Disc and prominence - Daystar Scout SS60-DS 17th March 2021 from Cornwall, UK (plus a request for your help please)

[chops]

Hi All, I was viewing this rather lovely prominence this morning, through high hazy cloud, from South West England, and thought I should get the camera out to capture it.

Like my last post, it's a Daystar Scout SS60 in Ha, except this time I used a better laptop which made the refresh rate higher, making it much easier to both focus and to adjust exposure.

I find prominences in single still images are never quite as good as viewing with the eyes - the detail I could resolve was incredible - a long 'blown' tail from this prominence hovering above it and extending to the east isn't even visible here. A couple of plages etc have come out OK. I have one dust mote I need to deal with on the sensor too, I now realise.

Both Single full Colour shot on a ZWO ASI183MC taken in ASI Studio

1. about 40ms at 150 gain
2. crop of 90ms at 150 gain to better expose the prominence (possibly focus a little off, but it's only a tiny scope?)

I also took lots more video and still, so will try to figure out how to stack and process those in GIMP later.

Any suggestions for stacking AVI and stills, debayering and all that jazz most gratefully receieved please.

[chops]

Here's the same image, but I've spent 45 seconds increasing contrast etc on an iPhone 'post processing'. A much more pleasing, but still very simple single shot image.

 

[mog3768]

A good programe for stacking your avi files is Autostakkert available as a free download

[Nigella Bryant]

I Autostakker3 for stacking and ImPPG for sharpening. I use a Lunt 60mm DS but a Zwo ASI 178mm mono camera.

[chops]

thanks @mog3768 and @Nigella Bryant your images are truly stunning. I didn't have much luck last time I tried Autostakkert 3, but suspect it was my own exposure problems and lack of detail. Do you caputure AVI or stills and is it with ASI Studio, in planetary mode please? Also, what sort of gain on the ASI178 please Nigella? I think my image above was 39ms at 150 gain - it was at this point that the blue line on the histogram dropped down to zero, but I'm a beginner when it comes to imaging, having only done limited DSO work recently (I gave up in the 2000s when trying with an SLRs became to tedious and have only recently started up astrophography again).

[mog3768]

Yes have to agree Novella produces some lovely images.I use a lunt 60 PT 1200bf capture with sharpcap

Usually 600 frames stack in autostakert then copy to Astroart7 to give colour.I use a zwo178mm camera.

You will get there , so much depends on the seeing conditions and of course the sun's activity

[Nigella Bryant]

6 hours ago, chops said:

thanks @mog3768 and @Nigella Bryant your images are truly stunning. I didn't have much luck last time I tried Autostakkert 3, but suspect it was my own exposure problems and lack of detail. Do you caputure AVI or stills and is it with ASI Studio, in planetary mode please? Also, what sort of gain on the ASI178 please Nigella? I think my image above was 39ms at 150 gain - it was at this point that the blue line on the histogram dropped down to zero, but I'm a beginner when it comes to imaging, having only done limited DSO work recently (I gave up in the 2000s when trying with an SLRs became to tedious and have only recently started up astrophography again).

Hi, I try not to use the gain for full disk as it becomes more grainy and 18 frames per second. I use around 150 gain and 70 Frames per second on region of interest in sharpcap. I use planetary mode in stacking in Autostakker3 for full disk and surface for closeups. Hope that helps.

[chops]

@Nigella Bryant, Mog, do you happen to know what I've done wrong here please? It seems to have been caused by poor tracking, across 300 images over about 8 minutes, but I assumed that AutoStakkert's planetary mode would correct for this movement, aligning the disc, in the same way that deep sky stacking works.

I've tried with and without the 'double stack reference' option, but this makes no difference.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by chops
double stack reference & add close up

[Kitsunegari]

Shut off planet mode , turn on surface mode.  enable crop mode.     hold alt and click on the first vertical line in your quality graph,  and change stack size to 8%.

 

tick the "sharpened button"  then 65% blend in raw.          Change the AP size to 104, since you have little to no surface detail on your color camera you need to make the align points bigger. 

 

 

If your video is very shakey, download PIPP, and try to stabalize the video and resave it to .ser format before running it into autostakkert.   (use the prominence as your stabalization anchor) 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Kitsunegari

[Nigella Bryant]

Try alignment points bigger, for full disk I only use the 200 @ 40 stack. Hope this helps.

[chops]

@Kitsunegari and @Nigella Bryant thank you so very much for helping; does it matter that I'm stacking PNGs, not AVIs and that polar alignment is poor? The 334 source images, of about 60Mb each, were captured in groups of 33, over 7 minutes. Polar alignment was only approximate, so the disc (partial disc) drifted across the screen during those 7 minutes. Changing Autostakkert to suggested settings gives a slightly different effect now (please see attached pictures, showing both settings and resultant image) , but I suspect it's still not yet what I should be aiming for : -D

Your advice is hugely appreciated, but am I essentially asking something of AutoStakkert that it cannot do? I note that Surface Stabilisation result is !#@Anchor, is this indicitive of a problem?

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by chops
Surface Stabilisation result !#@Anchor

[Nigella Bryant]

Try it by unclicking the double stack option. Unclick sharpen option. I never use that. I use ImPPG for sharpening after stacking.

[chops]

Thanks @Nigella BryantNigella, I'll try that. I also took a couple of AVIs at the same time and here's that result of that stacked with the previous settings (as per image). It's not processed at all other than, I assume, Autostakkert placing 'conv' in the file name means that AutoStakkert has sharpened it (there's two versions output - one without this appended 'conv' and it's not as sharp as the attached).

Sorry to ask so many questions, but it's great to have the masters available to answer to us newbs. Do you debayer in ImPPG and what are the setting do you'd recommend on something like this please?

Also, do you know what @Kitsunegari means by chanke stack size to 8%? Is this reducing 'frame percentage to stack' from default 50% to 8% in an attempt to select only the highest quality frames?

[Nigella Bryant]

2 hours ago, chops said:

Thanks @Nigella BryantNigella, I'll try that. I also took a couple of AVIs at the same time and here's that result of that stacked with the previous settings (as per image). It's not processed at all other than, I assume, Autostakkert placing 'conv' in the file name means that AutoStakkert has sharpened it (there's two versions output - one without this appended 'conv' and it's not as sharp as the attached).

Sorry to ask so many questions, but it's great to have the masters available to answer to us newbs. Do you debayer in ImPPG and what are the setting do you'd recommend on something like this please?

Also, do you know what @Kitsunegari means by chanke stack size to 8%? Is this reducing 'frame percentage to stack' from default 50% to 8% in an attempt to select only the highest quality frames?

Looking good. You'd be better using lucky imaging with AVI. Yes, stack size down to 8%. I always use a 40% stack for whole disk of a 1000 frame AVI and 20% stack for regions of interest from a file size of 5000. Use the 200 grid though. That's what I do. I guess it's what works for you and others may tweak differently. 

[Kitsunegari]

Okay, you are getting better results now. 

 

First and foremost,  download firecapture and ditch the asi studio program you are using.   You want your video to be recording in .SER format and nothing else.   .avi causes issues.

 

Secondly,  you should be using the lowest exposure time possible with moderate gain, this is how you increase your frames per second.  This is different for every camera so i cannot suggest a setting for your current setup.   What you see on the screen,  in real time is what you will see on the captured file; 

You can always fix it up a bit in imppg or photoshop,  but it is important to experiment with camera settings and firecapture is the most widely used app for imaging.

 

 

Thirdly, the stack size is the option box in the top right corner of auttostakkert with the pink boxes and all those zeros, (number of frames to stack on top)  (percentage of frames to stack on bottom)   it and it does not matter if you have .png  ;  file type here does not matter to autostakkert or imppg;   However, .tif files will be the largest storage space eaters.      

 

Autostakkert automatically sorts all the good frames from the bad ones,  so by Alt+clicking on the vertical line you prevent  all the worst frames from entering your stack.    Then the 8% box,   stacks only 8% of the remaining frames.     

 

More frames is not nesscisarily better.

 

 

 

 

In regards to the alignment box code  !#@Anchor,    this means your video lost tracking.   You can remove all the bad frames by clicking spacebar; and then in the image preview slider bar at the top of the preview window you can move to the next frame.      

 

Some drift is okay in the video file as long as it does not reach the edge of the image preview boarder.    In some instances;  switching crop to expand will allow the picture to accept the drift and create a larger final image but it does not always work

 

[chops]

Thanks again to you both. I've downloaded FireCapture and will use that next time the sun's out (I used a binoviewer for a short while at lunch today).

I also found another AVI I'd taken and tried again with that. The 200 point size, for whatever reason, doesn't work - but 104 does.

Results attached for interest ('conv' / AutoStakkert sharpened version, although it appears output both this and the un-postprocessed version to).

Next task: improving the attached (un-postprocessed / enhanced) image using ImPPG (or GIMP) and debayering it... any hints please? : -D

 

[Nigella Bryant]

You're getting there. Incidentally I use Sharpcap as do others in acquiring solar imaging. Can be imaged in AVI and .ser format. Personally I prefer Sharpcap to Firecapture but it's up to individual taste. 

I solely use ImPPG for sharpening, etc.

[chops]

Thanks Nigella, I’ll try sharpcap too.

I’m amazed at the detail seen from this little and (relatively) inexpensive Ha scope. Viewing a changing prominence is a true pleasure (not that much was visible today) and the detail from some of these stacked frames almost reflects what it’s like to observe (strangely, the other way around from DSO viewing).

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by chops
Grammar

[Nigella Bryant]

4 minutes ago, chops said:

Thanks Nigella, I’ll try sharpcap too.

I’m amazed at the detail seen from this little and (relatively) inexpensive Ha scope. Viewing a changing prominence is a true pleasure (not that much was visible today) and the detail from some of these stacked frames almost reflects what it’s like to observe (strangely, the other way around from DSO viewing).

 

Welcome to the bright side of astronomy, lol. It's addictive. 

[Kitsunegari]

sharpcap costs money and is limited if you do not pay.,  firecapture is free and has no limits,  you can also use it to run multiple cameras simultaneously.   

 

It all boils down to personal taste,    processing is sorta the same.  Everyone has their own methods,  but stacking is typically an industrial standard method.  There is just about only one proper way to do this.

 

Those square patterns will not go away, it is from your camera;   Several ASI brand cameras just do not work for solar imaging.

 

 

[Merlin66]

+1 for FireCapture.

I use it for all my solar imaging.

works well for me.

 

[Nigella Bryant]

£10 for a year's subscription for Sharpcap come on people I can spend that on a bottle of wine, lol 🤣

[callisto]

6 hours ago, Nigella Bryant said:

£10 for a year's subscription for Sharpcap come on people I can spend that on a bottle of wine, lol 🤣

£10 😲...I only pay £6     (Just kidding 😉 )

[Altair8389]

On 17/03/2021 at 23:29, Nigella Bryant said:

I Autostakker3 for stacking and ImPPG for sharpening. I use a Lunt 60mm DS but a Zwo ASI 178mm mono camera.

Lovely images Nigella. May I ask, do you use single stack arrangement for imaging of proms, or do you keep the Double stack setup for all imaging ? I would really like to get a Lunt 60 double stack h-alpha solar scope like yours, but I know its quite expensive. Do you need a barlow or focal reducer to get a full disc. How many images do you need for a full disc ?

 

[Nigella Bryant]

On 26/03/2021 at 17:54, Altair8389 said:

Lovely images Nigella. May I ask, do you use single stack arrangement for imaging of proms, or do you keep the Double stack setup for all imaging ? I would really like to get a Lunt 60 double stack h-alpha solar scope like yours, but I know its quite expensive. Do you need a barlow or focal reducer to get a full disc. How many images do you need for a full disc ?

 

Hi, I don't take off the double stack but I know other people do. I don't use a focal reducer for full disk using a Zwo ASI 178mm camera. I do sometimes use a 2.5x powermate for closer image's but more often than not use just region of interest in the camera settings in firecapture. For full disk I capture 1000 frames with a 40% stack and close up 3000/4000 with a 15/20% stack in autostakker 3. 

Yes, the scope's are expensive but my double stack was second hand so that made it affordable. 

Hope that helps.