical finder>wide angle EP. One nice feature is that SkySafari maintains an indicator of the current scope position on it's map. I've also set up a 7 degree ring to simulate my finder true field (you can also display Telrad rings, or set up and display your own oculars). So if I'm moving to an object with no obvious reference points, I'll pinch to zoom out on the map, swing the scope with one hand and follow the progress towards the target on the phone. Zeroing in on the target might require a hard-copy chart, but I find I'm increasingly using the SkySafari version, zoomed to an appropriate level for use with finder or EP. I have a RACI, but otherwise you can easily invert the SkySafari map L-R and U-D. You can adjust the star limiting magnitude to match what you're seeing. There is a red "night mode" that is implemented better than the one in Synscan, but it still can't control the display of other apps or system messages, so instead I've made a physical red screen for the phone and I use the app in b&w. Once I've definitely identified the target, I'll create a new observation in SkySafari and add some notes. Then repeat until I run out of targets, clear sky or body heat. 

By default, new observations are all assigned to an "unnamed session". I don't usually bother editing this while I'm observing, I leave it until I get back inside (or if I'm too tired, the next day). Then I'll give it a meaningful name, summarize the success (or otherwise), note any new equipment or techniques used, and record the observing conditions (I usually copy met info from two or three different sources and add my own opinion on seeing an transparency in free format; SkySafari lets you record these with each individual observation, but I think it's overkill for me).

If you set up a Livesky account (even the free one), you can link the SkySafari app to it and all your observing lists, sessions and observations get synced automatically. With a paid-for Livesky account you can make edits to the uploaded data, but I've not felt the need.

So, SkySafari has mostly removed the need for me to interact directly with Synscan after initial alignment. The only slight annoyance (nothing to do with SkySafari) is that Synscan will eventually get killed by Android when it's running in background, so I flip it back to foreground every few minutes. iOS probably behaves differently.

 

[Astro_Dad]

Hi Zermelo, thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed account of your experiences here - incredibly useful and will no doubt re read a few times as I get acquainted with the set up. 

Thanks again and clear skies,

AD

[Zermelo]

On 28/03/2021 at 14:33, Zermelo said:

I believe this is done by setting offsets internally within SkySafari rather than issuing updates to Synscan's sky model (which is what a PAE operation does)

I tested this last night, and confirmed that the SkySafari "Align" operation did not add a new star to Synscan's active sky model.  I also found that SkySafari will refuse to perform the align if your current scope direction is too far away from the object you are claiming is the actual target, i.e. there is some maximum value in the permissible internal offsets. If this happens, you need to correct it with a PAE in Synscan, and the update is relayed to Skysafari.

[Stu1smartcookie]

On 28/03/2021 at 15:33, Zermelo said:

(I always set dual encoding 'on'

Do you ever have any issues when the encoders are on?... I haven't touched on this facility yet but i did read that it makes slewing a little less accurate . It would be good to know your experience on this 

Stu 

[Zermelo]

24 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Do you ever have any issues when the encoders are on?... I haven't touched on this facility yet but i did read that it makes slewing a little less accurate . It would be good to know your experience on this 

Stu 

Stu,

it's something that I do want to experiment with in the future.

I've always used the dual encoders to keep the noise down in my (rather too small) back garden, basically 95% push-to and 5% Goto.  But I have read that it can reduce the pointing accuracy.

At the moment I'm still tweaking other aspects my setup routine to see if I can see any consistency in the results (levelling or not, 2-star or 3-star, etc. ). Sometimes pointing accuracy is very good, sometimes less so. Tracking seems to be good regardless of the pointing accuracy. Last night I ended up using star-hopping on the finder to find everything - a useful exercise sometimes, but I would like to understand better why the pointing accuracy isn't always consistent.

[Stu1smartcookie]

I am going to experiment  with the encoders  and check the accuracy. But not tonight as I am trying to set up in EQ mode . 

[SuburbanMak]

I have an AZ GTi which I've been getting good GoTo results from via SynScan Pro App on iOS (used with both Phone & iPad). 

I've got paid versions of both Stellarium and Sky Safari on the phone both of which should in theory connect, I've been through the process of plugging in the IP address & port data and getting nothing in Sky Safari. Stellarium at least tries to connect at this point and I can see it scrolling through a script that details various mounts but it is not working. 

@Zermelo Any knack or tips on the order of doing things that you've gleaned would be most welcome as I'm not finding a lot online on troubleshooting this - would be great to make it work and very encouraging to hear that you have! 

Mark

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by SuburbanMak

[Zermelo]

 

16 minutes ago, SuburbanMak said:

Any knack or tips

I'm on Android Mark, so I don't know if it's the same.

But I did have a connection problem initially, and I had to change the IP setting to 192.168.4.2 and port 11882. 
I had originally used 192.168.4.1, which I think was following some of the documentation, but incorrect.

[SuburbanMak]

3 hours ago, Zermelo said:

 

I'm on Android Mark, so I don't know if it's the same.

But I did have a connection problem initially, and I had to change the IP setting to 192.168.4.2 and port 11882. 
I had originally used 192.168.4.1, which I think was following some of the documentation, but incorrect.

Ah!a! Well that is certainly a lead and something to try, thank you  - let you know how it turns out. 
I’m leaning toward Stellarium recently as the feature that lets you set up an ocular circle of a customisable fov I find really useful for prep. 

[powerlord]

I can recommend eq mode. Especially for photography. I was struggling to get even 10 sec subs on mine.. Seemed like elevation jumps just not smooth.

Moving to eq mode I'm now getting 120 second subs, even with a cursory polar alignment.

However if you are going to manually move it around I suppose eq mode makes it more of a pain.

stu

[Zermelo]

11 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

lets you set up an ocular circle of a customisable fov

SkySafari can do this too (not sure if this is a basic or plus feature) :

"Observe">"Scope Display">"Add FOV indicator"  ...

Then you can either enter a FOV directly in degrees, or else select an ocular from the equipment list that you entered previously ("Observe">"Equipment") and it will calculate a TFOV based on the specs of the EP and OTA.

[SuburbanMak]

19 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

Ah!a! Well that is certainly a lead and something to try, thank you  - let you know how it turns out. 
I’m leaning toward Stellarium recently as the feature that lets you set up an ocular circle of a customisable fov I find really useful for prep. 

Just made this work with Sky Safari I had selected  "SkyWatcher SynScan" and I needed to select "SkyWatcher SynScanLink"   - the cluse is in the LINK but I guess.  This could be fun

[AstroNebulee]

On 30/03/2021 at 14:41, Zermelo said:

I tested this last night, and confirmed that the SkySafari "Align" operation did not add a new star to Synscan's active sky model.  I also found that SkySafari will refuse to perform the align if your current scope direction is too far away from the object you are claiming is the actual target, i.e. there is some maximum value in the permissible internal offsets. If this happens, you need to correct it with a PAE in Synscan, and the update is relayed to Skysafari.

Hi

Sorry to ressurect this thread. I should no more about the AzGti but this issue evades me. 

I was out with my visual set up tonight (giving up dso astrophotography, long story) on my second AzGti mount. I am just using it in left hand az mode with my ST80. I can perform the alignment in the synscan pro app version 2.4.11 easily and connect my mount to sky safari Pro 6 pro and all connects nicely. But I get the same sky safari couldn't align issue. I was using Jupiter as a test and synscan got it bang on but sky safari said Jupiter was more to the left by a fair bit. How can I get sky safari to show the same alignment as synscan does. Its just a lot easier to use sky safari to plan my observing sessions. I am using one android phone to use synscan and sky safari simultaneously. Thank you. 

Edit.. I did find this on the sky safari forum so will try these suggestions too. But my alignment in synscan was all good. 

https://support.simulationcurriculum.com/hc/en-us/articles/115008179327-SkySafari-Error-Your-alignment-target-is-too-far-from-the-telescope-s-actual-position-

Lee 

Edited January 8 by AstroNebulee