Tal 2m?

[Stu1smartcookie]

I am going through a " what can i buy that is out of the ordinary " phase ( which seems to happen far too frequently for my long suffering wife's liking ! 

I have come across a Russian made Tal 2M ... i say its a Tal 2M , the seller said it was 1200 long and has a 6" mirror , but i can only go on the one photo which was displayed on the listing . I remember watching a VLog from " Astro Biscuit" who was very keen to acquire one of these scopes as they are built like a tank and ,  although i think they have  a spherical mirror, produce tack sharp views . Astro Biscuit bought the wrong scope ( the short tube version ) but i wonder if anyone else on here has any knowledge of these scopes . The mount looks a complete beast ! I am going to view the scope at the weekend .. but any tips on what to look out for in this model would be much appreciated . By the way , the price is ... £80 !!! which i think is amazing ... but i am prepared to be shot down in flames if others disagree 

Any thoughts on this , most welcome . 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Stu1smartcookie

[Peter Drew]

I've had a Tal2 in the past, it gave excellent views, I doubt whether the mirror was spherical although the Tal1 might well have been, even so, the Tal1 also gave great views.  The "M" should denote a motor drive.  If all is in reasonable order £80 is a steal.    🙂

[DaveL59]

TAL are extremely robust and at that price a bargain. Best check it has all the bits and the condition of the mirrors etc. Also check the counterweight can be freed up and moved as a recent post on here about trying to un-stick it. Likely fixable but better if it already works as it should. Also that the motor has the transformer and runs. Bonus points too if it has the wooden shipping cases 🙂 

Cosmetics like paint are easily redone, I overhauled my little TAL-M earlier this year, may do the same for the TAL-1 at some stage too.

edit - there is a pdf manual for the TAL's on here if you do a search, which should give you a guide to what would have come with it.

Edited November 9, 2020 by DaveL59

[Stu1smartcookie]

Thanks Peter and Dave for the replies .. I am on YouTube lol , looking at Tal stuff .. there are a couple of Russian videos but that’s ok ( my wife is Russian ) looking at the photo it all seems complete .. one thing I did read was that it plugs directly into the mains .. Ie AC .. not that it’s a problem as I would be using it from the garden .. much too heavy to move the mount any distance .. I will upload a couple of photos 

[DaveL59]

Ah that's handy then, a bit like when I bought an Italian car and the then OH happened to be Italian, not that she was the reason as I'd had Alfa's well before meeting her 🙂

Looks pretty good from the pics, that TAL finder is a gem too, I've 3 of those now lol. A thought re the motor drive, depending on it working etc, @markse68 did rebuild his with a different motor and powered it off a drill battery IIRC, a search may well find that thread if its something you need to do.

Know what you mean about lugging it far, the TAL-1 isn't too bad to just pick up assembled and carry out of the conservatory but then it is smaller/lighter than the 2 would be. The good side tho is the mount and feet easily detach from the pillar if you wanted to stick it all in the car for a trip and likely collimation will remain rock solid and not need adjusting once you get there.

[Stu1smartcookie]

1 hour ago, DaveL59 said:

and likely collimation will remain rock solid and not need adjusting once you get there.

Yea I also read  that the collimation holds very well on these scopes .. you know I was actually looking for a portable GOTO mount before I saw this !!!! Crazy how this hobby consumes us and makes us do irrational things . For £80 .. as long as it’s still for sale , I can’t go far wrong .

Edited November 9, 2020 by Stu1smartcookie

[DaveL59]

I've 3 TAL's now, initially I was after a TAL-1 but missed it. Then a TAL-M came up in its original box and reading a review decided I'd have it. Always liked the idea of having a frac so along came the TAL100RS... Then looking to locate an older 25mm Plossl for the M (older 32mm russian fit) a TAL-1 of the right vintage came up locally, £60. I bought that from its first owner just for the one eyepiece lol. I figured I could either sell it on or overhaul it, managed to get a TAL 1.25 inch focuser for it so shifted the mirror up the tube to achieve focus and wow, it's as good as my SW130 and way more stable. So it's remained and at some stage I'll overhaul it as the SloMo controls could do with some attention. Slippery slope for sure 😉 

[Peter Drew]

I currently have a Tal1 and a 100R,  they seem to come up at such irresistable prices!       🙂

[Stu1smartcookie]

The more I read the more I am interested in this scope . In no way am I confident enough to overhaul the mount or scope and to be honest it may not be in the best condition although I suspect it’s been well looked after , but the fact that it’s such a robust scope with great history is enough to make me at least give it a go. 

[DaveL59]

They are nicely (simply) put together, astrobaby did a guide for the TAL-1 where she did a total restoration, tho the motor unit will add some more complexity perhaps.

http://www.astro-baby.com/TAL Telescope Rebuild/TAL Telescope Restoration.htm

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

Seems to be an enthusiasts scope for sure .. because of its focal length I’m assuming it’s best for planetary and lunar ... but hopefully good enough for some deep sky stuff .

[Stu1smartcookie]

24 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

I currently have a Tal1 and a 100R,  they seem to come up at such irresistable prices!       🙂

Why are they so “cheap “ they are made to such a high standard so I am surprised they don’t command higher prices .

[sloz1664]

I've owned the Tal1, Tal2 in the past and are robust scopes with quality optics. My current Tal 200K is a keeper though......

Steve

 

[DaveL59]

1 minute ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Why are they so “cheap “ they are made to such a high standard so I am surprised they don’t command higher prices .

I think the TAL-1 cost around £250 when the first owner bought it but they are quite old now or at least this one is, 1995 vintage. They were sold low at the time I expect as Russia needed income so we all benefited from that. Of course now China is the main supplier and the factory in Russia making these has moved back to military stuff I believe.

[markse68]

Buy it!

That's seriously cheap- less than half what I paid for my Tal-2. I think they are spherical but long enough for it not to matter- Tal did the short tube 150p with a parabolic mirror which is very desirable now I think or at least seems to go for more than I'm willing to pay   They are lovely scopes indeed and ooze solid engineering but are very heavy and awkward to move around- very different to the Tal-1 (which is also pretty well built! It's amazing how the seemingly small change in aperture really scales everything up!

The Tal-2 mount has proper ball races and is a much more substantial unit- I almost ruined mine trying to disassemble it as one of the bearings was crunchy- bit more involved than the plain bearings of the TAL-1

Dave, have you really got 3 of the 50mm finders? 😲 Very nice finders they are too!

The motor drive is 12V AC I think- there's a mains powered transformer box with a long lead so you can leave the mains bit safely indoors though best be careful with old mains stuff like that! I did change mi]y TAL-1M to a stepper drive with new reduction gear train but it was quite involved- like Dave said it runs off a Makita battery for portability. Haven't used in ages for looking at the stars but it has come in handy as a binocular alignment rig 😆

Mark

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by markse68

[DaveL59]

Hi Mark

yep one came on each of the TAL-1 and 100RS and then I bought another that looks to have the balsam failing. Think they are 35/38mm rather than 50 tho but they are optically excellent. That "spare" I bought is not in a 50mm finder holder awaiting me sorting how best to fit the finder shoe onto the old 3-inch vintage scope but could also be used on the SW130 if I wanted to. Did the TAL-2 come with a 50mm finder then?

Hadn't realised the difference in bearings, makes sense tho being a heavier scope it has to carry. Twas proper engineering back in those days huh 🙂 

[markse68]

50 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

Hi Mark

yep one came on each of the TAL-1 and 100RS and then I bought another that looks to have the balsam failing. Think they are 35/38mm rather than 50 tho but they are optically excellent. That "spare" I bought is not in a 50mm finder holder awaiting me sorting how best to fit the finder shoe onto the old 3-inch vintage scope but could also be used on the SW130 if I wanted to. Did the TAL-2 come with a 50mm finder then?

Hadn't realised the difference in bearings, makes sense tho being a heavier scope it has to carry. Twas proper engineering back in those days huh 🙂 

Hi Dave, ah- yes the TAL-1 has a 30mm but the TAL 2 a 50- thought the 100RS had the 50 too though? The 50 is very nice- has much finer cross hairs etching with a gap in the middle- that's the major downside apart form less bright image on the 30- the crosshairs are too thick and completely block the star you're trying to align on. But it is v nice also  The Tal2 mount is held together on very fine large diameter threads and then they went and put pointy grub screws to lock them- damaging the threads and making unscrewing them a pain- took quite some effort to get mine apart and I damaged the paint quite badly holding it in a vice- doh It's still in pieces actually lol- I bought a new bearing for it but never got round to putting it all back together... 

Mark

[Stu1smartcookie]

11 hours ago, markse68 said:

The motor drive is 12V AC I think- there's a mains powered transformer box with a long lead so you can leave the mains bit safely indoors

Hi Mark , 

I have a dual mains socket outside ... not sure if the motor even works ,as the scope has been standing idle for some time .. Hopefully going to view it at the weekend 

[Stu1smartcookie]

Was watching a YouTube vid last night from Astronomy & Nature (who used to have their business about 100 yards from where i work ) . He had about a dozen of the mounts , without the tubes . 

Its reminding me of  Only Fools And Horses  when Del buys the Russian VCR's ... ( which were seemingly built for tank warfare ..." no bits of plastic to fall off ") lol 

The video was a few years ago , sadly , so i doubt he has any spare parts for the mounts . 

[DaveL59]

I'd imagine they are a bit like hen's teeth these days 🙂

I recall reading somewhere tho that there is/was a potential contact either back at the manufacturer or linked to who used to be able to supply the motor gear parts. 

[DaveL59]

On 09/11/2020 at 23:17, markse68 said:

Hi Dave, ah- yes the TAL-1 has a 30mm but the TAL 2 a 50- thought the 100RS had the 50 too though? The 50 is very nice- has much finer cross hairs etching with a gap in the middle- that's the major downside apart form less bright image on the 30- the crosshairs are too thick and completely block the star you're trying to align on. But it is v nice also  The Tal2 mount is held together on very fine large diameter threads and then they went and put pointy grub screws to lock them- damaging the threads and making unscrewing them a pain- took quite some effort to get mine apart and I damaged the paint quite badly holding it in a vice- doh It's still in pieces actually lol- I bought a new bearing for it but never got round to putting it all back together... 

Mark

argh, so a tal 8x50 finder popped up on the bay just now so of course I just had to hit the buy button, thanks Mark! 😛

According to the pics it has a circle reticule rather than cross-hairs. Will be interesting to see what its like when it arrives

[markse68]

ooh nice find Dave- it’s a lovely finder indeed  What’s the brown thing in between the mounting rings? 🤔

Mark

Edited November 19, 2020 by markse68

[DaveL59]

3 minutes ago, markse68 said:

ooh nice find Dave- it’s a lovely finder indeed  What’s the brown thing in between the mounting rings? 🤔

Mark

not exactly sure, perhaps a mounting for the OTA to form the shoe?

Hoping it'll fit the TAL100RS directly, if not I'll find a way to do it 😉 For sure they don't come up often so it was more reflex than think about it first lol. Prodded too by missing on a ziess dodecorum 12x50 bino the other day that went while I thought about it and had gone when I'd decided "yes" a minute or two later, doh!

[markse68]

You have enough binoculars dave 🤦‍♂️😂😉

The big Tal finder on the Tal-2 I have has a nice dovetail shoe bracket it slides into mounted to the OTA- hopefully that’s what the brown bits are but they don’t look very familiar. It’s a bit of a weird design though as you’d think it’d be quick release but only if you’re quick with a screw driver and don’t loose the locking screw in the process 🤦‍♂️

Mark

edit- 😬 you missed a bit of a bargain there Dave 😞

Edited November 19, 2020 by markse68

[DaveL59]

yep re the bino count but that Zeiss would so have been worth it, oh well...

For the finder, guess I'll know when it arrives what the mystery part is, will let you know. Can you not swap the screws for thumbscrews to make it quick(er) release on your one?