Canon lens question

[Ande]

Hi all

I’m about to take the plunge and buy a Canon DSLR.  I have decided, after much deliberation, to settle on the Canon 80D. I am hoping to get into astrophotography with it. I have just purchased a very sturdy tripod, and ball head. And I also have an Ioptron Skyguider Pro winging it’s way towards me.  What I don’t have is a telescope at the moment. I have my eyes on the WO Redcat, but the pandemic has put this in hold for a bit. Which leads me to my question........

I can either purchase the Canon with an 18-55mm IS STM lens, or with an 18-135mm IS USM lens. From what I can gather, neither are particularly well regarded. I’ve read reports of focusing problems being an issue around the infinity mark, and also of the image quality being quite poor. But, which of the two will be the most useful to me while I play the waiting game for a telescope?
 

I realise that the results will probably be disastrous when I factor my own ineptitude into the equation as well, lol. I had considered buying a prime lens of a fairly long focal length for some deep sky stuff, but the good lenses are the price of a decent telescope anyhow. 

[Ande]

Okay, after a bit more digging, it appears that the STM lens is the poorer of the two, but is better for video.  I won’t be prioritising planets anyhow, so the video capabilities will be wasted on me.  So, given that the USM will give the better image AND covers a greater range it seems to be a no-brainer. Sorry for my ramblings, but do expect many more 😄

[nephilim]

1 hour ago, Ande said:

Hi all

I’m about to take the plunge and buy a Canon DSLR.  I have decided, after much deliberation, to settle on the Canon 80D. I am hoping to get into astrophotography with it. I have just purchased a very sturdy tripod, and ball head. And I also have an Ioptron Skyguider Pro winging it’s way towards me.  What I don’t have is a telescope at the moment. I have my eyes on the WO Redcat, but the pandemic has put this in hold for a bit. Which leads me to my question........

I can either purchase the Canon with an 18-55mm IS STM lens, or with an 18-135mm IS USM lens. From what I can gather, neither are particularly well regarded. I’ve read reports of focusing problems being an issue around the infinity mark, and also of the image quality being quite poor. But, which of the two will be the most useful to me while I play the waiting game for a telescope?
 

I realise that the results will probably be disastrous when I factor my own ineptitude into the equation as well, lol. I had considered buying a prime lens of a fairly long focal length for some deep sky stuff, but the good lenses are the price of a decent telescope anyhow. 

Possibly not the way your wanting to go but I've just purchased the Samyang 135mm 2.0 ED UMC which is a well regarded lens for AP, so much so that there's a whole thread dedicated to it on here. I decided on this lens over a scope after reading this thread. I recommend reading this before you decide.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by nephilim

[AbsolutelyN]

Don't go with the 18-135 or 18-55 lenses. Get a prime lens of fixed focal length and fast aperture (f/2.8 or 1.8 etc).  The Samyang 135 is perfect but if out of budget there are some good cheap canon lenses that will do much better than the zooms and are brilliant for general photography too. 

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equipment/used-photo-and-video/used-lenses/used-canon-fit-lenses/canon-ef-50mm-f-1-8-stm/

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equipment/used-photo-and-video/used-lenses/used-canon-fit-lenses/canon-ef-85mm-f-1-8-usm/

 

[Captain Scarlet]

All the above. Can you just buy body-only? Then perhaps as a first lens a 50mm/1.8? I’ve seen some amazing astro shots with it, and it’s useful as a regular terrestrial lens too of course. 
 

Cheers, Magnus

[Ande]

To be honest, there is very little in price between body only, or bundled with the 18-135. I just figured that I won’t be Astro-modding the camera, so the lens might come in handy for day to day use.  I couldn’t find a deal with a decent prime lens.  I shall look at the Samyang thread although  I don’t really want to go down the buying expensive lenses rabbit-hole as I have my heart set on the Redcat. All I really wanted to do is get a bit of practise in with the new equipment before I can get my hands on the scope. Starguiders, guide scopes and equatorial mounts are all new to me, so I have plenty to learn.  I’m coming from a dob, so even polar alignment presents a challenge.

[Ande]

Okay, so I’ve just had a quick peek at the Samyang thread. Wow! It sure does pack a punch.  Now I’m thinking it may be better to cut my teeth on one of these, and forego the telescope for the foreseeable future. Give myself a chance to absorb lots of tricky concepts before it gets too serious.

If I do buy one, I shall be coupling it up to the Canon 80D, and mounting it on the Ioptron Skyguider.  It’s my intention to then purchase an ASIAIR Pro too, and a guiding camera as soon as they are back in stock.  Apart from software, am I missing anything else that will prevent me from getting started? 

[alacant]

Hi

Not sure why you've gone for the 80d. For AP,  all you need is the B setting on M. A basic EOS perhaps with the 18mp sensor instead would leave you plenty to budget for a red cat and a decent lens. The vintage Takumar and Zeiss 135mm lenses are very good and are available for a sensible sum on eBay.

Cheers

[Ande]

14 minutes ago, alacant said:

Hi

Not sure why you've gone for the 80d. For AP,  all you need is the B setting on M. A basic EOS perhaps with the 18mp sensor instead would leave you plenty to budget for a red cat and a decent lens. The vintage Takumar and Zeiss 135mm lenses are very good and are available for a sensible sum on eBay.

Cheers

58 years old, and a dodgy back means I want something fairly high-end so I can benefit from a flip screen. The thought of scrabbling about on my knees trying to catch a glimpse of the screen does not appeal, lol. Then factor in COVID, and the sparse choice on offer right now leads me to the 80D.  

[Alien 13]

The Canon 80D is very nice, welcome to the club.

I am going to a bit out on a limb here but having owned the 50mm f/1.8 STM and the 17-55mm kit lens I would say that the 17-55mm is actually better for AP, the 50mm prime is a nice lens but mine realy needs stopping down to f/4 or f/8 to get decent stars however the kit lens seems OK wide open.

There are lots of old M42 lenses around that will work with an adapter on the Canon, look for 135/200mm takumars but others are worth a punt if the price is right.

Alan

 

[Alien 13]

3 minutes ago, Ande said:

58 years old, and a dodgy back means I want something fairly high-end so I can benefit from a flip screen. The thought of scrabbling about on my knees trying to catch a glimpse of the screen does not appeal, lol. Then factor in COVID, and the sparse choice on offer right now leads me to the 80D.  

The 80D is probably the best Canon APS-C camera even now due to its noise performance, the flip screen is great but not unique unlike the fully remote shooting and setup options via wifi..

Alan

[wxsatuser]

48 minutes ago, Ande said:

Apart from software, am I missing anything else that will prevent me from getting started? 

a clear sky might help 🤔

[nephilim]

I recommend getting a mounting system for it as its a heavy lens, this site provides options dedicated to the 135 lens.

You can pick up a second hand 650D for around £250 leaving cash spare to get it modded if you wanted to go that route, the 650D also has an articulated screen http://www.astrokraken.fr/bracket-system-for-samyang-rokinon-135-f-2-telephoto-lens-a183920490

[alacant]

13 minutes ago, Ande said:

flip screen

Not that essential though. It's far easier operating and viewing using your 'phone.

 

[wxsatuser]

11 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

The Canon 80D is very nice, welcome to the club.

I am going to a bit out on a limb here but having owned the 50mm f/1.8 STM and the 17-55mm kit lens I would say that the 17-55mm is actually better for AP, the 50mm prime is a nice lens but mine realy needs stopping down to f/4 or f/8 to get decent stars however the kit lens seems OK wide open.

There are lots of old M42 lenses around that will work with an adapter on the Canon, look for 135/200mm takumars but others are worth a punt if the price is right.

Alan

 

Yes, that's the main problem.
Most lenses will not be good wide open, there are exceptions like the Samyang 135mm and most of the others are very expensive.

[Alien 13]

2 minutes ago, wxsatuser said:

Yes, that's the main problem.
Most lenses will not be good wide open, there are exceptions like the Samyang 135mm and most of the others are very expensive.

I have a theory that f/4 is the magic number, faster lenses often need stopping down to surprisingly f/4 while canon f/4 L and some slow kit lenses are fine wide open. The Samyang range looks to have broken the rule on my theory though 

Alan

[happy-kat]

I have the EF 85mm f1.8. My version of this lens needs stopping to f4 for astro. I also use a 40mm pancake (I like this lens) through it also needs f4 for astro. When using at night I control and focus the camera 1100d using Android app DSLR Controller on my phone or tablet.

[Ande]

1 hour ago, nephilim said:

I recommend getting a mounting system for it as its a heavy lens, this site provides options dedicated to the 135 lens.

You can pick up a second hand 650D for around £250 leaving cash spare to get it modded if you wanted to go that route, the 650D also has an articulated screen http://www.astrokraken.fr/bracket-system-for-samyang-rokinon-135-f-2-telephoto-lens-a183920490

Is the mounting system a must-have? I can see the obvious benefits, and would happily purchased one.  However, the fact that it is overseas, coupled with a pandemic and Xmas makes the pessimist come out in me. I’m keen to get going this side of Xmas, weather permitting.

[nephilim]

7 minutes ago, Ande said:

Is the mounting system a must-have? I can see the obvious benefits, and would happily purchased one.  However, the fact that it is overseas, coupled with a pandemic and Xmas makes the pessimist come out in me. I’m keen to get going this side of Xmas, weather permitting.

You can always try it without but imo you need the sturdiest setup you can get to reduce flexure & tilt. No harm in trying it without first though.

[Ande]

1 hour ago, Alien 13 said:

The Canon 80D is very nice, welcome to the club.

I am going to a bit out on a limb here but having owned the 50mm f/1.8 STM and the 17-55mm kit lens I would say that the 17-55mm is actually better for AP, the 50mm prime is a nice lens but mine realy needs stopping down to f/4 or f/8 to get decent stars however the kit lens seems OK wide open.

There are lots of old M42 lenses around that will work with an adapter on the Canon, look for 135/200mm takumars but others are worth a punt if the price is right.

Alan

 

Thanks Alan.  You have given me much to think about. I’m off to do a bit of Googling

[Ande]

1 hour ago, Alien 13 said:

The 80D is probably the best Canon APS-C camera even now due to its noise performance, the flip screen is great but not unique unlike the fully remote shooting and setup options via wifi..

Alan

Yes, I did spot that there was the option of WiFi control. In fact, I downloaded the official Canon app last night in eager anticipation  

[Alien 13]

Just now, Ande said:

Yes, I did spot that there was the option of WiFi control. In fact, I downloaded the official Canon app last night in eager anticipation  

The Canon remote app is very handy for lots of things like wildlife too, you can view the liveview screen remotely/adjust settings and focus then shoot either stills or video from either phone/tablet or PC with the EOS utility software. 

Alan

[Ande]

Excellent Alan.  Sounds perfect. I have just put my order in for the Canon 80D, which is arriving on Saturday.  I’ll have to content myself with the kit lens initially, as I may struggle sourcing a Samyang this side of Xmas. eBay isn’t an option as I’m working away from home, and they do not allow for alternative delivery points. 

[Ande]

After much deliberation I have put an order in for the Samyang lens. All being well, it should be in my eager mitts by tomorrow. Just hoping that I get one that can achieve infinity focus, as a few seem to have received ones that fall just short. Not sure how many of these people have had a filter removed from their camera though.
 

I watched a few YouTube videos last night, and the Samyang seems incredibly well lauded even by regular, terrestrial photographers. So I should be able to get much more use out of it hopefully. If it performs as well as I hope, then I might even shelve the telescope for imaging notion altogether. The Samyang would certainly be a lot simpler, and more portable. Just need to find the best way of attaching a guide scope, but that’s a way off at the moment. 

 

Huge thanks to everyone who chipped in. It really is much appreciated.

[nephilim]

33 minutes ago, Ande said:

After much deliberation I have put an order in for the Samyang lens. All being well, it should be in my eager mitts by tomorrow. Just hoping that I get one that can achieve infinity focus, as a few seem to have received ones that fall just short. Not sure how many of these people have had a filter removed from their camera though.
 

I watched a few YouTube videos last night, and the Samyang seems incredibly well lauded even by regular, terrestrial photographers. So I should be able to get much more use out of it hopefully. If it performs as well as I hope, then I might even shelve the telescope for imaging notion altogether. The Samyang would certainly be a lot simpler, and more portable. Just need to find the best way of attaching a guide scope, but that’s a way off at the moment. 

 

Huge thanks to everyone who chipped in. It really is much appreciated.

A guide scope can be attached using the mount I posted earlier, I'll be using my Skywatcher Evoguide ED50 & ZWO ASI 120MM-S as my guide setup.