Complete Novice Seeks Some Advice

[Jm1973]

Hi SGL.

I am a complete and utter neophyte to this hobby. I have spent the last couple of weeks researching different mounts, scopes, etc. and 100% decided I wanted to buy a 6-8" Dobsonian... probably a Skywatcher, but then on a whim (as I saw it on Sale cheaply a few miles away) I bought a Skywatcher SKP1145EQ1 which is a 114/500 equatorial mounted scope. 

I only paid £20 for it, so if I can't get on  with it I've not wasted much money. However, the only eyepiece it came with was a Skywatcher Super 25 Wide Angle Long Eye Relief. With a focal length of 500, if my maths serves me, this will only give a magnification of x20. I'm not sure how much I will be able to see with this.

I think I probably need to but a more high powered eyepiece, maybe a 10mm or 6mm in order to get reasonable views of the planets. I have seen the equivalent 10mm Skywatcher lens going for about 13 quid. Or should I consider getting a more expensive one, as I imagine I will upgrade the scope at some point, so why buy twice.

Also.. should I go for a 6mm, as opposed to a 10mm to get better planetary views? One caveat is I am 47, and I know that the old you get the more issues you run into with pupil size etc.

Any advice, or general thoughts, welcome.

~John

[Dantooine]

That eyepiece would give you a magnification of 25x. As you only paid £20 for the setup I would use what you have got to find your way around the sky while you save for the dobsonian. 

[Jm1973]

22 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

That eyepiece would give you a magnification of 25x. As you only paid £20 for the setup I would use what you have got to find your way around the sky while you save for the dobsonian. 

Thanks for the reply. I thought the magnification was calculated by dividing the focal length into the diameter of the eyepiece, so 500/25 = 20?

Or have I missed something? Genuine question, I am totally new to this.

Your advice seems sound. I have no idea what x25 (or x20 for that matter) will allow me to see properly. The skies are cloudy at present or I'd be out there finding out!

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, Jm1973 said:

Thanks for the reply. I thought the magnification was calculated by dividing the focal length into the diameter of the eyepiece, so 500/25 = 20?

Or have I missed something? Genuine question, I am totally new to this.

Your advice seems sound. I have no idea what x25 (or x20 for that matter) will allow me to see properly. The skies are cloudy at present or I'd be out there finding out!

You are correct, x20 it is.

I would agree that going for your original choice of 6” or 8” dob is likely to be more satisfying in the long run, but hey, £20 for what you have got is not a problem!

x20 is a low power, widefield view a little like high powered binoculars. You would be able to see open clusters such as the Pleiades nicely with it, and it will make a decent finder eyepiece.

It is easy to fritter away funds on things that seem like bargains, when the best course of action is actually to buy fewer, higher quality items. I would decide what scope you intend to use eg stick with this one or buy the dob, and then decide what budget you might have for eyepieces.

Decent eyepieces don’t have to be earth shatteringly expensive, but it is well worth spending a reasonable sum on them. The BST Starguider range are both good quality and good value for example.

Having a range of low, mid and high power, up to say x200 in a 6 or 8” dob is worthwhile; planets will look good at x150 to x200 ish depending on conditions, other objects are framed better at lower powers to.

[Dantooine]

33 minutes ago, Jm1973 said:

Thanks for the reply. I thought the magnification was calculated by dividing the focal length into the diameter of the eyepiece, so 500/25 = 20?

Or have I missed something? Genuine question, I am totally new to this.

Your advice seems sound. I have no idea what x25 (or x20 for that matter) will allow me to see properly. The skies are cloudy at present or I'd be out there finding out!

🤪 I read your 25 mil as a 20 for some daft reason. My maths isn’t really that bad but obviously my reading is 🧐

[Jm1973]

HI

21 minutes ago, Stu said:

You are correct, x20 it is.

Ah, that's good. I have learnt something then.

23 minutes ago, Stu said:

I would agree that going for your original choice of 6” or 8” dob is likely to be more satisfying in the long run, but hey, £20 for what you have got is not a problem!

I'll be honest. The only reason I bought this is because I've been so excited about getting a scope for the last few weeks. I also realise it could take weeks to wait for the right scope, at the right price, in the right place to turn up, and I just wanted to get started. Hopefully this will give me the patience to wait for the right 6-8" Dob to come along. Also it gives me an idea of how much I like lugging kit in and out of the house, and how easy it is to find somewhere to store this stuff. And whether I actually enjoy the reality of the hobby, as much as the idea of it. Etc., etc.

 

27 minutes ago, Stu said:

x20 is a low power, widefield view a little like high powered binoculars. You would be able to see open clusters such as the Pleiades nicely with it, and it will make a decent finder eyepiece.

Well that's good. I will enjoy trying to find them!

28 minutes ago, Stu said:

It is easy to fritter away funds on things that seem like bargains, when the best course of action is actually to buy fewer, higher quality items. I would decide what scope you intend to use eg stick with this one or buy the dob, and then decide what budget you might have for eyepieces.

This is a tester really. If I start enjoying myself I'll buy a dob. I have the money, uit's just I don't want to buy it and find I am bored in a month. I wonder is there an eyepiece I could buy that would be useful for both the 114/500 and a 6-8" dobsonian?

30 minutes ago, Stu said:

Decent eyepieces don’t have to be earth shatteringly expensive, but it is well worth spending a reasonable sum on them. The BST Starguider range are both good quality and good value for example.

Having a range of low, mid and high power, up to say x200 in a 6 or 8” dob is worthwhile; planets will look good at x150 to x200 ish depending on conditions, other objects are framed better at lower powers to.

Thanks for the advice. This is all very useful, and appreciated.

[Jm1973]

Apologies. I see to have muddled my quotes somewhat.

[Dantooine]

1 minute ago, Jm1973 said:

Apologies. I see to have muddled my quotes somewhat.

8 or 9mm would be good in both. Do your maths thing and you will get the correct answer 👍 

BST 8mm 60deg is £47

ES 8.8mm 82 deg is £131

both would be good. The 82deg would keep things in the eyepiece a little longer if you go for a dobsonian but as always it come down to individual budgets. 
 

the fun is the thrill of the chase. 

[Gfamily]

For £20 that's a bargain. Have you looked at Jupiter and Saturn? It's surprising what you can see with 20x.

The benefit of low magnification is a relatively wide field of view, which will be great for looking at open clusters.

I'd suggest continuing to consider getting a Dobsonian scope, there will be more you can see that will complement what you can see with your bargain scope.

Rather than looking at getting a new eyepiece as such, you might consider getting a 2x Barlow lens, that will effectively give you a 12.5 mm eyepiece view with your existing one.

It can be used with other eyepieces as well, so it's an affordable easy of giving you a wider variety of magnifications.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Gfamily

[Jm1973]

11 minutes ago, Gfamily said:

For £20 that's a bargain. Have you looked at Jupiter and Saturn? It's surprising what you can see with 20x.

The benefit of low magnification is a relatively wide field of view, which will be great for looking at open clusters.

I'd suggest continuing to consider getting a Dobsonian scope, there will be more you can see that will complement what you can see with your bargain scope.

Rather than looking at getting a new eyepiece as such, you might consider getting a 2x Barlow lens, that will effectively give you a 12.5 mm eyepiece view with your existing one.

It can be used with other eyepieces as well, so it's an affordable easy of giving you a wider variety of magnifications.

I literally picked it up today, and the weather is awful, so I've not looked at anything except my neighbour's chimney so far.

I was thinking about a barlow actually. How do they work? Do they fit between the eyepiece and the scope?

 

[AstroNebulee]

48 minutes ago, Jm1973 said:

I literally picked it up today, and the weather is awful, so I've not looked at anything except my neighbour's chimney so far.

I was thinking about a barlow actually. How do they work? Do they fit between the eyepiece and the scope?

 

Hi jm

You got a bargain there for £20 they are going for a lot more on the Internet and skywatcher are a great make, yes the barlow goes between the scope and eyepiece and will double the magnification so your 25mm ep will become a 12.5mm ep,clear skies when they arrive and it won't long until your bitten by the bug 😊

Edited August 15, 2020 by LeeHore7

[Jm1973]

29 minutes ago, LeeHore7 said:

Hi jm

You got a bargain there for £20 they are going for a lot more on the Internet and skywatcher are a great make, yes the barlow goes between the scope and eyepiece and will double the magnification so your 25mm ep will become a 12.5mm ep,clear skies when they arrive and it won't long until your bitten by the bug 😊

Hey thanks for the reply.

I've just been looking and it seems like you can get x3 Barlows too. Is it worth getting one of those?

As I understand it, the maximum magnification this scope should use is 114x2 = x228.

And if the 25mm eyepiece is giving x20 now, it seems x60 is well within the bounds of what is usable.

And if I bought a 10mm eyepiece as well, that would give x50 magnification normally, and x3 would be x150 so again within limits.

Or are there other reasons for sticking to a x2 Barlow as oposed to a x3?

And can you recommend a decent but affordable brand of Barlow?

Thanks!

Edited August 15, 2020 by Jm1973

[AstroNebulee]

8 minutes ago, Jm1973 said:

Hey thanks for the reply.

I've just been looking and it seems like you can get x3 Barlows too. Is it worth getting one of those?

As I understand it, the maximum magnification this scope should use is 114x2 = x228.

And if the 25mm eyepiece is giving x20 now, it seems x60 is well within the bounds of what is usable.

And if I bought a 10mm eyepiece as well, that would give x50 magnification normally, and x3 would be x150 so again within limits.

Or are there other reasons for sticking to a x2 Barlow as oposed to a x3?

Hi

Someone with more experience would offer better advice than I as only been into this hobby since April, the maximum useful magnification isn't always as high as its stated in my opinion so will be lower, a x3 barlow on your 25mm will give you a just over 6mm ep equivalent, but this may prove to much and struggle to get good focus as the higher magnification the less room for focus there is, but could be wrong, if I were you I'd play around with the scope before buying more eps, but replacing the stock 25mm for a better quality one and a  good quality 2x barlow would be good I think, First light optics are a good website and good choice and see where you go ftom there, but I could ge wrong with my advice but that's what I'd do and we all have different opinions. Clear skies 

[Jm1973]

6 minutes ago, LeeHore7 said:

Hi

Someone with more experience would offer better advice than I as only been into this hobby since April, the maximum useful magnification isn't always as high as its stated in my opinion so will be lower, a x3 barlow on your 25mm will give you a just over 6mm ep equivalent, but this may prove to much and struggle to get good focus as the higher magnification the less room for focus there is, but could be wrong, if I were you I'd play around with the scope before buying more eps, but replacing the stock 25mm for a better quality one and a  good quality 2x barlow would be good I think, First light optics are a good website and good choice and see where you go ftom there, but I could ge wrong with my advice but that's what I'd do and we all have different opinions. Clear skies 

Well you know more than I do, and I appreciate your input. I'll start looking at Barlows I think.

[PlanetGazer]

Hi JM

£20 well spent. It will serve good as a starter telescope, to test your eagerness of the hobby.

If you find yourself getting into the hobby, start by buying a 2x barlow and 5 mm EP which will serve you on the long run, the barlow with the 25mm you already have will give you 12.5mm, which would cover the 10mm range.

If the 25mm EP you have is the stock Skywatcher, I would keep it and rely on it, the 10mm stock ones are not that good.

I use the xCelx celestron 5mm, which give good planetary and lunar views. Not always though, the sky conditions have to be stable.

Edit: Consider buying a used 8 inch dob, the sweet spot

Edited August 16, 2020 by PlanetGazer

[Jm1973]

On 16/08/2020 at 14:06, PlanetGazer said:

Hi JM

£20 well spent. It will serve good as a starter telescope, to test your eagerness of the hobby.

If you find yourself getting into the hobby, start by buying a 2x barlow and 5 mm EP which will serve you on the long run, the barlow with the 25mm you already have will give you 12.5mm, which would cover the 10mm range.

If the 25mm EP you have is the stock Skywatcher, I would keep it and rely on it, the 10mm stock ones are not that good.

I use the xCelx celestron 5mm, which give good planetary and lunar views. Not always though, the sky conditions have to be stable.

Edit: Consider buying a used 8 inch dob, the sweet spot

Thanks for the reply.

I've just bought an Ostara 2x Barlow and 6" EP for £40. Should be arriving tomorrow.

I am definitely keeping an eye out for a used 8" dob. I'm just trying to work out if I've got enough room for it.

Do you think keeping a telescope in a concservatory, that gets very hot on sunny days, will potentially be a problem for the optics?

[Pixies]

26 minutes ago, Jm1973 said:

Thanks for the reply.

I've just bought an Ostara 2x Barlow and 6" EP for £40. Should be arriving tomorrow.

I am definitely keeping an eye out for a used 8" dob. I'm just trying to work out if I've got enough room for it.

Do you think keeping a telescope in a concservatory, that gets very hot on sunny days, will potentially be a problem for the optics?

A few conservatory storers here

[Jm1973]

Thanks Pixies. That's useful to know. Probably the only place I'll have room for it, and also won't have to carry it too far to get it outside.

[AstroNebulee]

9 hours ago, Jm1973 said:

Thanks for the reply.

I've just bought an Ostara 2x Barlow and 6" EP for £40. Should be arriving tomorrow.

I am definitely keeping an eye out for a used 8" dob. I'm just trying to work out if I've got enough room for it.

Do you think keeping a telescope in a concservatory, that gets very hot on sunny days, will potentially be a problem for the optics?

Hi

Sometimes they say on various places not to store in a conservatory, but if it's the only place and like the article pixies posted there are a lot of conservatory stores, it's got to be, maybe put a space foil blanket over it that would reduce the heat and reflect the sunlight and heat back off the scope. 

[PlanetGazer]

22 hours ago, Jm1973 said:

Thanks for the reply.

I've just bought an Ostara 2x Barlow and 6" EP for £40. Should be arriving tomorrow.

I am definitely keeping an eye out for a used 8" dob. I'm just trying to work out if I've got enough room for it.

Do you think keeping a telescope in a concservatory, that gets very hot on sunny days, will potentially be a problem for the optics?

Not sure exactly, I store it in my office, heat over here will ruin anything , yes it takes place in my office, but I would love to look at it everyday to remind myself to get it used. Not to mention that indoors reduces the amount of dust. 

 

You will figure the perfect spot for it once you buy it. You shouldn't be in a rush anyway. Enjoy whatever equipment you have at the moment, it's only a gate to the amazing heavens above

 

Clear Skies!

[Jm1973]

16 hours ago, LeeHore7 said:

Hi

Sometimes they say on various places not to store in a conservatory, but if it's the only place and like the article pixies posted there are a lot of conservatory stores, it's got to be, maybe put a space foil blanket over it that would reduce the heat and reflect the sunlight and heat back off the scope. 

That's a good idea.

[Jm1973]

3 hours ago, PlanetGazer said:

Not sure exactly, I store it in my office, heat over here will ruin anything , yes it takes place in my office, but I would love to look at it everyday to remind myself to get it used. Not to mention that indoors reduces the amount of dust. 

 

You will figure the perfect spot for it once you buy it. You shouldn't be in a rush anyway. Enjoy whatever equipment you have at the moment, it's only a gate to the amazing heavens above

 

Clear Skies!

I'm struggling to stick with what I've got for now... the temptation to price up other kit is overwhelming.

I'm wondering whether it's worth shelling out for a mak or an sct now.

[RT65CB-SWL]

11 hours ago, Jm1973 said:

I'm struggling to stick with what I've got for now... the temptation to price up other kit is overwhelming.

I'm wondering whether it's worth shelling out for a mak or an sct now.

Hi @Jm1973 and welcome to SGL. 

Mak’s & SCT’s are great for lunar and planetary views, though they do have a few downsides...

• they are notorious dew magnets so a dew shield is a must have.
• they require a minimum of thirty minutes to acclimatise to the outside air temperature.
• narrow field of view for some DSO targets.
• long focal length = long exposure time if planning on astro-imaging now or later.

Some of the upsides are... 

• short and compact.
• great space saver.
• smaller ones can be used for other outdoor activities/pursuits.

Below is an image of my Celestron C6/SCT-xlt and a ‘re-modded’ Meade ETX105.

Since this image, I have sold the Vixen GP, and I now use either an AOK-AYO or Tele-Optic Giro.

 

Another image of my ETX105 in its ‘portable/lightweight’ guise which is also airplane cabin friendly. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Philip R

[Jm1973]

Wow! They look great. Something that would fit on a plane as hand luggage would be great.

I'm still thinking maybe I'll get a Dob to start with, as they are fairly cheap and see how I get on with that first.